p.3 #1 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
Pkash wrote:
Yes Dr. Kaufmann is involved in the process as he controls majority stake, but he is not selling any part of his stake and will still be majority stake holder. Only Black rock is selling its stake.
If the Bloomberg report is accurate that is not what has been quoted. Read it carefully and it seems Kaufmann might sell most of his stake and possibly keeping some percentage.
p.3 #2 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
stgrove wrote:
If the Bloomberg report is accurate that is not what has been quoted. Read it carefully and it seems Kaufmann might sell most of his stake and possibly keeping some percentage.
FWIW, according to Reuters: ( Perhaps still very early in the process, so who knows the level of accuracy of any of these reports vs what might be if any sort of deal goes through or not)
"Buyout group Blackstone (BX.N) has tasked Morgan Stanley (MS.N) with finding a buyer for its 45 percent stake in German iconic camera maker Leica, people close to the matter said on Monday.
While no auction has been officially launched, the private equity firm has started holding meetings with potential future investors such as family offices, the people added."–Reuters
p.3 #3 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
I'd be cautiously optimistic and hopeful if Zeiss bought Leica.
They've been making these ridiculously smooth mirrors for use in chip making (insanely smooth) so I'd hope they'd bring some more manufacturing expertise to improve QC and mechanical reliability.
Something like if the mirrors were enlarged to the size of the earth, the difference betewen the highest and lowest point would be the thickness of a single card from a playing deck.
( Watched a long video on the machines that make the chips ).
Meanwhile Leica loses focus accuracy after a car ride.
Hyperbole, but still. Don't want yearly service where the camera is MIA for half of it and they forgot where they placed the components box and charge you $5K to fax the dude looking for it for an update. One and done unless it falls off a cliff.
p.3 #4 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
Pkash wrote:
Yes Dr. Kaufmann is involved in the process as he controls majority stake, but he is not selling any part of his stake and will still be majority stake holder. Only Black rock is selling its stake.
I guess it depends on which article we read.
Nonetheless, I hope what you wrote is the case as IMO Dr Kaufmann is one of the main players/leaders who drove Leica strategy from near bankruptcy 2004-2005 (?) to record financial success these last four years in a row with some very exciting and desirable new products and systems along the way. Some products more desirable than others of course. YMMV😎
p.3 #5 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
Yogifi wrote:
I'd be cautiously optimistic and hopeful if Zeiss bought Leica.
They've been making these ridiculously smooth mirrors for use in chip making (insanely smooth) so I'd hope they'd bring some more manufacturing expertise to improve QC and mechanical reliability.
Something like if the mirrors were enlarged to the size of the earth, the difference betewen the highest and lowest point would be the thickness of a single card from a playing deck.
( Watched a long video on the machines that make the chips ).
Meanwhile Leica loses focus accuracy after a car ride. Hyperbole, but still. Don't want yearly service, one and done unless it falls off a cliff....Show more →
Some are perhaps mistakenly posting articles from way back in 2017 when Zeiss was allegedly in the running to acquire a controlling share of Leica. However, I haven't seen any info...yet, that Zeiss is considering the same in 2026.
p.3 #6 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
flash wrote:
Maybe Inst360??
They already have a partnership with Leica. Then again so does Huawei.
Gordon
I don't see insta360 doing much with it - has to be someone bigger with more resources and more strategic overlap. Xiaomi, Huawei, etc...heck DJI could buy them and add them to their collection alongside Hasselblad.
Japanese manufacturers don't seem to be investing in this space either so would be surprising if it were one of them - mostly profit taking. I don't think Zeiss would either - they would've done it at a cheaper valuation years ago if they wanted it - probably just sniffing around for competitive intelligence.
Best case if you like the current trajectory that leica is taking is a private equity fund invests but it looks like they're looking for someone to pay big if they're willing to offer a controlling.
p.3 #7 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
If we are talking a controlling stake, given what they have done with Hasselblad, DJI would probably be a best case scenario. Another Chinese company that is actually interested in acquiring a camera business rather than a brand name would be second best. Unlike what some people believe, I think they are more interested in preserving the heritage than, say, LVMH (or equivalent), while investing into R&D to keep the company going.
