Posted this on the "Trip
Location Advice & Meetup" forum as well.
Planning a trip to Tokyo in a few months, and I'm not sure what gear to take since I've never been there. I'll be traveling with my adult kid who "tolerates" photography, unlike myself who absolutely loves photography. My kid agreed to bring along one of my cameras, providing it wasn't too heavy. I have a couple of options I'm considering
My current equipment (these are the cameras and lenses I currently own, and I have no desire/interest in either purchasing or renting anything that is NOT on my list):
Cameras:
- Canon R6II
- Canon 7dmk2
- Sony A7c
- Sony A7iv
- OM System OM-5
Lenses for my Canon cameras:
- RF 16mm f2.8 STM
- RF 24mm f1.8 Macro
- RF 28mm f2.8 STM
- RF 35mm f1.8 Macro
- RF 50mm f1.8 STM
- RF 16-28mm f2.8 STM
- RF 24-240mm f4-6.3
- Three Canon EF to RF Adapters
- EF 28mm f1.8 USM
- EF 50mm f1.8 STM
- EF 85mm f1.8 USM
- EF 100mm f2.8L
- EF 300mm f4.0L
- EF 17-40mm f4.0L
- EF 70-200mm f2.8L
- EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 USM
- EF-S 10-18mm f4.5/5.6 STM
- Pan/Leica 9mm f1.7
- Panasonic 17mm f2.5
- Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 G2
- OM System 45-150mm f4 Pro
- Olympus 30mm f3.5 Macro
- Olympus 60mm f2.8 Macro
Here are the choices I've been considering. Please feel free to modify or suggest alternatives:
A) A7iv for me, A7c for the kid. Both cameras share the same batteries/chargers, so less things we need to pack. Only have 3 lenses, so I'd take all 3. Kid gets the A7c with Tamron 20-40mm f2.8 attatched but can borrow my other two lenses if needed.
B) R6II for me, OM-5 for kid. Not sure what lenses I take because I'm really not a fan of the distorted results I get with my RF zooms. Kid would get the OM-5 with Pan/Leica 9mm f1.7, Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8, and 45-150mm f4 Pro. Not sure if kid would love carrying all that gear though.
C) R6II for me, 7dmk2 for kid. I'd probably just bring my EF lenses as they perform better than my RF lenses (and yes, my EF 17-40mm f4.0L is one of those rare, sharp copies). Both cameras use the same batteries/charger, lenses easily swapped if I'm using the EF/RF adapter on my R6II. Downside is that my kid would hate the 7dmk2 because it's so heavy.
I shoot with Sony and Canon systems. I'll go with your kid with the A7c and Tamron 28-200 and you the A7IV and Tamron 17-28.
I'm heading to Japan too this fall. I already contacted a model in Tokyo so for me it's either: Sony A7V + Sony 40/2.5 G and Godox V1 Mid or Sony A6700 + Sigma 17-40/1.8 + Godox V1 or Fuji X100VI + Godox iT30 F.
jojib wrote:
I shoot with Sony and Canon systems. I'll go with your kid with the A7c and Tamron 28-200 and you the A7IV and Tamron 17-28.
I'm heading to Japan too this fall. I already contacted a model in Tokyo so for me it's either: Sony A7V + Sony 40/2.5 G and Godox V1 Mid or Sony A6700 + Sigma 17-40/1.8 + Godox V1 or Fuji X100VI + Godox iT30 F.
robstein wrote:
I would go for R6ii + 24-240 + 16 prime but comes down to what system you prefer for shooting.
Thanks! I took both my R6II with the RF 24-240mm f4-6.3 and my A7iv with the Tamron 28-200mm f2.8-5.6 out today to get some quick snapshots of birds in my neighborhood. I was actually impressed at how well the RF 24-240mm performed! I really like my R6II, but for convenience issues I've been debating taking the two Sonys instead. On the flip side, I can always take a couple of my smaller RF primes. Question is what do I bring along for my kid though.
One other aspect: If one of the cameras breaks or gets stolen - what would you do in each case? Is there a system you are building up or a system you plan to get rid off? Are you concerned about the value you two are carrying? Which would you replace and which forget?
And quite important - which camera is your kid used to, is there a camera it would take when traveling alone or going on a day trip? A journey together might be a chance to install some competence in using the camera.
I hate to tell a fellow photographer what they should take so maybe you should bring your preferred body and favorite lens?
I would prefer to bring a lens that offers me something in the way that I can see a scene. i’m gonna find something interesting to photograph regardless of focal lengths.
In regards to what your kids should bring, I would most definitely recommend a 35 mm prime. It's less to think about and it’s a great walk around focal length. Compact and light too.
