p.3 #1 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
highdesertmesa wrote:
Voigtlander should make a small run of olive lenses — not new ones, just a set of their more popular lenses. Maybe they even tweak the external designs so they all share the same filter size.
Absolutely. Cosina should release a matte green Safari version of your most popular, currently in-production lenses! The shade of green already used on the older Bessa RF bodies is remarkably close to Leica's Safari finish.. I suspect many Leica users would jump at the chance to pair Cosina "safari" lenses with their green Leica Safari M bodies, while others would simply appreciate having something different from the usual black or silver options.
p.3 #3 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
panos.v wrote:
Not really, the Safari and BP version are normal run cameras with just a small price premium. So it is very possible that someone may fork an extra £100 just for the green colour on the body. They just need some nice cheap green VMs to go with it.
I wouldn't call the premium for special versions like the Safari and BP "small" compared to the standard M11. And even if it is so "small", why would "cheap green VMs" then be needed supporting exactly my point above?
p.3 #4 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
panos.v wrote:
Not really, the Safari and BP version are normal run cameras with just a small price premium. So it is very possible that someone may fork an extra £100 just for the green colour on the body. They just need some nice cheap green VMs to go with it.
Although this is accurate, I don't doubt that in the future, many people will erroneously think that the M11-P Safari was a special edition when it was introduced. Leica discontinued it due to lack of sales, not because it was a numbered production run like the M10-P Safari.
The same applies to the M11 Glossy Black Paint and the M10-R Glossy Black Paint. The difference is that the M11 Glossy Black Paint appears to have sold better than the M11-P Safari and is still in production by Leica.
p.3 #5 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
I really thought the m11 safari sales were just fine like still people looking for one not until they realised no longer on the market?
Or may be it’s just simply a normal production run which leica failed to mention it’s in limited batch? Just actually like any other special prior to M11.. like the safari M10p and M10 r BP
Make one batch or few and disappear
It’s good though leica did mention its normal production run so no scalpers crazily enough bumped the price during initial release
p.3 #6 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
retrofocus wrote:
I wouldn't call the premium for special versions like the Safari and BP "small" compared to the standard M11. And even if it is so "small", why would "cheap green VMs" then be needed supporting exactly my point above?
BP is M11, so obviously cheaper. £100 extra for a green one is basically less than 2% over the base price. So very conceivable that someone decides to spend that money to choose a colour.
On the other hand, matching that green camera to green Leica lenses means that you have to spend another £4000-5000+ on a single lens. So suddenly your £8000 purchase is £12000+. A VM lens would make the total purchase £9000 or less.
You could say anyone buying a £8k camera has plenty of money but if you're buying a complete new kit the entry fee is under £10k for a body and a couple of VM lenses vs £17-18k. This is a very significant amount of money for effectively no real measurable benefit other than the colour of the lenses.
Then again...silver lenses do go quite well with the Safari bodies!
BP is M11, so obviously cheaper. £100 extra for a green one is basically less than 2% over the base price. So very conceivable that someone decides to spend that money to choose a colour.
On the other hand, matching that green camera to green Leica lenses means that you have to spend another £4000-5000+ on a single lens. So suddenly your £8000 purchase is £12000+. A VM lens would make the total purchase £9000 or less.
You could say anyone buying a £8k camera has plenty of money but if you're buying a complete new kit the entry fee is under £10k for a body and a couple of VM lenses vs £17-18k. This is a very significant amount of money for effectively no real measurable benefit other than the colour of the lenses.
Then again...silver lenses do go quite well with the Safari bodies!...Show more →
Still - I highly doubt Safari kit (call it special edition or not, it is definitely not a standard one) buyers care about spending several thousand of dollars or pounds more. The targeted user group for Safari cameras and lenses are enthusiasts and also some collectors who might intend to sell the purchased kit after a while. My point is that this group of buyers is different from the ones who buy mostly used Leica M camera gear and maybe once a new regular/standard Leica M camera. For the latter group CV lenses are interesting because this group is price considerate. Safari gear buyers mostly would shine away buying a non Leica based M lens even if CV made them in the same greenish color and look. I doubt that such cheaper CV green edition M lenses would see much love from regular Leica M users either - they will stick to either chrome or std black versions. I break Leica M users down into the following 3 main groups with the top group willing to afford the highest price:
1. Leica M collectors: go after special camera/lens editions or unique vintage ones
2. Leica M enthusiasts: go after camera editions which are more available but different from the std ones. Black paint and safari editions come in mind here.
