p.2 #1 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
dalegaspi wrote:
what's that lens? i see Skyllaney ... is that a rehoused lens or something?
EDIT: found it.. Omnar Pantessa which is a rehoused Yashica/Zeiss 35/3.5 .. jesus that price.
Yeah it's a unique rehousing to make it perfectly calibrated for all apertures on the M. It also covers a medium format sensor to adapt to XCD or GFX. I'm a big fan of Yashica film point and shoots that had this lens. It gives a rather unique rendering with M body similar to film.
p.2 #2 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
Hands are different for all of us. That said I use a Leica grip on my EV1 and also a Thumbs up grip since both help me hold the camera steadier.I also use a soft shutter release.
p.2 #3 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
There are fewer options for film cameras and if older then meter mounting also is a consideration, this is my recent MP, so with internal meter I can put a thumbs up in the hot shoe, this is Lugi case with grip. owl crown soft release and an owl crown eye piece. Sometimes silk strap and sometimes leather this is silk. The MP always feels a bit heavy, it is solid, even with a smaller lens, this is a 1966 vintage rigid 50 mm this set up helps me hold it steady. There are some other options for film just not as many for the M10/M11 and some depend on what vintage film.This helps me hold the film camera steady when I often shooting much slower speeds than with M11. My current iteration and always looking to see if there is something to improve it. For me being M3 vintage myself I am finding some security and steadiness in the grips and thumb rest, it is all personal choice or necessity.
p.2 #4 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
I've tried dressing up my M bodies with every accessory imaginable, but I always come back to the clean, naked Leica M look. I even prefer my lenses without their hoods.
p.2 #5 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
I don't use a grip or thumb thing as I find it totally unnecessary. You just have to hold the camera correctly. I think it's actually a perfect shape if you don't try to hold it like a grip camera.
p.2 #6 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
I have used Leicas since 1977 my first an M2 no self timer never had a grip on one in my life when I but one used ti comes with a grip I sell it. I am 6 foot 2 and have appropiate sized hands
p.2 #7 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
My Leica IIIb goes bare due to its coat-pocket size, especially with collapsible Elmar. Dropping it is not an option. The M4, however has one of those boutique cloth shoulder straps which I can choose to wind around my right hand then loop over my thumb which is parked behind the film advance. The camera is firmly attached to my hand yet instantly ready to shoot.
p.2 #8 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
BTW, my rationale for using a grip is that I often have the M in my right hand, along my leg. This is an habit and when shooting street, it means the camera is always ready but also that I almost forget it, I just look at my environment and also that it is even more unobtrusive than usual.
Maybe its just me, my own trip but it works.
In this position, the M is vulnerable to anything that can make me open my hand. So I have 2 safeguards, one is the use of a thing leather strap I can roll around my wrist but it is not 100%, the second is a handgrip.
Coincidentally, one of the first camera to include a handgrip what the Canon A1 and it was also my first serious one. I'm used to it and for decades now, most of them have one including something as small as a Ricoh GR.
So I do not understand why we do not have a better, designed from the start and well integrated option for the M.
Well, I know why: because many M users want for nothing to change and it took a very long time to convince them that a bigger speed selector rotating is the right direction would be a good idea.
Me, I just want a compact, lightweight, simple to use rangefinder camera. So I do not want a removable plate, I want USB-C charging and connectivity and anything that can make my life simpler so let's add IBIS and an hybrid viewfinder in the same size and I'll spend a ridiculous amount of money to upgrade my M again. I may even accept slightly bigger as using the M240 and even the M5 is not a punishment.
p.2 #10 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
Famous and wonderful photo of Carter Bresson, and if I was 10%, 5%, 1%... of the photographer he was maybe I would not need my grip crutch, but alas too late in the game for me. But I do have the thorium summicron he liked so much in the photo, and I also like it, radioactive and all.
p.2 #11 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
rico wrote:
Henri Cartier-Bresson in standard shooting position: no case, no grip, shoulder strap wrapped around wrist:
You forgot knees slightly bended in a strange way to be stable, viewfinder accessory to compose with the scene upside down...