Good luck and have fun.
snegron7 wrote:
Thanks! I took both my R6II with the RF 24-240mm f4-6.3 and my A7iv with the Tamron 28-200mm f2.8-5.6 out today to get some quick snapshots of birds in my neighborhood. I was actually impressed at how well the RF 24-240mm performed! I really like my R6II, but for convenience issues I've been debating taking the two Sonys instead. On the flip side, I can always take a couple of my smaller RF primes. Question is what do I bring along for my kid though.
Altglas wrote:
One other aspect: If one of the cameras breaks or gets stolen - what would you do in each case? Is there a system you are building up or a system you plan to get rid off? Are you concerned about the value you two are carrying? Which would you replace and which forget?
And quite important - which camera is your kid used to, is there a camera it would take when traveling alone or going on a day trip? A journey together might be a chance to install some competence in using the camera.
Good points! I've been "flip-flopping" between systems for several years now. I've sold off stuff that I didn't like (like most of my Nikon gear) and kept what I enjoy most. I will admit that the A7iv was an impulse purchase though. I really liked my A7c, and when I sold off a Ricoh GRIII Street Edition plus some other stuff I wasn't using, I purchased the A7iv (around 34 days before the release of the A7V, so I was stuck with it).
As for which camera I like the most, I would say the R6II hands down. Absolutely the best ergonomics of any camera I've ever owned (right up there with my old Nikon F100). It's not perfect, but it feels great and captures great images. I only take it with me to safe places. Last trip to Iceland it was my primary camera with my OM-5 as backup. The R6II was also my primary camera and my R7 as a backup on my recent tripto Spain, (sold that R7 because the AF tracking was subpar). I've read that Japan is a safe place, so I wouldn't mind bringing it with me.
For places that are "somewhat safe", I'll take my A7c. Being that it's now an older body, it would cost less to replace than my R6II. For places that are sketchy, risky or high chances of bad weather, I'll take my OM-5 as primary and maybe an old point & shoot as a backup.
As for the camera my kid is used to, I would say none at all. My kid is now showing a very, very tiny interest in photography. I don't want that spark to vanish, so I suggested to my kid to bring along one of my cameras. Kid agreed under the condition that the camera not be one of my "large, heavy cameras". Selling point for an interchangeable lens camera was that my kid wants to take pics of some seal in an aquarium.
I suspect that I'm going to end up hailing all the equipment around myself as soon as my kid looses interest, so I'll be taking a comfy backpack. 😀
Surfnsun wrote:
I hate to tell a fellow photographer what they should take so maybe you should bring your preferred body and favorite lens?
I would prefer to bring a lens that offers me something in the way that I can see a scene. i’m gonna find something interesting to photograph regardless of focal lengths.
In regards to what your kids should bring, I would most definitely recommend a 35 mm prime. It's less to think about and it’s a great walk around focal length. Compact and light too.
Good luck and have fun.
Thanks!! I welcome all the suggestions possible! I've never been to Japan, so I honestly don't know what lenses would work best. My go-to lenses when traveling are usually in the wide to normal range, with a short telephoto for the occasional crop/long shots.
Lots of factors to consider when traveling to a place for the first time. I don't know how crowded the streets will be, not sure what the rules are for shooting indoors, not sure if social rules frown upon tourists stopping and taking pictures, not sure if I'll even fit in the trains with my backpack!
While I'm looking forward to taking pictures, I'm equally excited to go shopping in Tokyo! I would love to see the equipment they sell at Yodobashi and Bic Camera, not to mention all the used camera stores throughout the city!
Very good point regarding a 35mm focal length lens for my kid. The only 35mm prime I have is for my Canon gear, but I have the shorter zooms for my Sony and OM-5 that my kid can use as well. Thanks!
Obviously no wrong answers and shooting styles are personal but having been to Japan a number of times I do have an opinion. . My last employer was based there and my wife was born there so we have/had plenty of reasons to go.
The two most recent trips 85% of the shots were taken on either an A7RV or A1 II with the 20-70 F4 lens.
Last trip I brought the 35 1.4 GM but barely used it. The 70-200 GM II + 1.4 TC was nice to have along but not crucial imo.
I've got another Japan trip on the books this year and the first thing that'll go in the bag is the 20-70.
liggy wrote:
Obviously no wrong answers and shooting styles are personal but having been to Japan a number of times I do have an opinion. . My last employer was based there and my wife was born there so we have/had plenty of reasons to go.
The two most recent trips 85% of the shots were taken on either an A7RV or A1 II with the 20-70 F4 lens.
Last trip I brought the 35 1.4 GM but barely used it. The 70-200 GM II + 1.4 TC was nice to have along but not crucial imo.
I've got another Japan trip on the books this year and the first thing that'll go in the bag is the 20-70.
