burningheart wrote:
In my opinion the 20-50 would pair nicely with the 14-35.
I'd be curious about your thinking on this. In my mind this lens may well replace the 14-35 and 24-105 for general travel use. In recent years I've been finding myself on family trips to European cities like Rome, Paris, and London instead of the more wildlife oriented travel I prefer. On the Italy trip I used the R7 with the 14-35 (22-55 equiv) and this worked pretty well. For London I found the 18-150 (29-240) wide end limiting for city walk around and then switched to the 18-50 f2.8 for museums.
On the R5 this range should cover most of my needs inside museums and outside for buildings and landscapes. It should pair well with the 70-200 f4 L making for a little over 4 lb kit. I'm also hoping with the R5's 45 MP and the 20-50's excellent MTF at 50 that I'll be able to crop 1.5 for 75mm reach and 1:2 magnification. Then I could use it to replace the 16, 35, and 24-105 and pair it with the magic 100-500. I doubt I'll ever use the PZ.
This is OT but I think of general interest. We're recently back from the England trip where we spent a week in London and then a week on the Cotswold Way. We had 95˚F temperatures in London and it rained on us each day in the Cotswolds. The rain was better than heat but I was reticent to use the fragile 18-150 in the rain so I ended up using my iPhone most of the time. I think I would be more willing to use the weather sealed 20-50.
I used the Adobe Project Indigo camera app on my iPhone 15 and it worked really well. The PI app takes multiple images like Live Mode on the camera app but combines them to a single image in creative ways like HDR. It has more Canon like colors and puts out a DNG that Lightroom likes. It only puts out a 12 MP image native to the iPhone lenses. For intermediate focal lengths like 50 or macro, it uses the slight hand shake to increase resolution and still output 12 MP. For my use I cropped to 16:9 and had to use Topaz Photo to upscale the images to the 2880 pixel height of my display. I was pleased that I came away with quite useable images. I have to do similar if I use crop mode on my R5 (1.6) but have had pretty good results with the light 18-150 lens. This gives me hope for the 20-50. I'll probably program the button on the lens to bring up the crop mode menu.
Jeff Nolten wrote: burningheart wroteIn my opinion the 20-50 would pair nicely with the 14-35.I'd be curious about your thinking on this. In my mind this lens may well replace the 14-35 and 24-105 for general travel use. In recent years I've been finding myself on family trips to European cities like Rome, Paris, and London instead of the more wildlife oriented travel I prefer. On the Italy trip I used the R7 with the 14-35 (22-55 equiv) and this worked pretty well. For London I found the 18-150 (29-240) wide end limiting for city walk around and then switched to the 18-50 f2.8 for museums.
On the R5 this range should cover most of my needs inside museums and outside for buildings and landscapes. It should pair well with the 70-200 f4 L making for a little over 4 lb kit. I'm also hoping with the R5's 45 MP and the 20-50's excellent MTF at 50 that I'll be able to crop 1.5 for 75mm reach and 1:2 magnification. Then I could use it to replace the 16, 35, and 24-105 and pair it with the magic 100-500. I doubt I'll ever use the PZ.
Mine gets delivered tomorrow, We shall see....Show more →
I think it will work well for my travel use too. I plan to pair it with the Voigtlander RF mount 40 f/1.2, so I have an option with a faster aperture and with a longer high quality lens (likely the Voigtlander M mount 90 f/4 APO Lanthar). I don't want wider than 20mm often, but I will probably pick up the Sigma EF mount 14-24mm f/2.8 which is a nice performing lens and pretty inexpensive at this point.
Yes, I carried a Voightlander 20 prime for years in my EF days and it served me well. With the R5 the RF 16 could easily be cropped up to the 24. I'm looking forward to having 20mm available without lens change - when traveling I'm usually with a non-photography group. And in crowds, on buses, subways, and trains a smaller kit is always welcome.
Jeff Nolten wrote:
I'd be curious about your thinking on this. In my mind this lens may well replace the 14-35 and 24-105 for general travel use. In recent years I've been finding myself on family trips to European cities like Rome, Paris, and London instead of the more wildlife oriented travel I prefer. On the Italy trip I used the R7 with the 14-35 (22-55 equiv) and this worked pretty well. For London I found the 18-150 (29-240) wide end limiting for city walk around and then switched to the 18-50 f2.8 for museums.
