p.2 #1 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
SlowDriver wrote:
Wouldn't that just be a continuation of the direction that present day Leica has already taken?
Leica hasn't been doing as many luxury collaborations recently. E.g. we haven't seen a Hermès edition since the M9-P. (Not that I'm the target audience for this.)
p.2 #2 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
weatherproof wrote:
Leica hasn't been doing as many luxury collaborations recently. E.g. we haven't seen a Hermès edition since the M9-P. (Not that I'm the target audience for this.)
I am not talking about special editions but about the standard M.
The Leica M was already a luxury product, and during the last 6-8 years Leica has done everything it could to further solidify it in that position, a/o by yearly price increases.
When you increase the price of a luxury product its desirability also goes up. Leica understands that very well.
p.2 #3 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
I'm outside of the Leica community, but an interested observer. I always thought that the Leica watches were a bad idea and reinforced the conception that Leica cameras were luxury jewelry and were "worn" for their value as bling. I think serious Leica photographers, like those here, would mostly resent that implication of the introduction of the watch and would not want to buy one.
From the outside, it does look like Leica is approaching a transformational moment in its history. There is the emergence of the M EV1, which marks a decisive first step away from the basic mechanical rangefinder design of the M, which is now nearly 100 years old; the increaed prominence of the SL and Q camera lines; and the rapid developments taking place in AF, IBIS, and computational technology, mostly in the Sony, Canon, and Nikon lines of cameras--all of which inevitably put at least some pressure on Leica to innovate, and that innovation is taking place outside of the foundational rangefinder design.
All of these factors may make it an opportune time for present owners of Leica equity to look for a buyout.
p.2 #6 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
An interesting aspect about Kaufmann is that he seems pretty in-tune with the photographic side of things at Leica. It would be a shame to lose that if a new majority owner is just some private equity/VC firm looking strictly at maximizing returns.
If you consider what Leica was 20 years ago compared to now, it's been a pretty amazing evolution. Certainly there has been significant focus on expanding the luxury side of the brand, but technologically there has been a ton of progress, too. And some of that has got to be setting up the company as an attractive investment to facilitate a profitable exit by Blackstone and/or Kaufmann. I wouldn't say the 'purely' photographic side has suffered because of it. The current gear (especially cameras) is many times better than a few model generations ago. How much of that would continue with an owner more focused on extracting returns, or less in tune with photography? We don't know. It would probably depend on how much they mess with the people who actually plan and produce Leica's products.
Not saying it couldn't happen though, as there are a lot of wealthy individuals/families out there and there's bound to be someone with a more genuine interest in Leica's photographic cachet and its continuation. No idea though if someone would pick up Leica for $1B just for fun. Kind of doubt it.
I agree though that it probably won't be an already established photographic brand, though wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being a Chinese company/investor.
p.2 #7 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
If Chinese other than DJI, I have serious concern for the future. As was pointed out Kaufmann likes photography and when he speaks within the company all listen. Without him at the rudder, where will the company go? $15k M bodies and $25k S4 body. Yikes.
p.2 #9 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
stgrove wrote:
If Chinese other than DJI, I have serious concern for the future. As was pointed out Kaufmann likes photography and when he speaks within the company all listen. Without him at the rudder, where will the company go? $15k M bodies and $25k S4 body. Yikes.
I don’t understand why Chinese entity is a concern here. From history Chinese business strategy mindset is to make things cheaper and sell more.
p.2 #10 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
rscheffler wrote:
An interesting aspect about Kaufmann is that he seems pretty in-tune with the photographic side of things at Leica. It would be a shame to lose that if a new majority owner is just some private equity/VC firm looking strictly at maximizing returns.
He will also turn 73 years old this year. Maybe this also plays into the decision.. although you'd think someone like him would hate to see something he built destroyed by some stupid private equity doods..
p.2 #11 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
tigerlo wrote:
I don’t understand why Chinese entity is a concern here. From history Chinese business strategy mindset is to make things cheaper and sell more.
Sure they are very good at producing things in very high quality, very efficiently and at scale. But while I have a lot of respect for Chinese culture, I think valueing and preserving heritage is not exactly their strength. E.g. compare how they rebuild or maintain their historical sites (in and around Beijing for example) and compare that to how it's done in Europe (in Rome, Venice, Paris, etc..) - they tend to turn things into mass tourism Disneyland, completely ruining the sites that would otherwise be among the most amazing in the world.
