Several reports indicate that early and pre-production models have zoom creep WHILE a newer version does NOT on both smooth and tight mode. It seems Sony fixed this issue for latter version as several people reported this on Facebook.
I guess it was a lens issue and I was right all along.
Not true. My friend just received his from the latest batch. Creeps.
Another forum member on a different forum had one on release day that doesn't creep on Smooth.
It is a tolerance issue. If you are someone who likes to zoom while shooting (say like a BIF acquiring zoomed out and zooming in as it approaches) then you will actually want to get one that creeps on Smooth.
It is still easy to zoom this lens on the Tight setting if it is a lens that creeps. But it is better on Smooth if you are actively zooming a lot during shooting. I haven't tried a lens that doesn't creep on Smooth but I can only assume it will be tighter on both settings so the Tight may become mostly useless and the Smooth won't really be smooth enough. I don't know for sure until I try one.
I'd also wonder if those that have a lens that doesn't creep out of the box will have creep after a few months of use?? The only worry I would have if a creeping lens on smooth would eventually creep on tight. That would be a flaw IMO. But only time will tell on that one.
I'd also point out that if people who haven't used the new lens are thinking along the lines of the "old" 100-400's tightening ring it is not similar to how this one behaves.
The old 100-400 on tight is almost impossible to zoom. The new 100-400 on Tight is a better lens to zoom than the old 100-400 on Smoothest. The only nice thing on the old one is it is not two fixed settings but a range of tightness along the ring. But I always said that the old one is not smooth enough on the smooth setting. This new lens is smooth enough...although in a perfect world the Smooth setting on the new lens would be even smoother like the 200-600. Of course it would creep even faster if that were the case.
arbitrage wrote:
Not true. My friend just received his from the latest batch. Creeps.
Another forum member on a different forum had one on release day that doesn't creep on Smooth.
It is a tolerance issue. If you are someone who likes to zoom while shooting (say like a BIF acquiring zoomed out and zooming in as it approaches) then you will actually want to get one that creeps on Smooth.
It is still easy to zoom this lens on the Tight setting if it is a lens that creeps. But it is better on Smooth if you are actively zooming a lot during shooting. I haven't tried a lens that doesn't creep on Smooth but I can only assume it will be tighter on both settings so the Tight may become mostly useless and the Smooth won't really be smooth enough. I don't know for sure until I try one.
I'd also wonder if those that have a lens that doesn't creep out of the box will have creep after a few months of use?? The only worry I would have if a creeping lens on smooth would eventually creep on tight. That would be a flaw IMO. But only time will tell on that one.
I'd also point out that if people who haven't used the new lens are thinking along the lines of the "old" 100-400's tightening ring it is not similar to how this one behaves.
The old 100-400 on tight is almost impossible to zoom. The new 100-400 on Tight is a better lens to zoom than the old 100-400 on Smoothest. The only nice thing on the old one is it is not two fixed settings but a range of tightness along the ring. But I always said that the old one is not smooth enough on the smooth setting. This new lens is smooth enough...although in a perfect world the Smooth setting on the new lens would be even smoother like the 200-600. Of course it would creep even faster if that were the case....Show more →
I’m sensing a bit of copium being administered by folks who presume that zoom creep is just fine. If it were intentional on Sony’s part, it would affect all units equally. If the reports that it only affects some are accurate, then we’re looking at something that Sony must fix, one way or the other.
I still think it sounds like a great lens, and I intend to buy one.
While the zoom movement is suboptimal in comparison to the 200-600 and the OM 150-400, there is nothing Sony needs to fix in the units it has produced. There is quite a bit of glass and metal to move in the 100-400, as there is with external telephoto zooms. AFAIK they all have a zoom tighten/lock capability to throttle or prevent inadvertent zoom movement when the lenses are not in a horizontal position. Most reviewers have discussed the 100-400's zoom movement characteristics since day one of the lens being made public.
arbitrage wrote:
Not true. My friend just received his from the latest batch. Creeps.
Another forum member on a different forum had one on release day that doesn't creep on Smooth.
