p.1 #1 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
Due to the inspiration the more interesting environment brings, I take my best shots while on vacation. My vacation photos consist mostly of landscapes, close-up and macro shots of plants or critters, cityscapes or environmental portraits...and cats. My most used lenses are Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 APO and CV 110/2.5 APO. On the wide end, there's the Laowa 15/2, on the tele end the Nikon 300/4 PF VR.
Since I don't travel alone, my company always has to wait for me to change lenses. It gets more annoying when a polarizing filter is involved that I share between lenses. There have been several occasions where I didn't take a shot because the constant lens changing annoyed myself.
I have long been interested in Tamron's 35-150/2-2.8 but it's both not fast enough to replace my primes and optically not quite as good. I've had the Sony 24-105/4 as a convenient addition but used it very sparsely because I found f/4 too limiting and its oof rendering way too harsh.
Enter Sony's 28-70/2 GM - prime-like performance and just as fast.
I'm more or less convinced this could be my do-almost-everything lens. But before I jump in and spend a shitload of money, I want to ask you if I've thought of everything. What would I gain, what would I lose?
What I've gathered:
Gain:
- Flexibility/ convenience
- AF
- Weather sealing
- Less optical and mechanical vignetting than Zeiss Loxia 25/2.4 and CV 50/2 APO
- Slightly smoother background oof rendering than CV 50/2 APO
Lose:
- Slightly harsher foreground oof rendering than CV 50/2 APO
- Very distinct sunstars
- Magnification on the wide end
- Magnification on the long end compared to CV 110/2.5 APO
- Lack of distortion
- Edge resolution of CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5
- Astigmatism correction of CV APO lenses
- Freedom of filter selection
- Option to use close-up lenses?
What is important to me but couldn't find anywhere:
How are sunstars with the Sony? I've seen some shots that showed better than expected sunstars starting at f/5.6. Is this true?
Can you use a 77mm Marumi DHG or Canon 500D without hard vignetting? Obviously with the help of a 86-->77 step-down ring.
What's the maximum magnification on the wide end?
Does it exhibit field curvature?
(I'm not sure yet if I'll be able to let go of my primes but that's a question for later.)
p.1 #2 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
I am not usually one to worry about weight of a lens, but the 28-70/2 is 2.5-3x the weight of all but the 110 lens. That can feel like a lot. You also have the difference between AF and MF…this really is about how you prefer to shoot. If you like MF and that provides part of the enjoyment, then a big AF lens may be a step backwards.
The cost of the lens is significant. You could spend half or less of that on a used body in great condition and attack this problem in a different way. Just have your two lenses you expect to use the most on different bodies. That also allows you to have those bodies configured differently… one set to f/13 for landscapes and the other to f2 or whatever for portraits.
If you really like your existing lenses, I’d consider that approach. Use a body. Love a lens. Used bodies will tend to retain their value, so even experimenting with that approach has fewer financial consequences than selling off your lenses and replacing them with one you are not sure you’ll like as much.
p.1 #3 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
The differences between these mf primes and zoom are so radical when thinking of size, handling and typical use case, that differences in rendlining are secondary concern.
Maybe keep the primes and buy 24-70 GMII. It is reasonable size and optically as good as a mid-range zoom can be, just not f/2
p.1 #4 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
I can't imagine it's possible to replace those sophisticated, high build quality MF lenses with the best corner sharpness wide open with any zoom lens. One of the most advantage of primes for me the pure minimalism, I have to see in one focal length, force me to be creative.
p.1 #5 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
While I thank you for taking the time to comment, neither answers any of my questions nor solves my problem.
@tuomkok
I've had a Tamron 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 some years ago.
I've sold them after rather short ownership, recognizing that f/2.8 is too slow for general use (for me). The Sony 24-70 surely is a better lens but it's still only f/2.8. Taking my primes + the 24-70 would make little sense.
@Grenache
A second body isn't actually that stupid of an idea but my camera bag is already full when doing day trips. Theoretically I could keep my lenses and still buy the 28-70 it's just that I don't want to become a lens hoarder.
The weight of the 28-70 is a factor but I've also traveled with the Sigma 35/1.2 + 85/1.4 and didn't mind it.
p.1 #7 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
Egg Salad wrote:
While I thank you for taking the time to comment, neither answers any of my questions nor solves my problem.
@tuomkok@
I've had a Tamron 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 some years ago.
I've sold them after rather short ownership, recognizing that f/2.8 is too slow for general use (for me). The Sony 24-70 surely is a better lens but it's still only f/2.8. Taking my primes + the 24-70 would make little sense.
@Grenache@
A second body isn't actually that stupid of an idea but my camera bag is already full when doing day trips. Theoretically I could keep my lenses and still buy the 28-70 it's just that I don't want to become a lens hoarder.
The weight of the 28-70 is a factor but I've also traveled with the Sigma 35/1.2 + 85/1.4 and didn't mind it....Show more →
Well, if you are not open to being a lens hoarder, you definitely should not take advice from me.
