One more comment from a "new to Sony" user. In cam Lens corrections -- I assume there's probably other discussion about this in other threads, but at least here I can address it in the A7R6.
I tested with LC both on and off. I shoot raw, and in this case, I'm using plain old raw, not compressed or lossy -- I will test those later just so I know; and yes, I expect no discernible difference between regular raw and non-lossy compressed. I did not test with jpegs, so it may well be different there and I recommend jpeg shooters compare for themselves with their lenses. Also I only tested with this particular 20-70/4 Sony zoom, so other lenses may behave differently.
Those disclaimers out of the, on to my findings: I was surprised at how much internal lens corrections appear to negatively affect lens performance. Using my Sony 20-70 which probably isn't among the sharpest of Sony lenses, at f8 the difference between LC on and off was pretty notably in favor of keeping it off at all times. With it on, corners become alarmingly soft even at f8, and well into the frame, like almost to the APS-c corners. With it off, corners remain totally usable and just a little bit weaker than the center, which is frankly excellent in both LC on or off cases. Also, the resolution loss effect was most pronounced at the 20-35 range and less so at 50-70. The lens does suffer from some field curvature, and this may be part of the reason for this behavior, IDK...
Next, toggling lens corrections off and on in post --I am currently using ACR-- shows some very minor resolution loss at 20mm in the extreme corners, but still very acceptable resolution for the amount of barrel removed. At the other focals it was pretty much no significant difference in resolution, but of course the more obvious gains in geometry.
So as a conclusion for me, it's leaving them off in camera and applying them in post. Offered only FWIW...
rd4tile wrote:
I think Sony was leaning heavily on LC when they designed the 20-70. I sold mine when I found it was no better than the Sigma 20-200.
You may have had a poor copy, or indeed left internal lens corrections on -- I would sell mine too if it performed like it did when I turned them on. However, in use for about a month now, I've found may particular copy of the 20-70 pretty much echos the Optical Limits review -- meaning quite good across the frame and throughout the range -- at least without internal corrections active. My main uses for this lens are travel and landscape, so f2.8 isn't a requirement and then I preferred the added range and lower size and weight for *my uses* -- I respect others needs vary.
As you can see by this review, the 20-70 --especially comparing at f8-- is not all that far behind the 20-70 GMii legend zoom across the range, and is actually a little better in the corners at the long end. And while OL did not test the 20-70 at 24mm, my copy is quite good there as well, I think one can probably interpolate half-way between the 20 and 28 graphs as a reasonable expectation.
How do I go about saving a custom WB in an MR group? I go to custom WB in the menu and I cannot set one in a specific MR. I have to go out the main settings and here I can set one off a grad card. So now I've done that and saved in it slot 3. I go back into my MR and custom WB's are all still factory default 5500. Do I now have to now set all the settings for my desired MR group out in the main area and re-save it as my original dedicated MR just to get the custom WB saved? And will that actually save it?? Is there not a simple way to load that custom WB into the already working MR?
Jack Flesher wrote:
One more comment from a "new to Sony" user. In cam Lens corrections -- I assume there's probably other discussion about this in other threads, but at least here I can address it in the A7R6.
I tested with LC both on and off. I shoot raw, and in this case, I'm using plain old raw, not compressed or lossy -- I will test those later just so I know; and yes, I expect no discernible difference between regular raw and non-lossy compressed. I did not test with jpegs, so it may well be different there and I recommend jpeg shooters compare for themselves with their lenses. Also I only tested with this particular 20-70/4 Sony zoom, so other lenses may behave differently.
Those disclaimers out of the, on to my findings: I was surprised at how much internal lens corrections appear to negatively affect lens performance. Using my Sony 20-70 which probably isn't among the sharpest of Sony lenses, at f8 the difference between LC on and off was pretty notably in favor of keeping it off at all times. With it on, corners become alarmingly soft even at f8, and well into the frame, like almost to the APS-c corners. With it off, corners remain totally usable and just a little bit weaker than the center, which is frankly excellent in both LC on or off cases. Also, the resolution loss effect was most pronounced at the 20-35 range and less so at 50-70. The lens does suffer from some field curvature, and this may be part of the reason for this behavior, IDK...
Next, toggling lens corrections off and on in post --I am currently using ACR-- shows some very minor resolution loss at 20mm in the extreme corners, but still very acceptable resolution for the amount of barrel removed. At the other focals it was pretty much no significant difference in resolution, but of course the more obvious gains in geometry.
