SrMi wrote:
The only way that I know how to handle the lack of BBF is to use manual focusing with Q cameras. Luckily, manual focusing works quite well with Qs.
Absolutely right! But obviously, it would have been much easier with BBF.
KLaban wrote:
OK, girls, enough of the handbags at dawn. Let's try and get this thread back on-topic.
1bwana1, it could be helpful if you answered Smogg's question in posts #15 & #17.
Agree. So, let's get this thread back on track and take a look at situations where BBF is very useful and see what other ways we could handle the situation using different methods.
So one of those here that practices BBF techniques please present a specific situation and we will give it a go. Lets turn this thread into a useful learning experience. Let's be open to new ways of doing things, and accepting of those who do things differently.
1bwana1 wrote:
Agree. So, let's get this thread back on track and take a look at situations where BBF is very useful and see what other ways we could handle the situation using different methods.
So one of those here that practices BBF techniques please present a specific situation and we will give it a go. Lets turn this thread into a useful learning experience. Let's be open to new ways of doing things, and accepting of those who do things differently.
Which is exactly why I suggested you look at Smogg's posts #15 & #17 and answer the question he directed at you.
1bwana1 wrote:
I did, I was hoping for a more detailed set of situation criteria, Maybe encouraging others to also post some to enhance the learning.
One setting for all occasions, you'll never have to change it, and the joystick will become unnecessary - BBF+tracking.
1. If the target is a moving person anywhere in the frame, then, having captured them in focus, you simply hold BBF down continuously (recomposing if necessary) and press the shutter button at the right moment.
2. If you need prefocus, for example, on a chair in the corner of the frame, you aim at the chair, recompose, press the shutter immediately, or release BBF if you need to wait for an event (a decisive moment) or change settings. This is much faster than doing the same thing with the joystick.
3. You need to take a photo from an awkward position using the LCD. If you hold the shutter button half-pressed for too long in such a situation, your hand will fall off. Using BBF, you focus from a comfortable position, then release BBF and wait for the decisive moment.
This technique never requires switching between focus modes. After capturing a person jumping, you're ready to shoot a static scene in a second, then stop in another second and wait 5 minutes for the mall door to open and a clown in a green hat to emerge, because the mall sign is red and you need a complimentary color.
Implementation in the Leica Q3: There's an AF-L function that can be assigned to any button. In AF-S mode, you first need to move the focus cross to the desired area (this is difficult and time-consuming without a joystick, and practically impossible with gloves), then pressing the assigned button starts the focusing process until success or failure (it can't be interrupted). Furthermore, any change to any setting (for example, exposure compensation) after this disables the locked focus, and you need to start focusing again. Once you finally take the shot, you must remember to disable AF-L before taking any further shots, otherwise focusing will not occur and the focus will remain locked.
In tracking mode, AF-L makes tracking constant, without pausing. Therefore, while waiting for the decisive moment, the battery drains very quickly, and a situation often arises where an unwanted passerby crosses the shooting line and... you have to start all over again, the focus has followed them.
Do you still think this is a well-thought-out and adequate replacement for BBF?
So, let's take these situations one at a time and discuss it. Then move on to the next. Please let's all keep in mind that this is a learning discussion where we explore alternative workflows to address the same situation. It is not to decide which way is best. Everyone can and should decide that for themselves.
Smogg wrote:
1. If the target is a moving person anywhere in the frame, then, having captured them in focus, you simply hold BBF down continuously (recomposing if necessary) and press the shutter button at the right moment.
Another way is to:
Set as large a focus area as possible that way you are free to compose at will instantly.
Set Continuous AF so the camera automatically adjust to changes.
Set the appropriate subject mode. In this case probably human so we have multiple options including body, face, eye.
Set tracking to on so that the subjects is followed around the scene.
All of this can be configured instantly with one button by using "Profiles".
Doing it this way one can watch the subject move around the scene, compose as he likes, when the subject approaches a desirable position and gesture the shutter button can be half pressed and when confirmation is shown shoot the shot. Or one can hold the shutter button half way down, track the subject in real time in the viewfinder and full press to make the shot at the decisive moment. This works reliably even at wide apertures with narrow depth of field, and dynamic subjects, as the cameras tracking and continuous focus reacts much faster than we ever could focusing and recomposing with Single Focus on a BBF button.
True the half press of the shutter button and the BBF button can operate exactly the same on a properly configured camera. It seems that the Q3 engineering team decided on favoring this method over BBF. It should be possible to give users the choice.
Smogg wrote:
In AF-S mode, you first need to move the focus cross to the desired area (this is difficult and time-consuming without a joystick, and practically impossible with gloves),
Why do you need to do this? That is what the combination of Continuous AF, Subject Recognition, and tracking is designed to avoid. Just set a Focus Area that covers the whole scene. If you need to pick an individual subject out of multiple that is easily and almost instantly done with the Joystick. Easier and faster that BBF focus and recompose. It is just differences in muscle memory.
So, let's take these situations one at a time and discuss it. Then move on to the next. Please let's all keep in mind that this is a learning discussion where we explore alternative workflows to address the same situation. It is not to decide which way is best. Everyone can and should decide that for themselves.
Another way is to:
Set as large a focus area as possible that way you are free to compose at will instantly.