Personally, I am a 90% prime shooter. The 16-35 GMii is fantastic, and I have managed to love that one. Otherwise, in my experience, even when I have a great copy of a zoom (eg, 100-400 GM), as soon as a good prime in that range comes along (300 GM), I basically stop using the zoom. I can't envision going in the reverse direction: good primes swapping to a zoom. I could only see doing that, if I didn't like the primes.
I also think that unless you are operating at the wide end (eg 16-35 or wider), a ~2x zoom is not very useful. 28-70 is probably a wide enough range to be meaningful, but I would usually cover that with just a fast 35 or 50.
p.1 #8 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
@Kevner
Yes, I've totally considered that and will probably do it but am "afraid" the shiny-new-toy syndrome will be so strong, I'll want one instantly.
@Grenache
I already have 9 lenses (all primes) but knowing me I think I know how this will turn out...
I've done the mistake to sell the CV 50/1.2 to fund the CV 50/2 and still regret it.
The 28-70 range isn't massive but compared to stopping every few minutes to pinch one lens between my leg while handling the other one, then unscrewing and screwing a filter on - in the mountains, near a river or while it drizzles - it is super convenient.
Like Grenache and many others in this forum I could be considered a lens hoarder. With 50+ lenses, I own both primes and zooms although my preference is to shoot manual focus primes. Like you, I used to travel with a lot of lenses but a few years back I started to shift my thinking and now travel with 1 or 2 prime lenses unless I have a specific need for a larger lens kit. Sometimes I will take one of my two zoom lenses (24-50 G or 24-70 GMII) but that is infrequent. I enjoy the challenge of carrying fewer lenses and suggest that before you swap out your kit try cutting back to 1 or 2 on one of your trips. You might find it more enjoyable.
p.1 #10 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
Use a tracking app to find your party after your done playing with your gear. That way they don’t have to wait for you.
I have more than a dozen Sony lenses for my A7CR, including three Loxias. I have two APO Lanthars and have another one order for my Leica M cameras. These are all amazing lenses in their own way and can’t be fully replicated via zoom lenses.
I solved the same problem in a different way. So, for your purposes, I’m way off topic. I have covered most of the focal lengths that are your “most used lenses”.
I’m willing to work the environment with the limitations of the camera/lens that I have in hand. In other words, I’m willing to miss shots that you would get. The flip side is that due to my limitations in gear, I might get shots that you don’t see. I’ve replaced the Sony as my travel camera with the Hasselblad X2D and now the X2Dii and two lenses. I will mostly use the XCD 35mm-100mm (Macro .25x, which is .323x at 60Mpix). With the very powerful IBIS, I can match the low light handheld capabilities of your fastest lenses and come close regarding bokeh. I’m at 100Mpix at a 35mm equivalent of 28mm and at 60Mpix at a full frame equivalent of 103mm. Total weight is 1710gm. The zoom provides quality almost on par with Hasselblad prime lenses and all of the XCD primes that I own are APO. Sony colors have greatly improved over the years, but they aren’t on par with Hasselblad. I’ve been primarily Sony since the days of the Nex-7. That said, my compromise works great for me, but no longer lenses and when/if they come out, I won’t be willing to carry around a long medium format lens..just too much weight/bulk.
Missing a few ultra long telephoto shots just might be a reasonable compromise should it mean being able to fully vacation with your family/friends. You probably already use a tracking app.. I do.. I also track my luggage, camera and camera bag.
p.1 #11 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
Lately I travel with 2 Sony A7CR bodies and three lenses. The lenses I carry rotate among the Sony 16-24 and 25-50 small zooms, the Sigma 24/3.5, 45/2.8, 65/2, 90/2.8. Two lenses are on the two cameras, and one extra is in the bag. All of this fits very comfortably in a small bag, the Wotoncraft Pilot 7L. The cameras are easy to reach quickly and mostly I make whatever lens is on the camera to work with the subject matter that is available. I would prefer these small lenses on small camera bodies to the giant, heavy lens you are contemplating, even though it is clearly a superb lens. The f/2 max ap gets some bokeh, which i agree is desirable; but for speed, the diference between f2 and f2.8 doesn't seem significant in the world of high iso sensors and AI noise reduction.
I would like to own the lens you are contemplating, but I don't think I would ever want to travel with it.
p.1 #12 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
@bwcolor
A tracking app? To track what? Me no understand. When flying, I take my camera bag inside the cabin, when driving, it's in my trunk.
I sometimes miss shots due to MF or the time needed to change lenses but your approach wouldn't work for me.
@chiron
As for the weight: building a kit with the 28-70 would actually save me some weight - but only because the CV 110/2.5 is so heavy. Sure, there's a difference in carrying a <400g lens and one at 918g but it's my back that hurts, not my hand.
As said before the two-camera solution isn't stupid but I 1. already look touristy enough with one camera dangling around (which isn't ideal when doing climbing shenanigans), I 2. don't have enough space to fit a second body in my backpack (Lowepro Protactic 450 AW II) and 3. would have to update 2 camera bodies somewhen.