Try them too
In the meantime, I'm using my own solutions instead of emulating CB for so many reasons
One of them is I would end up giving up photography and explaining we can do it without a camera, just in our mind. And moving to drawing but sorry, I'm prefer what he did with his Leica.
p.2 #13 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
gordec wrote:
After trying half case, thumb grip, I decided to keep it minimal. I keep this M11 setup with Omnar Pantessa in a small Jordan cross body camera bag, and take it everywhere with me. The retractable IDS thumbgrip is all I need to feel secure. It's much better than traditional thumb grip that sticks out.
Benj Haisch showcased this grip in one of his recent YouTube accessory videos. It was shown there that this grip also attaches to the hot shoe (can't really tell from your photo)? He mentioned a newer version of it where the hot shoe is "extended" meaning the grip is still placed on the hot shoe but a flash can be mounted on top of it. He didn't mention it, but I don't think it will work with the external EVF?
p.2 #15 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
retrofocus wrote:
Benj Haisch showcased this grip in one of his recent YouTube accessory videos. It was shown there that this grip also attaches to the hot shoe (can't really tell from your photo)? He mentioned a newer version of it where the hot shoe is "extended" meaning the grip is still placed on the hot shoe but a flash can be mounted on top of it. He didn't mention it, but I don't think it will work with the external EVF?
Yes their new version does have integrated hot shoe with pass through to work with manual flash. It sticks out quite a bit, so I guess if you really want to use a flash, it's the way to go.
p.2 #17 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
stgrove wrote:
Back in HCB days were there even grips and thumb rests available as add-ons?
I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek about the grip. Apparently, no such product existed at that time, even from third parties. I could imagine a compatible Leica case with side grip in the style of Luigi Crescenz (since cases were very popular) but haven't found a period example either. The closest equivalent would be a M3 Leicavit that extends the grip area—similar to how some of us currently add a base plate for that same purpose.
p.2 #18 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
The naked ergonomics of an M are part of my image creation process. True, its size limits stability; better than a phone, but worse than a thick grip with large lens, which is worse than anything on a good tripod. For all of Leica's engineering excellence, they are not and have never been the best tools for technical results: you could always get more resolution and contrast with a big sheet of film in a studio. But, the M excels in the human-scale environment of knock and bustle. It disappears in a bag, it is forgettable on a strap, and weighs the hand down like a pint in a pub. The fiddly bits take a while to master but become a fluid part of the process; some people prefer slip-on shoes or velcro straps, but most people prefer the fit laces give their footwear and no longer even think about the once-difficult task of tying knots. I guess if you learn a Leica with a grip, using it without one would be awkward... but, for me, adding unnecessary widgets makes it feel like tying someone else's shoes.
I keep a ziptie on the right-side eyelet of my M, which loops over my middle two fingers. It is tight enough that the camera won't fall free even if I let go, but loose enough that I can change my grip around a fair amount. And I suspect that's why I like the naked body: if all the controls fell under my fingers, a full hand grip might be best, but somehow I prefer moving my hands around the knobs and dials of my Leica compared to the squeeze-grip massage handling of my Nikon. Big grips and little protrusions just get in the way.
p.2 #19 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
I found that the X2D & X2D2 pretty much negated my Leica M desires. That said, a Monochrom ‘M’ does bring something different to the table and I still many film ‘M’s’. I use half-cases and for digital and found a great 3D printed grip that seconds as a thumb rest and makes handling the camera quite nice.
p.2 #20 · Do folks use Leica M cameras "naked" (ie without grips of any kind) and are still happy with the ergonomics?
bwcolor wrote:
I found that the X2D & X2D2 pretty much negated my Leica M desires
I often wonder how one can hesitate between a big MF, AF mirrorless camera and a Leica M.
Choose one or have both ok. But if you are happy with a X2D, the M was probably the worst camera for you to start with.
The M4, however has one of those boutique cloth shoulder straps which I can choose to wind around my right hand then loop over my thumb which is parked behind the film advance. The camera is firmly attached to my hand yet instantly ready to shoot.
