I posted this in the MFNG thread but I thought I should ask this to a broader audience.
Question about older Nikon bodies, related to MFNG because that's what they would have used and that's what I've got. A few days ago I posted this pic of two bodies I got from a friend Jim.
The one on the right is an F with Photomic meter; Jim said it was from 1973. Sorry, I don't know whether there were different Photomic viewfinders at the time. The one on the left is an F2 with plain veiwfinder which Jim says was from 1980.
I've been resurrecting them slowly. The F seems ready to work though I haven't put a battery in the viewfinder yet. There is a minor smudge in the viewfinder, not really a hindrance. It is definitely in the viewfinder, not the focus screen, but isn't on any of the accessible surfaces. Can the viewfinder be disassembled and cleaned? It looks like some tiny screws might give me access to the prism.
The F2 needs (so Jim said) light seal replacement, and he included what he said was a kit for that. I haven't opened that envelope yet. The viewfinder and focus screen come off easily. Various websites say the F Photomic viewfinder will not fit the F2, and that appears to be true since the front attachment tabs have nothing to grip. But that F2 front plate makes me curious. The small font isn't what I would have expected. It's on the body, not the viewfinder casing, and the viewfinder just says "F". Was the F2 issued with that appearance at one time? Could this have been a home-market version?
I intend to install the light seal strips and put both cameras in service. (I've already started shooting film in my Nikkormat for fun, will post scans when available.. A Wein mrb625 battery make its meter agree with both my Z5II and a light meter app on my phone. We'll have to see how long that battery lasts though.) Don't know yet if that Photomic meter will work. I'm curious about what I'm working with, especially with the F2..
The F2AS was the one I remember everyone wanted. It was the late version for AI lenses with the LED display (that used normal batteries). But I'm not sure why you want that archaic F or F2 experience today.
EB-1 wrote:
But I'm not sure why you want that archaic F or F2 experience today.
EBH
I want to try these bodies because I was gifted them by a good friend (who is keeping another F-something body, his TLR Rolleiflex, and his Leica M4-P). I have even put my 50+ y .o. Nikkormat FTn back into service. All my lenses are vintage F-mount, MF, non-CPU; one is AI-S. They work well on my Z5II w/FTZ.
In the old days I would construct each shot carefully if time allowed, sometimes miss if time didn't. The old lenses recreate that "archaic" experience with film or digital. The Z5II is a marvelous device and for convenience I would love to have a modern AF zoom to shoot everything in an instant. But the thought process and involvement are a different experience, a different kind of fun.
Besides, every lens I've picked up since buying the Z5II has cost me less than $100. A modern Z lens would be 10x to 30x that. If I end up not liking the result or the process of scanning the negatives, then I don't have to continue, no harm done. Those bodies could sit unused on my shelf as easily as they sat on my friend's.
I have a soft spot for the F. It's a beast. A neighbor artist loaned me his mid-'60s F Photomic a couple times when I was a teenager. It had already been replaced by the F2 by 1971, I learned that durability is its most significant feature (its made of iron).
It's the camera that made Nikon the pro journalist's choice. My take-away then was, "I really love shooting a pro camera but it's so frikin heavy."
The light seals probably just refers to the foam on the back of the camera in the grooves if you open the film door. I replaced it on at least one camera back in the 90's, basically i think i just scraped off the old and glued in the new.
I just used hearing aid batteries on film OM-1. I think even back then marked 1.4v , 1.35 rounded is 1.4, they didn't fit right but I nevet had a problem. I did this for years.
My understanding is the Nikkormats marked Nikomat made for the Japanese market so might be F2 stuff out there for Japanese market as well. Yes the F2 AS the expensive finder afaik not sure if it made a lot of difference, might have had Av or something can't remember. I doubt I'd pull apart something that isnt a problem but you might check the price of Photomic finders either way
The first 2 serial numbers are the manufacturer date for F2's could be the same for F's but F3's changed that and date can not be determined from their serial numbers.
fjablo wrote:
Would you mind sharing what you found out about the camera on the left? Looks different to normal F2 eye-level / DE-1 finders.
Imo the Nikon F2 is still one of the nicest film cameras for manual focus. I have an F2AS which is super smooth.
Will do at the bottom of this post.
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AmbientMike wrote:
The light seals probably just refers to the foam on the back of the camera in the grooves if you open the film door. I replaced it on at least one camera back in the 90's, basically i think i just scraped off the old and glued in the new.
I just used hearing aid batteries on film OM-1. I think even back then marked 1.4v , 1.35 rounded is 1.4, they didn't fit right but I nevet had a problem. I did this for years.
My understanding is the Nikkormats marked Nikomat made for the Japanese market so might be F2 stuff out there for Japanese market as well. ...Show more →
taildraggin wrote:
There is a foam seal under the mirror, too.