And while I previously said we shouldn't compare to DJI too much (as they were a consumer-facing photography-adjacent company before, whereas here we're talking private equity), even with DJI I wonder how much of Hasselblad is still being designed and manufactured in Sweden? Sure they do something on the cameras so they can put "handmade in Sweden" on the bodies, but is that really legit?
Imo you can't optimize Leica's cost structure too much (e.g. by moving more production out of Germany) without ruining the company in the long run. This won't show up in any spreadsheet though.
p.2 #13 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
fjablo wrote:
And while I previously said we shouldn't compare to DJI too much (as they were a consumer-facing photography-adjacent company before, whereas here we're talking private equity), even with DJI I wonder how much of Hasselblad is still being designed and manufactured in Sweden? Sure they do something on the cameras so they can put "handmade in Sweden" on the bodies, but is that really legit?
FWIW, this is what Google says:
Yes, Hasselblad cameras are still designed, developed, and manufactured in Gothenburg, Sweden. While owned by Chinese drone manufacturer DJI, the company maintains its headquarters and engineering team in Sweden, where they focus on Scandinavian design, and perform assembly, testing, and calibration for their medium format cameras. Key Details Regarding Manufacturing & Design:
Design & Engineering: The core development and design philosophy for X System and H System cameras remain in Gothenburg.
Production: Current flagship models, such as the X2D 100c and 907x 100c, are still produced and assembled in Sweden.
Components: While camera bodies are made in Sweden, some components like accessories (chargers, batteries) are made in China, and many lenses are produced in Japan.
Handmade Focus: Hasselblad emphasizes a "handmade in Sweden" approach for their high-end cameras, including rigorous, individualized testing.
p.2 #15 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
1bwana1 wrote:
Dr Kaufman is said to be participating in the sale. So, it is a majority stake that is being offered. The statement said that the Kaufmann family may re-invest in Leica after the sale. I believe that implies that 100% of the company is on the table, subject to negotiations.
The reported interest from Zeiss is from way back in 2017. I see no reference to interest from Zeiss in the current offering.
The fact that a large investment bank has been hired to negotiate a deal means to me that a sale is more likely than not.
Yes Dr. Kaufmann is involved in the process as he controls majority stake, but he is not selling any part of his stake and will still be majority stake holder. Only Black rock is selling its stake.
p.2 #16 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
SlowDriver wrote:
FWIW, this is what Google says:
Yes, Hasselblad cameras are still designed, developed, and manufactured in Gothenburg, Sweden. While owned by Chinese drone manufacturer DJI, the company maintains its headquarters and engineering team in Sweden, where they focus on Scandinavian design, and perform assembly, testing, and calibration for their medium format cameras. Key Details Regarding Manufacturing & Design:
Design & Engineering: The core development and design philosophy for X System and H System cameras remain in Gothenburg.
Production: Current flagship models, such as the X2D 100c and 907x 100c, are still produced and assembled in Sweden.
Components: While camera bodies are made in Sweden, some components like accessories (chargers, batteries) are made in China, and many lenses are produced in Japan.
Handmade Focus: Hasselblad emphasizes a "handmade in Sweden" approach for their high-end cameras, including rigorous, individualized testing. ...Show more →
Sorry but AI-generated responses are not reliable information. Might be true, might not be true.
p.2 #18 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
Pkash wrote:
Yes Dr. Kaufmann is involved in the process as he controls majority stake, but he is not selling any part of his stake and will still be majority stake holder. Only Black rock is selling its stake.
That is not the information I have read in multiple reports. Do you have a source that says that Kaufmann is not selling shares?
p.2 #19 · "Blackstone Could Sell Control Of Leica In €1 Billion Deal "
Pkash wrote:
Yes Dr. Kaufmann is involved in the process as he controls majority stake, but he is not selling any part of his stake and will still be majority stake holder. Only Black rock is selling its stake.
That is not the information I have read in multiple reports. In fact the origional report that started this thread and is the source of all the rumors explicitly said that the deal being shopped around is for a controlling interest and that Kaufmann may choose to reinvest after that deal has been completed. I am in possession of this original report document.
Do you have a source that says that Kaufmann is not selling shares?
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