A US-based private equitiy fund would be the worst.
p.3 #9 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
Most likely will be Andreas Kaufman. He wouldn't want to lose significant control over Leica to a Chinese company. They have the money. Blackstone was a way to get capital when they needed it. Leica is a far better company today than they were 15 years ago.
A nice secondary investor would indeed be Panasonic in my opinion, but I doubt Kaufman would want that. Interesting in either case.
p.3 #10 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
crf59 wrote:
Most likely will be Andreas Kaufman. He wouldn't want to lose significant control over Leica to a Chinese company. They have the money. Blackstone was a way to get capital when they needed it. Leica is a far better company today than they were 15 years ago.
A nice secondary investor would indeed be Panasonic in my opinion, but I doubt Kaufman would want that. Interesting in either case.
I get the sense that Kaufmann is more likely to exit than aquire more. His earlier sale of 45% means he has an asset with a zero cost basis. For sure his family will not want more ownership.
p.3 #11 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
LBJ2 wrote:
the private equity firm has started holding meetings with potential future investors such as family offices, the people added."–Reuters.
In some respects this sounds reassuring as the 'right' family office could indeed be someone with an interest in Leica beyond just maximizing returns. With deep enough pockets, it could be a passion project while still advancing the company. Basically that is Kaufmann now. Or? Family office and moving Leica forward.
That said, a family office could be just as driven to maximize returns as a corporate investor, whether from the US, EU, China, etc.
In these kinds of situations, does Kaufmann have any say over who Blackstone sell to (if it's only Blackstone's shares)?
p.3 #12 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
The majority share holder always has a very real say in such things. Whether by contract or by practicality. Who would want to be a junior stake holder in a company where the majority stake holder doesn't want you?
On the other hand there are legal consequences if the majority holder is obstructing the ability of the junior to realize the value of his asset.
Family offices are often potential problems. I would prefer a generic PE firm to be honest. Less personal adgendas.
p.3 #13 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
Having Blackstone involved in Leica could potentially be a terrible idea. Thei business model in LBOs (leveraged buy outs) is that they use a very small amount of their own money and then borrow heavily to pay for the purchase of the company, then transfer that debt directly to the balance sheet of the acquired company. The histroy is full of previously successful companies that has been forced to file chapter 11 because of this.
Once they have their claws in, the make the acquired company borrow more money to pay "dividends" to the LBO firm (think J. Crew, Neiman Marcus, PetSmart, etc). Meanwhile the LBO firm often strip away assets, like brand name, into a separate entity that older lendors cannot touch. It is a discusting business model IMO.
I'm not saying that this will happen to Leica, but when you are going to bed with these guys, you better watch out and lawyer up.
p.3 #14 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
patotts wrote:
Having Blackstone involved in Leica could potentially be a terrible idea. Thei business model in LBOs (leveraged buy outs) is that they use a very small amount of their own money and then borrow heavily to pay for the purchase of the company, then transfer that debt directly to the balance sheet of the acquired company. The histroy is full of previously successful companies that has been forced to file chapter 11 because of this.
Once they have their claws in, the make the acquired company borrow more money to pay "dividends" to the LBO firm (think J. Crew, Neiman Marcus, PetSmart, etc). Meanwhile the LBO firm often strip away assets, like brand name, into a separate entity that older lendors cannot touch. It is a discusting business model IMO.
I'm not saying that this will happen to Leica, but when you are going to bed with these guys, you better watch out and lawyer up. ...Show more →
You are a bit late for that sort of comment. Blackstone has been a 45% owner and involved in Leica since 2011. The current discussion has been prompted by Blackstone, and possibly the Kaufmann family's desire to exit their Leica position.
PE and investing in companies through M&A is not necessarily a "disgusting" business model. It is often the best way to move a company/brand forward. Leica is just one example of that. The Blackstone/Kaufman ownership period, both of whom are primarily financial entities not camera industry ones, has been a strongly positive to this point. We will see how the exit of their position and new ownership works out.
p.3 #15 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
1bwana1 wrote:
You are a bit late for that sort of comment. Blackstone has been a 45% owner and involved in Leica since 2011. The current discussion has been prompted by Blackstone, and possibly the Kaufmann family's desire to exit their Leica position.