3. Leica M users: The bottom group. Go after the standard Leica camera gear, buying used is common. CV and Chinese manufacturers focus on this group to produce more affordable but higher quality gear.
p.3 #8 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
retrofocus wrote:
Still - I highly doubt Safari kit (call it special edition or not, it is definitely not a standard one) buyers care about spending several thousand of dollars or pounds more. The targeted user group for Safari cameras and lenses are enthusiasts and also some collectors who might intend to sell the purchased kit after a while. My point is that this group of buyers is different from the ones who buy mostly used Leica M camera gear and maybe once a new regular/standard Leica M camera. For the latter group CV lenses are interesting because this group is price considerate. Safari gear buyers mostly would shine away buying a non Leica based M lens even if CV made them in the same greenish color and look. I doubt that such cheaper CV green edition M lenses would see much love from regular Leica M users either - they will stick to either chrome or std black versions. I break Leica M users down into the following 3 main groups with the top group willing to afford the highest price:
1. Leica M collectors: go after special camera/lens editions or unique vintage ones
2. Leica M enthusiasts: go after camera editions which are more available but different from the std ones. Black paint and safari editions come in mind here.
3. Leica M users: The bottom group. Go after the standard Leica camera gear, buying used is common. CV and Chinese manufacturers focus on this group to produce more affordable but higher quality gear. ...Show more →
No one is buying new Leica Safari lenses right now with the intent to resell them later. If they are, they'll just break even after they pay auction/eBay fees. Look back now at the 50 Cron Safari. It sells for around what it did new. Zero profit and more likely taking a loss with those sales.
And although it's beside the point, collectors do buy limited edition Voigtlanders. Example: the silver and brass Voigtlander 35mm f/1.4 (version I) made exclusively for Map Camera.
But we're not asking for that, we just want a regular run olive lenses. Special editions but only limited to whatever demand might bring – just like they only make very few silver lenses for every run of black ones. By your logic, we wouldn't have silver lenses, either.
Leica themselves have moved toward making their lenses with special finishes unlimited runs. The kind of lenses that used to be reserved for special limited runs that no one could afford or even get in line for are now available to everyone at a small markup compared to the overall price of the lens. For example, look at all the lenses they offer now in glossy black paint. Those used to be unobtainable by the average Leica buyer, either by price or by scarcity or both.
I like Leica's new direction to make more of the special lenses available to everyone. One of the previous draws to Voigtlander is they offered black paint on brass. Now we can get that with Leica, too. So bring on the Voigtlander olive lenses!
Would also mention that the current 50 f/3.5 APO in olive isn't what I'm asking for. While I owned one and appreciate them for what they are, they're oddball lenses that don't appeal to the mainstream. I'd like to see their more popular lenses in olive, not the more unusual ones.
p.3 #9 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
highdesertmesa wrote:
I like Leica's new direction to make more of the special lenses available to everyone. One of the previous draws to Voigtlander is they offered black paint on brass. Now we can get that with Leica, too. So bring on the Voigtlander olive lenses!
I truly appreciate Leica's new direction. It removes the artificial sense of exclusivity that fuels the collector mentality, where people buy items simply because they're rare instead of using and enjoy them. I would much rather see these lenses in the hands of photographers than sitting unopened on a shelf. It also helps move photography away from becoming a speculative investment market, something Leica has encouraged for years with its limited editions and artificially scarce releases.
p.3 #10 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
There may be "Hammertone" finish lenses in future to go with the rumored, limited edition Hammertone M11-P (Source: leicarumors.com). Makes me think M12 may not be anytime soon.
p.3 #11 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
jigesh wrote:
There may be "Hammertone" finish lenses in future to go with the rumored, limited edition Hammertone M11-P (Source: leicarumors.com). Makes me think M12 may not be anytime soon.
Wow, the Hammertone (autocorrect keeps changing it to HammerTOE ) finish cameras are an acquired taste. I was hoping we'd get an M11-P Reporter soon, but now we'll have two grey finishes in a row instead.
p.3 #12 · Leica releases four new M lenses in Safari and Glossy Black designs
Fred Miranda wrote:
I truly appreciate Leica's new direction. It removes the artificial sense of exclusivity that fuels the collector mentality, where people buy items simply because they're rare instead of using and enjoy them. I would much rather see these lenses in the hands of photographers than sitting unopened on a shelf. It also helps move photography away from becoming a speculative investment market, something Leica has encouraged for years with its limited editions and artificially scarce releases.
Just what my new to me Voigtlander Bessa R2 needs M mount Voigtlander olive for the olive camera and go safari film on the economy side
It also helps move photography away from becoming a speculative investment market, something Leica has encouraged for years with its limited editions and artificially scarce releases.
) finish cameras are an acquired taste. I was hoping we'd get an M11-P Reporter soon, but now we'll have two grey finishes in a row instead.