Yes, the light seals are just the foam in the grooves. The foam for the mirror is a bump-stop, not a light seal per se except perhaps to stop light from the viewfinder getting into the chamber between lens and shutter curtain. The problem Jim was concerned about might not be light leaking in but that the old foam was crumbling and dropping dust into the film chamber. From the videos I've watched, the door seals are simple. The mirror strips require skinny, double-jointed fingers operating single-purpose tweezers made of a special unobtanium-formula alloy. Might be tricky. I'll do the whole thing when I get a few free hours.
From what I've read, the Wein mrb625 was developed specifically to be an environmentally safe, exact replacement for the mercury 625. Its chemistry is zinc reacting with moisture in the air, similar to hearing aid batteries but with fewer holes than hearing aid batteries to let air in. It's downside is that it begins running down as soon as the plastic cover on the vents is removed, though running down faster when used than when not used. They aren't particularly expensive but cost could be bothersome if you need to buy a new one every month or two for a lightly-used camera. Supposedly you can slow them down by covering the hole(s) when you aren't using the camera.
I took my Nikkormat out on a woods walk today and the meter seemed to work great with the Wein battery. (Glad I had it. I've grown used to the Z's automatic exposure and almost forgot to think about it.) But I am considering using alkaline batteries for the F since it needs two of them. I'll test its meter against my Nikkormat, my Z5II, and an app on my phone, adjust ISO to make them agree, and compare them again as the batteries age. Supposedly when an alkaline cell runs down it settles to 1.3v and stays there. So eventually they will behave exactly like the 625 did. We'll see...
Nikomat was indeed the home-market name for what they sold elsewhere as Nikkormat. The first two digits of the serial numbers for those F's agree with what Jim told me about their dates. Not so on my Nikkormat, SN starting with 58.
Now about the appearance of that F2, my first searches showed only the Photomic viewfinder, probably because that's all AI could think about. Stupid AI. A deeper search dug up a facebook page (I avoid facebook whenever possible, which is almost always).
Someone on fb was asking about the appearance of his F2 just like mine. The responses seemed to suggest that that's what a bare-bones F2 with only the simple viewfinder looks like. And of course at least one person pointed out that the big F on the prism was all the visual statement it needed to make. The rest of the controls and details in his picture were exactly like mine. Another article I found describing the F2 said that the plain viewfinder was quite rare and they are sought after now. The focus screens are interchangeable between the F and F2 but the Photomic viewfinder at least is not. My plain prism doesn't seem to want to go on the F though I can't see the reason why not. Maybe it isn't supposed to.
I may take the bodies to my local Hunts and ask about CLA. In the meantime the experiment with the Nikkormat was a bit of a failure. Oh, I took some shots (200mm f/4.0 Nikkor Q), some of which probably came out okay, all of early-arriving ducks (probably Ring-Neck) a bit too far away, not much color in the world yet. But my sweetie didn't like the fact that we couldn't look at them immediately. "That's part of the film experience, dear." She wants me to carry the Z5II with the 300mm f/4.5 AI-S tomorrow. Maybe I'll take both.
jimmuller wrote:
First, thank you all for replying.
Will do at the bottom of this post.
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Yes, the light seals are just the foam in the grooves. The foam for the mirror is a bump-stop, not a light seal per se except perhaps to stop light from the viewfinder getting into the chamber between lens and shutter curtain. The problem Jim was concerned about might not be light leaking in but that the old foam was crumbling and dropping dust into the film chamber. From the videos I've watched, the door seals are simple. The mirror strips require skinny, double-jointed fingers operating single-purpose tweezers made of a special unobtanium-formula alloy. Might be tricky. I'll do the whole thing when I get a few free hours.
From what I've read, the Wein mrb625 was developed specifically to be an environmentally safe, exact replacement for the mercury 625. Its chemistry is zinc reacting with moisture in the air, similar to hearing aid batteries but with fewer holes than hearing aid batteries to let air in. It's downside is that it begins running down as soon as the plastic cover on the vents is removed, though running down faster when used than when not used. They aren't particularly expensive but cost could be bothersome if you need to buy a new one every month or two for a lightly-used camera. Supposedly you can slow them down by covering the hole(s) when you aren't using the camera.
I took my Nikkormat out on a woods walk today and the meter seemed to work great with the Wein battery. (Glad I had it. I've grown used to the Z's automatic exposure and almost forgot to think about it.) But I am considering using alkaline batteries for the F since it needs two of them. I'll test its meter against my Nikkormat, my Z5II, and an app on my phone, adjust ISO to make them agree, and compare them again as the batteries age. Supposedly when an alkaline cell runs down it settles to 1.3v and stays there. So eventually they will behave exactly like the 625 did. We'll see...