It is a tolerance issue. If you are someone who likes to zoom while shooting (say like a BIF acquiring zoomed out and zooming in as it approaches) then you will actually want to get one that creeps on Smooth.
It is still easy to zoom this lens on the Tight setting if it is a lens that creeps. But it is better on Smooth if you are actively zooming a lot during shooting. I haven't tried a lens that doesn't creep on Smooth but I can only assume it will be tighter on both settings so the Tight may become mostly useless and the Smooth won't really be smooth enough. I don't know for sure until I try one.
I'd also wonder if those that have a lens that doesn't creep out of the box will have creep after a few months of use?? The only worry I would have if a creeping lens on smooth would eventually creep on tight. That would be a flaw IMO. But only time will tell on that one.
I'd also point out that if people who haven't used the new lens are thinking along the lines of the "old" 100-400's tightening ring it is not similar to how this one behaves.
The old 100-400 on tight is almost impossible to zoom. The new 100-400 on Tight is a better lens to zoom than the old 100-400 on Smoothest. The only nice thing on the old one is it is not two fixed settings but a range of tightness along the ring. But I always said that the old one is not smooth enough on the smooth setting. This new lens is smooth enough...although in a perfect world the Smooth setting on the new lens would be even smoother like the 200-600. Of course it would creep even faster if that were the case....Show more →
Then he got the early version. Clearly, if the internal zoom lens creep, then it means the lens design is faulty from the beginning.
My $.02 on the creeping. I think it’s inherent to the design. Otherwise, Sony would not have included a tight/smooth switch on the lens. Neither the 200-600 or the 400-800 have such a switch.
Why didn’t Sony design it not to creep like the other internal zoom lenses? I can speculate, but I honestly don’t know
I doubt the creep can be mitigated in future lenses without some design changes. And manufacturing tolerances appear to have an effect on how much each individual lens creeps. And just like external zooms, the creep will most likely increase over time
Is a deal breaker? Don’t know. I guess that depends on the individual and their case use. Personally I have historically favored internal zooms (even though they are larger when not in use) because of the lack of creep, smooth zoom operation, etc…
I think I would need to try one out before making a final decision. So I would definitely purchase from a place with a decent return policy
Other than the creep, it appears to be excellent lens
GraysonLake1987 wrote:
Then he got the early version. Clearly, if the internal zoom lens creep, then it means the lens design is faulty from the beginning.
IMHO, the ones that creep are likely more ideal in terms of in the field function than the ones that don't. But again I haven't held one that doesn't so can't say for sure. I'm making an assumption that in order to not creep it will be less smooth on the smooth setting. Something I don't want at all.
Now, if Sony had a version that was as smooth or smoother on the Smooth setting than the lens I own but didn't creep at all I'd say that was a win.
If a lens that creeps in the smooth setting is a fault for you then I wouldn't buy this lens unless you can verify a copy at a store or through the used market that doesn't creep.
birderbill1 wrote:
While the zoom movement is suboptimal in comparison to the 200-600 and the OM 150-400, there is nothing Sony needs to fix in the units it has produced. There is quite a bit of glass and metal to move in the 100-400, as there is with external telephoto zooms. AFAIK they all have a zoom tighten/lock capability to throttle or prevent inadvertent zoom movement when the lenses are not in a horizontal position. Most reviewers have discussed the 100-400's zoom movement characteristics since day one of the lens being made public.
If the creep was present on all of these 100-400mm lenses (or on none of them), I’d be with you. But if the reports that it affects only some lenses turn out to be accurate it seems likely that it is a design or manufacturing flaw that Sony should address.
It should not be a crapshoot whether you get a copy that creeps or not. I cannot believe that Sony would intend for that randomness to be the case.
gdanmitchell wrote:
I’m sensing a lot of copium being applied by folks who presume that zoom creep is just fine. If it were intentional on Sony’s part, it would affect all units equally. If the reports that it only affects some are accurate, then we’re looking at something that Sony must fix, one way or the other.
Yes, ideally people who have one that doesn't creep should be sending it in to have it loosened.
That is what I'd do if I had a non creeping lens. I don't want a lens that is any tighter on Smooth than my creeping lens is.