I don't know how you shoot and what you would like to use so it is harder to advise what you should bring, but I think for your kid just a 20-40mm zoom isn't a great kit. It doesn't have a fast aperture or a nice focal length range.
If it were me, then I would take the 7D MK II with just the 28 f/1.8 for your kid. It is a fairly light kit and has a decently fast aperture and a focal length a lot like a cell phone, so I don't think the single focal length would bother them too much.
For you, if it were me, I would take the RF 16-28 f/2.8, the EF 50 f/1.8, and the EF 85 f/1.8. The latter two lenses you could let your kid borrow if they wanted more focal lengths. It gives you a pretty solid and light kit too.
For travel I really like have just three lenses to keep the weight down and wide/ultrawide, normal, and short telephoto works well for me. My current travel kit is a 21mm lens (an adapted Voigtlander 21 f/3.5 M mount lens), a Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2, and the Canon RF 85 f/2 Macro.
I don't know enough of the other systems to suggest.
You've got 1.5 kits for two people with the Sony. While the two pretty redundant wider lenses will do fairly well, neither would seem, to me, to be a suitable "only" lens for Japan. You've got only one mid-range and longer. Maybe A7iv and 28-200, either of the other two, for him. The 17-28 is wider, the 20-40 might make for less swapping. Then, since willing to do "two" systems with other mounts, pick one of the others for you and indulge any interest in too many lenses and much swapping for you?.
Not sure how they compare for system ease of use. A7iv, I'd probably set up with a simpler focus system approach. Maybe Tracking with Flexible Spot M. I use BBF but with a beginner, maybe not? P or A checking for shutter speed limits and floating ISO to fit general use. Do "training" before you go and keep it simple. This might best be a "big" point and shoot.
The chances of damage/failure are really low, theft probably almost non-existent. It's Japan. Short of a coincidental typhoon, risks are almost non-existent. Replacements and/or adding gear is barely an inconvenience and you're looking to shop/sight-see the camera stores.
Trains? They differ. If in a standing room train, the backpack of other bag probably needs to be off and held to side or front to accommodate other passengers. You might be able to rest it, controlled, on the floor. I hesitate to say place it in an overhead rack (if available), the ebb and flow of passengers on and off can move you away fro an easy reach to the rack.
Away from busy urban rides, it might be easier to find a seat, carry in lap, etc.
I didn't find city or people photography too difficult. It's a polite society. I wouldn't want to be pushy and get too overt or intrusive about taking peoples' pictures nor interfere with people, blocking or stopping on busy sidewalks or street crossings, etc.
Are you hoping to change the kid's mind about photography or is this more are "free sherpa" situation where he'll be carrying your extra gear?
As for the city itself, Tokyo isn't vastly different from any other major metropolitan area in the world. Be aware of "no camera" signs (typically a picture of a camera with a line through it) that pop up at some businesses/museums/temples. Typically, you're fine photographing exteriors of temples, for example, but inside may be either restricted (no flash, no pod, no Buddha statues) or prohibited entirely. Some people take their expectation of privacy more seriously than others, even though many are wearing masks. My best advice is to ask first if you plan to make someone you don't know the subject of a photograph (even as an amateur), just like anywhere else.
So my advice is to take whatever's been successful for you in those situations in the past you're willing to carry without involving the kid.
Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't know how you shoot and what you would like to use so it is harder to advise what you should bring, but I think for your kid just a 20-40mm zoom isn't a great kit. It doesn't have a fast aperture or a nice focal length range.
If it were me, then I would take the 7D MK II with just the 28 f/1.8 for your kid. It is a fairly light kit and has a decently fast aperture and a focal length a lot like a cell phone, so I don't think the single focal length would bother them too much.
For you, if it were me, I would take the RF 16-28 f/2.8, the EF 50 f/1.8, and the EF 85 f/1.8. The latter two lenses you could let your kid borrow if they wanted more focal lengths. It gives you a pretty solid and light kit too.
For travel I really like have just three lenses to keep the weight down and wide/ultrawide, normal, and short telephoto works well for me. My current travel kit is a 21mm lens (an adapted Voigtlander 21 f/3.5 M mount lens), a Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2, and the Canon RF 85 f/2 Macro....Show more →
Thanks! That's actually a really good combo idea I hadn't thought of! For some reason I was just picturing the 7dmk2 with the EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 on it, but that would make it a bit heavier than my kid would tolerate. Thanks again!
Craig Gillette wrote:
I don't know enough of the other systems to suggest.
You've got 1.5 kits for two people with the Sony. While the two pretty redundant wider lenses will do fairly well, neither would seem, to me, to be a suitable "only" lens for Japan. You've got only one mid-range and longer. Maybe A7iv and 28-200, either of the other two, for him. The 17-28 is wider, the 20-40 might make for less swapping. Then, since willing to do "two" systems with other mounts, pick one of the others for you and indulge any interest in too many lenses and much swapping for you?.