PE and investing in companies through M&A is not necessarily a "disgusting" business model. It is often the best way to move a company/brand forward. Leica is just one example of that. The Blackstone/Kaufman ownership period, both of whom are primarily financial entities not camera industry ones, has been a strongly positive to this point. We will see how the exit of their position and new ownership works out....Show more →
Thanks for that update, I wasn't aware but the problems arrive when a LBO firm has a controlling stake, which is what they are going for now.
I know LBO is used widely as a turn around tool, and there are examples of it succeeding, like Hilton Hotels, but personaly I am just higly concerned when these companies get involved deeply. They are seldom customer-centric and do what is best for the consumer/product - they are in it for maximizing profits.
I hope I am wrong for Leica, but as pointed out in the thread, it is higly likely that they will focus on making Leica a powerful fashion/luxury brand first.
p.3 #16 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
1bwana1 wrote:
That is not the information I have read in multiple reports. In fact the origional report that started this thread and is the source of all the rumors explicitly said that the deal being shopped around is for a controlling interest and that Kaufmann may choose to reinvest after that deal has been completed. I am in possession of this original report document.
Do you have a source that says that Kaufmann is not selling shares?
I do not have any document and I don’t believe you have any either as nobody writes contracts before the seller is identified. It’s too early for any documents. But I am giving information from high level contacts within Leica. In fact, apart from Bloomberg, no other outlet including German ones, are reporting that Dr.Kaufmann is selling. Time will tell
p.3 #17 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
This is becoming very speculative. We have reports that Blackstone is looking to sell its Leica stake, around 44%, and now there are rumors that the Kaufmann family may also be selling his shares, roughly 66%.
At this point, we do not know what is actually happening. Blackstone's potential sale could be related to knowledge of Kaufmann's intentions, but that is purely speculation. Until official documents or statements are made public, this should be treated as rumor rather than fact.
p.3 #18 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
stgrove wrote:
Not being rude, but who cares.
I do.
1. M11 series - Either a Rolex Milgauss or one of those Horage Lensman models
2. MP (film) - Speedmaster 321 or maybe that Horage "sunny 16" calculator watch.
3. SL series. - Apple Watch
4. Dlux 8 - Apple Watch
p.3 #19 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
patotts wrote:
I know LBO is used widely as a turn around tool, and there are examples of it succeeding, like Hilton Hotels, but personaly I am just higly concerned when these companies get involved deeply. They are seldom customer-centric and do what is best for the consumer/product - they are in it for maximizing profits.
I hope I am wrong for Leica, but as pointed out in the thread, it is higly likely that they will focus on making Leica a powerful fashion/luxury brand first.
These are incredibly valid concerns to me. I'd love to see data on what generally happens when PE comes into organizations - how often they flourish, how often they don't, how often the benefits are strictly profit, how often the benefits are of the kind customers can enjoy and support... There are so many ways it can go. When I was involved in PE deals early in my legal practice, I had my doubts that these guys were going to really make things better for the targets they were acquiring. My experience was a pretty small sampling though.
As it stands, it does seem to me that Leica is a bit stuck as a purveyor of artisanal quality goods with software and electronics that are often far behind other imaging companies selling their wares for a lot less money. Leica can (to a point) justify the premiums based on brand, heritage, build characteristics, and the uniqueness of the experience (at least with the M), but I do wonder if Dr. Kaufmann is wondering whether that approach is sustainable for the next 20 years. That their foray into wristwatches hasn't caught fire doesn't really surprise me given how brand- and heritage conscious watch buyers can be. No one is going to spend $10K on a Leica watch when they could get an Omega, Breitling, or even certain Rolexes for less.
p.3 #20 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
Pkash wrote:
I do not have any document and I don’t believe you have any either as nobody writes contracts before the seller is identified. It’s too early for any documents. But I am giving information from high level contacts within Leica. In fact, apart from Bloomberg, no other outlet including German ones, are reporting that Dr.Kaufmann is selling. Time will tell
Actually there are documents. Not contracts because those are created at closing. At this point the documents consist of deal sheets and prospectus. These are being circulated to capable parties to guage interest. They are the basis of the various reports by the financial press. Of course you don't beleive that retained investment banking firms approach their clients without such document. It is public that such a firm has been retained.
Employees of a company in play are not informed. They are purposely kept out of the loop. Not withstanding the water cooler gossip that inevitably takes place.
Kaufmann holdings are absolutely in play depending on buyer interests and requirements.