Whether Sony could have designed the lens to turn as smooth or smoother than the creeping ones do AND not creep at all is something we just don't know. If they could have then they should have.
But at this point it is what it is. One could try and contact Sony about it and see how far they get. I'm not sure what one would be requesting though? A totally new design to the zoom mechanism? Lighter elements? A new placement of the elements?
I'm glad the lens is a hit with some of you. I want Sony to lead the pack. However, I wonder what the response had been if Sony (not the "influencers") had announced the creep issue and the switch to combat the creep? I rented a 100-400 and It crept unless I turned the dial all the way. I ended up liking the lens and could stop the creep by turning it only slightly. I wonder if the new lens will end up the same way, that, over time, it will need more friction to stop the creep?
So are you guys saying there are only 2 settings for zoom control as opposed to the ring that could be adjusted anywhere between smooth and firm on the old lens?
arbitrage wrote:
Yes, ideally people who have one that doesn't creep should be sending it in to have it loosened.
That is what I'd do if I had a non creeping lens. I don't want a lens that is any tighter on Smooth than my creeping lens is.
Whether Sony could have designed the lens to turn as smooth or smoother than the creeping ones do AND not creep at all is something we just don't know. If they could have then they should have.
But at this point it is what it is. One could try and contact Sony about it and see how far they get. I'm not sure what one would be requesting though? A totally new design to the zoom mechanism? Lighter elements? A new placement of the elements?...Show more →
The fact that it reportedly affects some units but not others suggests that this is more likely a design or manufacturing flaw. I cannot imagine that a company like Sony would not intend the lens to work only one of these two ways. If they intended it to be loose enough to creep, then ALL copies should work that way. If they did not intend that it would creep, then no copies should do that.
At some point Sony will have to address this question, and I believe that they will.
(Personally, I’m not buying the idea that a lens must creep in order to have a smooth and effective zoom mechanism. I’ve never heard of another lens where new copies behaved this way.)
To be clear, I think it sounds like a really excellent lens, and at this point I intend to buy one eventually.
ps09 wrote:
I'm glad the lens is a hit with some of you. I want Sony to lead the pack. However, I wonder what the response had been if Sony (not the "influencers") had announced the creep issue and the switch to combat the creep? I rented a 100-400 and It crept unless I turned the dial all the way. I ended up liking the lens and could stop the creep by turning it only slightly. I wonder if the new lens will end up the same way, that, over time, it will need more friction to stop the creep?
So are you guys saying there are only 2 settings for zoom control as opposed to the ring that could be adjusted anywhere between smooth and firm on the old lens? ...Show more →
Yes. It is not a ring like the 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 GM. It is a switch between "Smooth" and "Tight".
But unlike the older 100-400 the tight setting still allows you to easily zoom the lens, it just prevents any creep. On the Smooth setting there is much less resistance to zooming so can be manipulated quicker during action. But for most people, just leaving it on Tight will be perfect and you won't have to worry about it ending up at 100mm without you realizing when going to take your next shot.
gdanmitchell wrote:
The fact that it reportedly affects some units but not others suggests that this is more likely a design or manufacturing flaw. I cannot imagine that a company like Sony would not intend the lens to work only one of these two ways. If they intended it to be loose enough to creep, then ALL copies should work that way. If they did not intend that it would creep, then no copies should do that.
At some point Sony will have to address this question, and I believe that they will.
(Personally, I’m not buying the idea that a lens must creep in order to have a smooth and effective zoom mechanism. I’ve never heard of another lens where new copies behaved this way.)
To be clear, I think it sounds like a really excellent lens, and at this point I intend to buy one eventually....Show more →
I honestly think the intention was for it to creep because otherwise having the switch is sort of pointless. If it was not meant to creep on the Smooth setting then there would be no need for the switch. This is because it is not like the "old" 100-400GM where the Tight setting locked it very tight. The tight setting on the new 100-400 just eliminates the creep but still allows easy zooming (just not as easy as on Smooth).
arbitrage wrote:
I honestly think the intention was for it to creep because otherwise having the switch is sort of pointless. If it was not meant to creep on the Smooth setting then there would be no need for the switch. This is because it is not like the "old" 100-400GM where the Tight setting locked it very tight. The tight setting on the new 100-400 just eliminates the creep but still allows easy zooming (just not as easy as on Smooth).