Not sure how they compare for system ease of use. A7iv, I'd probably set up with a simpler focus system approach. Maybe Tracking with Flexible Spot M. I use BBF but with a beginner, maybe not? P or A checking for shutter speed limits and floating ISO to fit general use. Do "training" before you go and keep it simple. This might best be a "big" point and shoot.
The chances of damage/failure are really low, theft probably almost non-existent. It's Japan. Short of a coincidental typhoon, risks are almost non-existent. Replacements and/or adding gear is barely an inconvenience and you're looking to shop/sight-see the camera stores.
Trains? They differ. If in a standing room train, the backpack of other bag probably needs to be off and held to side or front to accommodate other passengers. You might be able to rest it, controlled, on the floor. I hesitate to say place it in an overhead rack (if available), the ebb and flow of passengers on and off can move you away fro an easy reach to the rack.
Away from busy urban rides, it might be easier to find a seat, carry in lap, etc.
I didn't find city or people photography too difficult. It's a polite society. I wouldn't want to be pushy and get too overt or intrusive about taking peoples' pictures nor interfere with people, blocking or stopping on busy sidewalks or street crossings, etc....Show more →
Thank you!! I agree with you regarding my Sony equipment; nice cameras but the 3 lenses are inconvenient and not ideal for light travel. When I first got the A7c, I remember using the 20-40mm f2.8 as a primary lens on a trip. I found it not to be wide enough. It's more of a "compromise" type lens. Going with two completely different systems is not out of the question. My biggest concern is that I might be the one hauling everything around or leaving my kid's choice of equipment in the hotel.
freaklikeme wrote:
Are you hoping to change the kid's mind about photography or is this more are "free sherpa" situation where he'll be carrying your extra gear?
As for the city itself, Tokyo isn't vastly different from any other major metropolitan area in the world. Be aware of "no camera" signs (typically a picture of a camera with a line through it) that pop up at some businesses/museums/temples. Typically, you're fine photographing exteriors of temples, for example, but inside may be either restricted (no flash, no pod, no Buddha statues) or prohibited entirely. Some people take their expectation of privacy more seriously than others, even though many are wearing masks. My best advice is to ask first if you plan to make someone you don't know the subject of a photograph (even as an amateur), just like anywhere else.
So my advice is to take whatever's been successful for you in those situations in the past you're willing to carry without involving the kid. ...Show more →
That is my underlying intention; to change my kid's mind about photography! I highly doubt I'll succeed though. Unfortunately, the "free sherpa" will most likely be me! 😀
I appreciate the tips regarding non-photography signs and being respectful toward the people there. I've been reading up on travel tips, and there seem to be plenty of unspoken social rules and expectations there that are not common in other places.
Part of me is wishing/hoping that this will finally be the occasion when my kid will develop a genuine interest in photography. However, I am painfully aware that there is a very high probability that my kid will regard this as yet another nuisance on my part, and I'll end up being the "annoying photographer dad with the credit card".
It's an 11 day trip. All I asked my kid was for me to have just one of those 11 days for me to go shopping and visit the Nikon museum. Just one day. For the other 10 days, kid gets to go anywhere, and I get to tag along and pay for everything.
In reality photography is 90% about subject, composition, light and the right moment. And 10% about gear. In forum discussions this relation is reversed!
So for a beginner a easy to use camera that has a good auto mode with some way to influence it a little would be an advantage to get a good start with the important 90%.
Also a beginner handles the camera more for each photo as the routine isn't there and the eyes are untrained. A big and heavy camera will be much less ageeable for a beginner than for an experienced photographer.
I was reading through this thread and was wondering more about your travel plan than about the choice of photography gear.
"It's an 11 day trip" - all time in Tokyo?
I have been to Japan several times, for extended 3-5 month stays, and shall return there this June to July. It is understandable for a first time visitor to do all of the touristic places (Tokyo, Kyoto, Nara, etc). Having said that, I would personally want to avoid staying in large major cities in Japan for more than two nights, especially so in the summer months - I find the experience suffocating. I hope you should like your time in Tokyo, but don't be surprised if you should start feeling tired in a few days.
For my own trip this year, I shall take the GFX100S II with the GF20-35MM F4 and GF55MM F1.7 lenses, together with a micro-four-thirds camera with the medium telephoto M.Zuiko 40-150mm F2.8 lens.
For your kid, perhaps the "photographer dad with the credit card" can make a gift of OM-3 with the M.Zuiko 20mm F1.4 lens?
. My last employer was based there and my wife was born there so we have/had plenty of reasons to go.