Nikomat was indeed the home-market name for what they sold elsewhere as Nikkormat. The first two digits of the serial numbers for those F's agree with what Jim told me about their dates. Not so on my Nikkormat, SN starting with 58.
Now about the appearance of that F2, my first searches showed only the Photomic viewfinder, probably because that's all AI could think about. Stupid AI. A deeper search dug up a facebook page (I avoid facebook whenever possible, which is almost always).
Someone on fb was asking about the appearance of his F2 just like mine. The responses seemed to suggest that that's what a bare-bones F2 with only the simple viewfinder looks like. And of course at least one person pointed out that the big F on the prism was all the visual statement it needed to make. The rest of the controls and details in his picture were exactly like mine. Another article I found describing the F2 said that the plain viewfinder was quite rare and they are sought after now. The focus screens are interchangeable between the F and F2 but the Photomic viewfinder at least is not. My plain prism doesn't seem to want to go on the F though I can't see the reason why not. Maybe it isn't supposed to.
I may take the bodies to my local Hunts and ask about CLA. In the meantime the experiment with the Nikkormat was a bit of a failure. Oh, I took some shots (200mm f/4.0 Nikkor Q), some of which probably came out okay, all of early-arriving ducks (probably Ring-Neck) a bit too far away, not much color in the world yet. But my sweetie didn't like the fact that we couldn't look at them immediately. "That's part of the film experience, dear." She wants me to carry the Z5II with the 300mm f/4.5 AI-S tomorrow. Maybe I'll take both. ...Show more →
I picked up 20cm f/4 several years ago because I liked the cm markings instead of mm. Adapted to Canon not too bad really, mine early 60's.
I hear all sorts of things , granted I haven't used these much in the last 20 years since going digital. But i got about a year out of a hearing aid battery and didn't have to order anything, and got 6-8 for the price of one of the purpose built ones. You're not supposed to use alkalines because voltage drops
If the old foam is crumbling its probably going to leak at some point.
AmbientMike wrote:
I picked up 20cm f/4 several years ago because I liked the cm markings instead of mm. Adapted to Canon not too bad really, mine early 60's.
I hear all sorts of things , granted I haven't used these much in the last 20 years since going digital. But i got about a year out of a hearing aid battery and didn't have to order anything, and got 6-8 for the price of one of the purpose built ones. You're not supposed to use alkalines because voltage drops
If the old foam is crumbling its probably going to leak at some point. ...Show more →
I bought my 200mm new in 1973, I think, maybe 1972, not quite as old as 1960's.
As I wrote earlier, I can monitor the accuracy re voltage by measuring against other meters. I'm curious about those cameras anyway.
And yes I intend to replace the F2's light seals. Something to do on a rainy day.
[Edited to eliminate speculation] Shooting with a non-meter-equipped F or F2 was a lot of fun...try it when it's a bright, sunny day and it's easy to guess the correct (or nearly correct) exposure.
Your F2 body has an F finder. It's got the "F" on top, it's more angular, and no nameplate. F2 plain prisms are more curved and they have the "Nikon" nameplate as part of the finder.
The F2's have the small "Nikon" font in an area that's covered by the much larger nameplate from the finder. It overhangs the front of the body. With F's, the nameplate is screwed to the body and the finder sits behind it. Note the fact that your finder is perfectly flush with the body.
F2 plain prisms aren't exactly rare, they're just not as abundant as the metered versions. They're just priced so that it usually makes more sense to buy a whole camera with the plain prism rather than buying one separately.
Quick pics. The F is the silver one, the F2 is the black one.
OffTrail wrote:
Your F2 body has an F finder. It's got the "F" on top, it's more angular, and no nameplate. F2 plain prisms are more curved and they have the "Nikon" nameplate as part of the finder.
Keith B. wrote:
Shooting with a non-meter-equipped F or F2 was a lot of fun...try it when it's a bright, sunny day and it's easy to guess the correct (or nearly correct) exposure.
He! My first camera, a Russian SLR w/55mm was called Zenit B. It had no meter so I studiously studied (is that redundant?) the fold-outs that came with film. As first I was pretty good but as I gained confidence I began to think I knew what I was doing (and that is definitely redundant). It turns out I didn't. I took a lot of pictures with bad exposures, usually over-exposed. Many were on a long round-the-country auto trip so I didn't see the pics until two months later. Apparently I could guess just fine, and the results looked like I was just guessing.
On a different subject, I found at least four websites with dates and serial numbers for the F2, all with the same tables either taken from Nikon or copied from each other. It turns out the first two digits are not the manufacture date. My F2 says "805xxxx" but the table said July to September 1979.