That’s an interesting point of view, and I hope that someone from Sony will clarify if the intended behavior is to creep or not to creep.
I’m not so sure about your analysis. I can see it both ways. I have had a couple of Canon 100-400mm zooms (two versions) that had a ring you can turn to “lock” the zoom mechanism. These are the alternate extending zoom (or “telescoping”) design. I don’t notice “creep” (at least on the newer of the two) in the unlocked position, though on this lens the tighter position is intended to lock the lens, not just add friction to it during normal operation.
In any case, we’re all just speculating until Sony says something about this. And whether the creep is intentional or not, if it is true that some copies do it and other do not, there is a manufacturing/design issue that Sony needs to fix, one way or the other.
I don’t think there’s a lot more to say about this without clarification from Sony, so I’ll try to resist continuing the back-and-forth. :-)
I bought this lens yesterday. Switch the "smooth" and hold the lens in a vertical position, no any creep. But when I carried the lens in my camera bag and took it out, 400=>100.
I just talked to another friend. His lens just arrived a few days ago. So an even newer batch than my other friend that had his a week and a half ago.
This friend has an even looser lens than mine. He sent me a video of how fast it goes from 400 to 100 and mine goes much slower.
I don't think there has been any change in how they are produced. I just think there is a big variance in the tightness of the ring or whatever mechanism is in play when using the Smooth/Tight switch.
We know that one person has a non-creeping lens from release day so this is not some fix in production on later copies. Couple that with multiple reports of lenses received in the past week that creep.
gdanmitchell wrote:
That’s an interesting point of view, and I hope that someone from Sony will clarify if the intended behavior is to creep or not to creep.
I’m not so sure about your analysis. I can see it both ways. I have had a couple of Canon 100-400mm zooms (two versions) that had a ring you can turn to “lock” the zoom mechanism. These are the alternate extending zoom (or “telescoping”) design. I don’t notice “creep” (at least on the newer of the two) in the unlocked position, though on this lens the tighter position is intended to lock the lens, not just add friction to it during normal operation.
In any case, we’re all just speculating until Sony says something about this. And whether the creep is intentional or not, if it is true that some copies do it and other do not, there is a manufacturing/design issue that Sony needs to fix, one way or the other.
I don’t think there’s a lot more to say about this without clarification from Sony, so I’ll try to resist continuing the back-and-forth. :-)...Show more →
On the 100-400 lenses I've owned (Canon 100-400, 100-400II, RF 100-500 and the old Sony 100-400) the ones that have a ring to tighten would certainly extend or retract on their own if placed vertically on the loosest setting. The Sony 100-400 (prior version) has the same tightening ring that the Canon's have. As you say, the Tight setting really locks it down where it feels like you might damage something if you tried use it for a day of shooting. The smooth settings are typically not smooth enough IMO.
gdanmitchell wrote:
(Personally, I’m not buying the idea that a lens must creep in order to have a smooth and effective zoom mechanism. I’ve never heard of another lens where new copies behaved this way.)
No one said a lens must creep to have a smooth zoom ring. The smoothest zoom ring I've ever used is the Sony 200-600 and that has no creep.
But with the design of the elements in this lens it obviously had enough weight to allow some creep.
Steve Perry pointed out in his first review that the lens changes balance on a gimbal when zoomed from 100 to 400. That is not a common thing for internal zooms that I'm aware of.
But that shows us these elements that are moving are of considerable mass.
As pointed out previously on this thread if Sony had just left the lens with no adjustment to the smoothness and it just worked like it does on the current Tight setting then no one would be talking about this.
Sony made the design choice to allow a looser setting and designed in the switch. I'm sure they were aware the lens would creep as otherwise there is no point to the switch as it isn't designed to be a tight lock on Tight.
The issue seems to be the tolerance in the mechanism resulting in a range of resistance. Not sure why there is so much variability??