On the R5 this range should cover most of my needs inside museums and outside for buildings and landscapes. It should pair well with the 70-200 f4 L making for a little over 4 lb kit. I'm also hoping with the R5's 45 MP and the 20-50's excellent MTF at 50 that I'll be able to crop 1.5 for 75mm reach and 1:2 magnification. Then I could use it to replace the 16, 35, and 24-105 and pair it with the magic 100-500. I doubt I'll ever use the PZ.
Mine gets delivered tomorrow, We shall see....Show more →
For myself when camping/hiking in the mountains and shooting scenics be it waterfalls, mountain scenes, I find the 14-35 invaluable as I would at times have a need to go wider than 20mm. When walking in downtown city scapes I found the same.
I find for myself 50mm is a favourite focal length. The 20-50 would also bridge the gap between 35 and 50.
One advantage of those two together is there would be less lens changing as the overlap of 20-35 would in many instances not require a lens change.
When it comes to a light weight walk about my current collection of zooms is more on the heavy side (28-70/2,24-105/2.8,100-500). Though on a recent trip with the VCM line-up I paired the 14 VCM and 24-105/2.8 which worked out quite well. I tend to be more of a prime shooter thus the lack of zooms.
Not sure if I will get the 20-50 as I now have a complete VCM collection plus the 45/1.2 they pair up nicely with the 14-35 and I carry easily carry 2 VCMs/45 with the 14-35 or 3 VCMs. I use the think tank mirrorless mover 25 most often for walk abouts.
Thank you for your perspective. I like my 14-35 and found it invaluable when walking in the redwoods. I like its close focusing at 35 compared to what the 24-105 can do across its range. For air travel I find it too heavy to add to my 24-105 + 100-500 and opt for the 16 and 35 macro instead. I'm hoping the 20-50 can replace the wider three lenses saving two pounds on the airplane and avoiding lens changes for city walks. Without losing IQ! Time will tell. Still keeping all my current lenses though.
So far from the early user/review photos I've seen, it looks like the 20-50 at 20mm is better in the periphery than the 16/2.8 but somewhat less sharp than the 20/1.4. Yes, different lenses in different price categories, etc. I have the 16 and recently acquired the 20. The 20 is far better for across-frame sharpness, as one would hope and expect, but due to software distortion correction, there appears to be slight loss of fine detail sharpness/acutance in the far periphery. But you really have to pixel peep to see it. I think this is also what I'm seeing with the 20-50 combined with generally somewhat less good edge performance. Fine details look a bit smeared, like what I'm used to seeing from most UWA zooms, whereas this is less the case with the 20 VCM.
I'm a bit torn about this lens. 20-50 is a decent range and good for walk around stopped down type work, like on trips, etc. On the other hand, for the event type work I do, which is increasingly available light run and gun, rather than lighting a venue, f/4 is a bit restrictive. It's often fine at the wide end, but by 28-50mm, on the slow side for keeping a good balance of high enough shutter speed and lower ISO. f/4 also does not allow the subject/background separation options available from a faster standard zoom like a 24/28-70. This is pretty much why I use the 28-70/2 as a one-lens solution to replace a number of primes and augment it with the 20 VCM. I almost never have to think about the lenses being too slow for available light use. In this respect, for event work, a 20-50/2.8 would have been more compelling, or even a 20-70/2.8 (maybe that's the next replacement for the current 24-70?). Currently, the lens that makes the most sense to me as a 'keep in the bag just in case' UWA is the 16-28/2.8 because it's wide, small, relatively fast, has decent image quality, offers flexibility as a zoom and is at an 'OK' price point.
Personally, I'm trying to steer a bit away from super UWAs and find that 20mm is good for most of my very wide needs. Like someone mentioned in an earlier post, I'd also pair this lens with the 70-200/4 as a compact L lens walk around set. And such a set could be augmented by one or more primes... but now you're adding more and more lenses. Instead of the 20 VCM, I thought about the 14-35 or the 16-28/2.8. Of those two, as already mentioned, I would lean more towards the 16-28 for compactness so that I'll actually bring it along (it's similar in size to the VCM primes). In this respect the 16/2.8 is difficult to beat, but I still don't usually bring it because I am not thrilled about its peripheral image quality.