Before giving in to GAS, I think I'll test first if I can travel with less lenses. Maybe just 25/50/110 or 25/75/300.
p.1 #13 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
Egg Salad wrote:
@bwcolor@
A tracking app? To track what? Me no understand. When flying, I take my camera bag inside the cabin, when driving, it's in my trunk.
I sometimes miss shots due to MF or the time needed to change lenses but your approach wouldn't work for me.
@chiron@
As for the weight: building a kit with the 28-70 would actually save me some weight - but only because the CV 110/2.5 is so heavy. Sure, there's a difference in carrying a <400g lens and one at 918g but it's my back that hurts, not my hand.
As said before the two-camera solution isn't stupid but I 1. already look touristy enough with one camera dangling around (which isn't ideal when doing climbing shenanigans), I 2. don't have enough space to fit a second body in my backpack (Lowepro Protactic 450 AW II) and 3. would have to update 2 camera bodies somewhen.
Before giving in to GAS, I think I'll test first if I can travel with 15/25/75/300....Show more →
Not sure what is unclear. Track your friends and you can always find them even if you are left behind. Tracking other items is only useful should you leave your gear somewhere, or it is stolen. Right? Obviously, I wasn’t suggesting that there would be a value tracking your gear when it is under your control.
p.1 #14 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
@bwcolor
Ah, I see. No, I never traveled in a group. It's just me and someone else (mostly my gf). So it's not about getting lost but about making her wait because it just so happens that there's never the right lens on the camera...
p.1 #15 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
FWIW, as a recovering hard core prime shooter ....I have been happy on trips with the Sigma 28-45 and Sony 50-150. Sure, they are big and heavy...but so are the very large number of primes I'd end up taking (because that's how I roll.) While some of my primes are better, for the type of trip where I have to be cognizant of lens switching, it's worked pretty well. I've also shot my GFX100S II and GF 20-35/4 (and used the GF 35-70 a bit too) along with the a7R V and 28-45/50-150 on Sony.
While I know you're looking for feedback, if you're like me, it comes down to deciding to try it and that's the ultimate way to know for sure (at some cost.)
It's hard to beat the sunstars on your primes BTW (I have all of the ones you mention as well). I haven't shot the 28-70/2, so can't give input on how it compares.
So this probably wasn't all that helpful, but no offense if you didn't find any value in it. No harm, no foul. I kept seeing the post jump to the top, then float down, then jump to the top, etc.
p.1 #17 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
Egg Salad wrote:
@bwcolor@
Ah, I see. No, I never traveled in a group. It's just me and someone else (mostly my gf). So it's not about getting lost but about making her wait because it just so happens that there's never the right lens on the camera...
You need to learn to see the world through the lens on your camera rather than the one in your pack. I love going out with just a single focal length…really focuses my view to what works with just that one lens.
p.1 #18 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
With a great zoom like the 28-70 you don't need any other lenses in the pack and if you don't twist the zoom ring you can focus on what works with each focal length - best of both worlds!
p.1 #19 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
There are push factors (what you don't like in your current setup) and pull factors (the functionality of the proposed replacement). If I may say, image quality may not be the main thing here, as you don't say what you feel are losing in that respect. It's the lens change issue that is the big push factor.
Your lens usage seems to suit you using a zoom of this kind. On your pluses and minuses list I would add two minuses:
(i) that all images will look the same using a zoom, so you have to really like what you get in the way of image rendering. And your various genres cover a fair range of subject matter.
(ii) and on a modern Sony body, this kilo class lens will give you a 2,000 gram carry - all the time it is on the body.
Your proposed uses need mid-apertures? If so, you may look for a lighter-smaller-easier handling zoom, and add a light prime if the need arises. Reviews are plentiful for Sony lenses: Lenstip, Dustin Abbott, Chris Frost.
But why not try it? You will probably be down $600-800 on resale; alternatively why not buy from an FM member for the reduced price? Photography is a journey, it costs of course but if it is worth it to you..no one can really help with much of this as it is so personal, so you are on your own, like all of us. best of luck.
p.1 #20 · Replace Loxia 25/2.4, CV 50/2 and CV 110/2.5 APO with Sony 28-70/2 GM?
rd4tile wrote:
With a great zoom like the 28-70 you don't need any other lenses in the pack and if you don't twist the zoom ring you can focus on what works with each focal length - best of both worlds!
Except you are holding a big heavy bulky lens in your hands all day rather than a light compact prime.
....I have been happy on trips with the Sigma 28-45 and Sony 50-150. Sure, they are big and heavy...but so are the very large number of primes I'd end up taking (because that's how I roll.) While some of my primes are better, for the type of trip where I have to be cognizant of lens switching, it's worked pretty well. I've also shot my GFX100S II and GF 20-35/4 (and used the GF 35-70 a bit too) along with the a7R V and 28-45/50-150 on Sony.