So as a conclusion for me, it's leaving them off in camera and applying them in post. Offered only FWIW...
Good post, Jack. I always leave lens corrections off in camera and even in post I like the uncorrected images about 90% of the time. I prefer the natural vignette and look.
Just checked my 20-70 shots from last weekend (on A1). I had LCs on for all my edits. Turned them off and immediately noticed a stark improvement in corner/edge sharpness. Also turned off chromatic aberration corrections, for even more improvement. Glad I stumbled upon ya'lls chat!
BigBabyMoses06 wrote:
Just checked my 20-70 shots from last weekend (on A1). I had LCs on for all my edits. Turned them off and immediately noticed a stark improvement in corner/edge sharpness. Also turned off chromatic aberration corrections, for even more improvement. Glad I stumbled upon ya'lls chat!
“Stark improvement” is an excellent description! It surprises me that internal corrections meant primarily for jpegs are that debilitating to the raw file. 🤷🏼
Jack Flesher wrote:
“Stark improvement” is an excellent description! It surprises me that internal corrections meant primarily for jpegs are that debilitating to the raw file. 🤷🏼
The lens correction feature is only available if you are shooting JPG, right? Or, am I wrong? I couldn't find the step to turn that off otherwise.
AGeoJO wrote:
The lens correction feature is only available if you are shooting JPG, right? Or, am I wrong? I couldn't find the step to turn that off otherwise.
Nope. You can definitely turn it on or off in raw only mode. We are told it only affects the jpeg, and embeds correction data in the raw. Somehow that particular correction data hammers the raw file.
rd4tile wrote:
Sony bakes the lens compensation into the RAW file. You turn it on or off in your editing software. You can't turn that off in camera.
Uh, yes you can. It’s right in the menu on the camera.
The lens data is in the exif and the raw software can use that to apply its version of the required correction. But that’s completely separate from the camera’s internally applied corrections.
You may need to click on a given image to see it animate. There are two animations, the first at the extreme left edge / center and the second at the upper left corner. Due to the nature of correction transforms, the extreme corners are most effected, followed by the edges. For the uncorrected image I increased the brightness to make it easier to compare to the corrected image (ie, manually applied vignetting correction).
OK I saw this in the Sony help guide: " Yes, you can turn off lens distortion compensation in your Sony camera's menu, but it depends on the lens. For many native Sony lenses, the distortion compensation setting is locked to Auto and cannot be turned off."
I know you can turn the correction on or off in LRC when opening your RAW files.
I'm a little confused by this discussion re 20-70 files and the effect of turning lens distortion compensation on / off in the menu and how that would affect a RAW file. I think you're saying above the camera writes the distortion corrections to the RAW files metadata if the menu selection is on but doesn't if the menu is set to off?
If lens corrections are turned off or set to the editing software's lens profile any corrections done during RAW conversion by the editing software should ignore the embedded metadata whether the camera embedded it or not. How are you getting different results?
@rd4tile there are two different mechanisms to implement lens corrections. One is done by the manufacturer, and Adobe (ACR, LR and LRC) always apply it without an option to turn it off (see the screenshot below)
But C1 lets you optionally ignore it.
The second mechanism is implemented by a RAW converter, it looks at the lens ID in the EXIF and pulls its own lens profile which is stored on your computer similar to how a color profiles are implemented. This one you can turn on/off in the RAW converter. (second checkbox)
What I don't 100% understand is how these two interact with each other. Adobe's documentation simply says that Adobe's lens corrections are designed to work on top of the embedded lens profile, and that Adobe's corrections are only available if they feel that the embedded profile is insufficient.
Hey guys who bought the camera. How do you manage color?
Adobe did not release the camera color matching color profiles. Are you using Sony's Edit RAW converter, or you're happy with "Adobe Color"?
Context for my question: the primary reason I moved away from the A7RV was this. Adobe shipped shitty "Adobe Color" profile for it. Way too much magenta which I got tired of fighting.
Here's what I mean:
Camera matching profiles for the A7RV were also comically bad. For the A1 II, on the other hand, Adobe did an excellent job. Not only "Adobe Color" was better, but the camera-matching profiles for the A1 II are nearly indistinguishable from Sony's own.
How's the situation with the A7R VI? I used the RAW image comparison tool on dpreview.com (they use Adobe Color for all cameras), and it appears that the A7R VI shows very different color.
Related rant: I wish Sony would simply ship .dcp files themselves, without having to pray for Adobe to do a good job.