Jeff Nolten wrote:
Thank you for your perspective. I like my 14-35 and found it invaluable when walking in the redwoods. I like its close focusing at 35 compared to what the 24-105 can do across its range. For air travel I find it too heavy to add to my 24-105 + 100-500 and opt for the 16 and 35 macro instead. I'm hoping the 20-50 can replace the wider three lenses saving two pounds on the airplane and avoiding lens changes for city walks. Without losing IQ! Time will tell. Still keeping all my current lenses though.
That is close to my plan for travel too. One of my travel kits I hope to be the 20-50 f/4L, the RF 100-400 f/5.6-8 (to keep the weight down) and I will probably add the Voigtlander M 75 f/2.8 APO to fill the gap as well as the Voigtlander RF 40 f/1.2 for when I want/need a faster aperture. That kit with the Canon R5 II comes in at almost exactly 5 lbs. including the adapter for the 75, but not including caps, filters, camera strap, cords, hoods etc.. The whole kits comes in closer to 6 lbs.
rscheffler wrote:
What needs does the 20-50 address for you, with all that redundancy?
Valid question. Recent example: was visiting my daughter in London. Four days of walking around town & surroundings. I only brought the R5+24-70, and the RX100. That means that except for the trip to Bath, I had the RX100. I can't get to the level of using the iPhone, but hauling the 24-70 (conveniently pictured next to the 20-50) is just so much more weight & bulk. Also worth mentioning, the 4mm at the bottom do matter in a city, at least to me, whereas the f2.8 I could live without.
stanj wrote:
...was visiting my daughter in London. Four days of walking around town & surroundings. I only brought the R5+24-70, and the RX100. That means that except for the trip to Bath, I had the RX100. I can't get to the level of using the iPhone, but hauling the 24-70 (conveniently pictured next to the 20-50) is just so much more weight & bulk. Also worth mentioning, the 4mm at the bottom do matter in a city, at least to me, whereas the f2.8 I could live without.
This was the motivation for me too. Just back from a London/Cotswolds trip. Took the R7 + 18-150 and found the 29mm wide just didn't cut it in the city and didn't need its reach. In the numerous museums we visited I think f4 on the R5 would be sufficient. As I said, in the Cotswolds the rain made me hesitant to use the 18-150 but the L should be up to it. That trip is behind me but the 20-50 + R5 would have been perfect for it.
My initial testing with the lens is positive. It looks really sharp across its zoom range at landscape distances from f4 as the commercial reviews have indicated. Cropped to the same field of view as my 70-200 f4 at 70 mm I cannot see a difference viewed at 100%. Nor can I see a difference between using 1.6 crop mode on the R5 and equivalent cropping in post. Finally, the macro shots at 50 look good. I was a bit concerned after Christopher Frost's review, but all looks well even cropped in to a 1:2 magnification. I am pleased so far.
For those who want to see my not-so-scientific comparison to the 24-70/2.8 and 14-35L, I have a number of raw files that you can import into LR, render 1:1 previews, and compare images at the same aperture. Pretty impressive even at 20.
You will need the adobe lens profile that's available in the Pre-Release of LrC, meaning it will be available in the public release no doubt soon.
stanj wrote:
For those who want to see my not-so-scientific comparison to the 24-70/2.8 and 14-35L, I have a number of raw files that you can import into LR, render 1:1 previews, and compare images at the same aperture. Pretty impressive even at 20.
You will need the adobe lens profile that's available in the Pre-Release of LrC, meaning it will be available in the public release no doubt soon.
Thank you!!
My LrC 15.4.1 is using the Camera Settings profile. Is this not good enough?
In any case, I had a quick look. I think the 14-35 at 20mm might be slightly better in the image periphery than the 20-50 at 20mm, but it's close. I like the 20-50 better at 24mm than the 24-70. I also like the 20-50 better at 50mm than the 24-70, which appears to exhibit stronger field curvature bending back towards the camera at the image edges. This is kind of what I remember about the 24-70 when I tested it against the 28-70/2 and one of the reasons I chose the 28-70. The 24-70's behavior reminded me a lot of the EF v2 lens, which for me was love/hate. Plus I thought its 70mm bokeh was more nervous than the 28-70 or 70-200s.
Also, just curious: did you crop these to 16:9 (or similar) in LR, or in camera? It wasn't a problem to quickly clear the crop.