Set Continuous AF so the camera automatically adjust to changes.
Set the appropriate subject mode. In this case probably human so we have multiple options including body, face, eye.
Set tracking to on so that the subjects is followed around the scene.
All of this can be configured instantly with one button by using "Profiles".
Doing it this way one can watch the subject move around the scene, compose as he likes, when the subject approaches a desirable position and gesture the shutter button can be half pressed and when confirmation is shown shoot the shot. Or one can hold the shutter button half way down, track the subject in real time in the viewfinder and full press to make the shot at the decisive moment. This works reliably even at wide apertures with narrow depth of field, and dynamic subjects, as the cameras tracking and continuous focus reacts much faster than we ever could focusing and recomposing with Single Focus on a BBF button.
True the half press of the shutter button and the BBF button can operate exactly the same on a properly configured camera. It seems that the Q3 engineering team decided on favoring this method over BBF. It should be possible to give users the choice.
I often don't know in advance what I'll be shooting next. A person might be three-quarters covered by an obstacle, and the camera won't recognize them. In that case, I'll aim the tracking device at a scene detail that's in the same plane as them and take the shot without wasting time changing the profile.
When you need to change the profile, you first press the assigned button, which takes you to the current (unsaved) profile (if, for example, you've adjusted the composition). A second press to the right takes you to the default profile, and a third press takes you to the first of your saved profiles. Then, if you're lucky and the first profile is the one you want, all you have to do is press enter. The result: at least four presses, if you're lucky.
I agree that everyone should use their preferred shooting technique, and I don't insist on the one I suggest. I'd be happy to learn a faster way to do this.
1bwana1 wrote:
Why do you need to do this? That is what the combination of Continuous AF, Subject Recognition, and tracking is designed to avoid. Just set a Focus Area that covers the whole scene. If you need to pick an individual subject out of multiple that is easily and almost instantly done with the Joystick. Easier and faster that BBF focus and recompose. It is just differences in muscle memory.
I need to focus on a small window in a huge house. The window is in the corner of the house. The camera doesn't have a joystick. What should I do?
By the way: have you tried pressing the D-pad or the center button on the Leica q3 while wearing gloves? And this is necessary to select the desired profile.
Smogg wrote:
I need to focus on a small window in a huge house. The window is in the corner of the house. The camera doesn't have a joystick. What should I do?
Set the camera up (profile) for Single Focus, with small Focus Area, Tracking can be either on or off, half press shutter, recompose full press shutter to take the shot. Pretty much the exact workflow of BBF just using half press.
Smogg wrote:
By the way: have you tried pressing the D-pad or the center button on the Leica q3 while wearing gloves? And this is necessary to select the desired profile.
Why? Almost any control can be configured to select user profile, even a wheel so no button has to be pressed just scroll to the profile with the configuration you want. BBF you still must press a button...
1bwana1 wrote:
Set the camera up (profile) for Single Focus, with small Focus Area, Tracking can be either on or off, half press shutter, recompose full press shutter to take the shot. Pretty much the exact workflow of BBF just using half press.
After recomposing without tracking, the focus will no longer be precise. So I'll have to turn on tracking anyway. OK, now let's add a little complexity to this scene: the focus is on the window, the tracking is buzzing and continues to lock onto the window, but I have to wait a while for Juliet to look out the window, and she, like all women, is late. Your finger holds the shutter button halfway down, and after a while you start to hate Juliet because your finger gets tired.
1bwana1 wrote:
Why? Almost any control can be configured to select user profile, even a wheel so no button has to be pressed just scroll to the profile with the configuration you want. BBF you still must press a button...
BBF is always under the thumb, there is no need to look for it, the thumb is activated at a certain moment and for the required time.
Smogg wrote:
After recomposing without tracking, the focus will no longer be precise. So I'll have to turn on tracking anyway. OK, now let's add a little complexity to this scene: the focus is on the window, the tracking is buzzing and continues to lock onto the window, but I have to wait a while for Juliet to look out the window, and she, like all women, is late. Your finger holds the shutter button halfway down, and after a while you start to hate Juliet because your finger gets tired.
Well under that scenario wouldn't you have to hold the BBF button down too? Just a question of which digit gets tired?
In such a situation I would have configured the camera differently so that no button had to be held down. Maybe even Manual focus, and waited comfortably with gloves on for Juliet to finish her drink and look out the widow. On the Q3 that can be done with a button click or a simple click on the lens itself.
Smogg wrote:
By the way: have you tried pressing the D-pad or the center button on the Leica q3 while wearing gloves? And this is necessary to select the desired profile.
Exactly my point that set off everyone about the BBF and the smallest button on the Q3-
The only button you could really use you can barely feel without gloves much less with anything on your fingers-
Photo of how little its rasied- Could you imagine trying to focus all the time with that? Or with a glove on? No chance
RustyRus wrote:
Exactly my point that set off everyone about the BBF and the smallest button on the Q3-
The only button you could really use you can barely feel without gloves much less with anything on your fingers-
Photo of how little its rasied- Could you imagine trying to focus all the time with that? Or with a glove on? No chance
Agreed the Q is not physically the best designed camera for a BBF implementation. It was designed and optimised in hardware and software for a different workflow, Which I guess has been your position all along.