My issue would be having too tight of a lens OR a lens that still creeps on Tight setting. So I'm okay with the lens as it is. I'm actually very interested to try my friend's copy that seems to creep very fast. His might be an even better lens than mine as long as it doesn't creep on Tight. An even smoother/looser zoom on Loose would be killer for swallows in flight!!
arbitrage wrote:
No one said a lens must creep to have a smooth zoom ring. The smoothest zoom ring I've ever used is the Sony 200-600 and that has no creep.
But with the design of the elements in this lens it obviously had enough weight to allow some creep.
Steve Perry pointed out in his first review that the lens changes balance on a gimbal when zoomed from 100 to 400. That is not a common thing for internal zooms that I'm aware of.
But that shows us these elements that are moving are of considerable mass.
As pointed out previously on this thread if Sony had just left the lens with no adjustment to the smoothness and it just worked like it does on the current Tight setting then no one would be talking about this.
Sony made the design choice to allow a looser setting and designed in the switch. I'm sure they were aware the lens would creep as otherwise there is no point to the switch as it isn't designed to be a tight lock on Tight.
The issue seems to be the tolerance in the mechanism resulting in a range of resistance. Not sure why there is so much variability??
My issue would be having too tight of a lens OR a lens that still creeps on Tight setting. So I'm okay with the lens as it is. I'm actually very interested to try my friend's copy that seems to creep very fast. His might be an even better lens than mine as long as it doesn't creep on Tight. An even smoother/looser zoom on Loose would be killer for swallows in flight!!...Show more →
If it was a design choice, then why does it apparently not affect all copies of the lens? And if it was a choice to allow “creep,” does that then mean that lenses that don’t creep should go back for warranty service.
You may or may not be right that it is intentional, but everyone is simply guessing about this… and the fact that it apparently only affects a subset of the lenses suggests at least the possibility that it is manufacturing bug (one way or the other) with early copies of the lens.
It sounds like a great lens otherwise, so let’s hope that Sony can clear this up and let us know whether the “creeper” or “non-creeper” lenses are the correct ones.
It isn’t that it creeps or that it doesn’t creep that raises the question — it is which is the correct, intended behavior.
We need to have a little patience. I’m sure this will get sorted out.
gdanmitchell wrote:
If it was a design choice, then why does it apparently not affect all copies of the lens? And if it was a choice to allow “creep,” does that then mean that lenses that don’t creep should go back for warranty service.
You may or may not be right that it is intentional, but everyone is simply guessing about this… and the fact that it apparently only affects a subset of the lenses suggests at least the possibility that it is manufacturing bug (one way or the other) with early copies of the lens.
It sounds like a great lens otherwise, so let’s hope that Sony can clear this up and let us know whether the “should creep” or “supposed to creep” lenses are the correct ones.
It isn’t that it creeps or that it doesn’t creep that raises the question — it is which is the correct, intended behavior.
We need to have a little patience. I’m sure this will get sorted out....Show more →
Sony can and should clarify what is and is not in spec for this lens. Obviously, the zoom tightness ring is meant to adjust how easy it is to zoom the lens. It should make it easier (i.e., smoother) or harder (i.e., tighter). I would think that a lens could be considered in spec if it doesn't creep on the tight setting even if it does on the loose setting. If it doesn't creep on the loose setting that should be fine as long as it isn't too hard to zoom, however that would be defined. If it creeps on the tight setting, then perhaps Sony wants to clarify that isn't within spec and fix those copies. I think having the ring that lets you adjust the tightness of the zoom is a good thing as long as on the tight end the lens doesn't creep and as long as on the loose end it isn't hard to zoom.
pietipe wrote:
I bought this lens yesterday. Switch the "smooth" and hold the lens in a vertical position, no any creep.
In the Smooth setting pointed up in a vertical orientation at 400mm, it will not creep from 400mm to 100mm. With the lens at 100mm it will creep to 400mm.
Point the lens down and the behavior is opposite, it will creep from 400mm to 100mm.
Not inconsistent behavior, but the orientation of the lens governs the direction of the creep.
