It appears the the OP here is quite the gearhead and camera collector. But he is not a photographer. Going back as far as the site lets you see his posting history, ALL of his posts are about his gear and problems or questions about settings and things like that. NONE of his posts presented any of his images and none have been in response to any images that have been posted anywhere on FM. I've never seen him in any photo presentation forum. Just gear talk. And he has the balls to accuse a respected and longstanding photographer such as Imagemaster of being a troll! I don't know why anyone is taking anything about this thread or person seriously.
Jeffrey wrote:
It appears the the OP here is quite the gearhead and camera collector. But he is not a photographer. Going back as far as the site lets you see his posting history, ALL of his posts are about his gear and problems or questions about settings and things like that. NONE of his posts presented any of his images and none have been in response to any images that have been posted anywhere on FM. I've never seen him in any photo presentation forum. Just gear talk. And he has the balls to accuse a respected and longstanding photographer such as Imagemaster of being a troll! I don't know why anyone is taking anything about this thread or person seriously....Show more →
Nice try Tony...
Here's my post from last week with links to my galleries.
In answer to thread title, cameras are complex these days because people keep demanding more options That leads to the overcrowded menus with labels that make sense to their engineers, even though it might not be what you call it. If you want simple, Leica M and the Hasselblad 907x are very simple, and film cameras that use manual lenses, like my X-570, have no menus, so they're even simpler.
As for the problem you're experiencing, samples will help, along with a rundown of how they were shot and what you see as the issue.
p.3 #10 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
freaklikeme wrote:
As for the problem you're experiencing, samples will help, along with a rundown of how they were shot and what you see as the issue.
"Patience young grasshopper", they may appear some day.
p.3 #11 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
Sony cameras are very complicated beasts. They have capabilities most of us will never use. The menu system, either old or new can seem arbitrary in its grouping of settings.
My suggestion would be to reset all your settings to factory. Then, as someone suggested, go into Auto or Program mode with a simple stationary subject in good light to make sure there's nothing wrong with the camera. Progress from there one step at a time to see where and why the camera seems to fail.
Despite the camera's complexities most of us, over time, have figured out the camera's and our limitations. You are not getting a lot of sympathy because your problems seem broad and generalized. You are venting your frustrations and impatience. You come off as someone who bought a new car and asks perfect strangers how to drive it.
If you actually want help you need to focus on the exact problem and supply as much information as possible. Examples are invaluable.
My take on this is you're trying to run before you can walk. If you can shoot an a7c you should be able to shoot an a7iv. The menu's aren't the same, but the basic concepts are the same.
Slow down and enjoy the learning experience.
p.3 #12 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
You throw around insults that you have lenses older than some members here and that you’ve been a ‘photographer’ longer than some members here have been alive - but if your Flickr is representative of your work - please stop throwing insults at people who are trying to help. You may have old gear, lots of gear, and gear older than some of us, and while most forum users are an insufferable lot - you could use a bit of reflection about your skill as a photographer.
snegron7 wrote:
Nice try Tony...
Here's my post from last week with links to my galleries.
p.3 #13 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
Modern cameras are actually imaging computers of great complexity. It's not surprising that many long time photographers switching systems now may have a hard time adjusting that changing environment. And as with a computer it takes patience, time and study to figure out how everything works.
p.3 #14 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
sandycrane wrote:
Sony cameras are very complicated beasts. They have capabilities most of us will never use. The menu system, either old or new can seem arbitrary in its grouping of settings.
My suggestion would be to reset all your settings to factory. Then, as someone suggested, go into Auto or Program mode with a simple stationary subject in good light to make sure there's nothing wrong with the camera. Progress from there one step at a time to see where and why the camera seems to fail.
Despite the camera's complexities most of us, over time, have figured out the camera's and our limitations. You are not getting a lot of sympathy because your problems seem broad and generalized. You are venting your frustrations and impatience. You come off as someone who bought a new car and asks perfect strangers how to drive it.
If you actually want help you need to focus on the exact problem and supply as much information as possible. Examples are invaluable.
My take on this is you're trying to run before you can walk. If you can shoot an a7c you should be able to shoot an a7iv. The menu's aren't the same, but the basic concepts are the same.
Slow down and enjoy the learning experience....Show more →
Thank you! I agree with you 100%! I think one of my mistakes was when I took the A7iv out of the box and charged oys battery, I immediately tried setting it up to the same swttings I have on my A7c. That's when I noticed that the menus are not the same. I'm guessing I didn't set it up correctly, so a re-fresh might be the way to go.
My second mistake was venting here. While there are many helpful members here, there are a few who are quick to hurl put generalizations and insults without providing any usefull feedback or suggestions. A few of them are known trolls who always bait people into arguments for whatever reason.
However, the good members (like yourself) outweigh the trolls here, so that's why I still post here.
p.3 #15 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
bmike-vt wrote:
You throw around insults that you have lenses older than some members here and that you’ve been a ‘photographer’ longer than some members here have been alive - but if your Flickr is representative of your work - please stop throwing insults at people who are trying to help. You may have old gear, lots of gear, and gear older than some of us, and while most forum users are an insufferable lot - you could use a bit of reflection about your skill as a photographer.
Thank you for taking the time to actually view my post that I provided as a reference.
Am I the greatest photographer in the world? No. However, most of the albums you viewed on my Flickr were either gear tests, snapshots, or favors for friends.
Maybe it would be pleasing to you (and Tony the Troll) if I posted the thousands of images I have taken since purchasing my first film SLR in 1979. Mybe I should post images of all the weddings I shot for years. However, that's not going to happen.
Judge me all you want (as you did in your response). It is 100% irrelevant to me. And please don't mistake this as me being rude. I'm simply (as politely as possible) expressing my personal opinion that I don't really care if you or anyone else likes my work or not.
Also, if at some point on this thread, you have posted any tips on how to BETTER UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEX MENU SYSTEM of the A7iv, then thank you.
p.3 #16 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
snegron7 wrote:
Also, if at somw point on this thread, you have posted any tips on how to BETTER UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEX MENU SYSTEM of the A7iv, then thank you.
Maybe nobody wants to take away your challenge.
snegron7 wrote:
I've had the R6II for a while; the A7IV arrived today (...)
My reason for shooting both is that I enjoy the challenge (...)
p.3 #18 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
The menu system is not complex, it just takes a bit to get used to something different. I held off on Sony for a long time… (always used Canon) until I handled the a7Iv in a local shop, and realized the menus were so much better than previous cameras I handled.
You still have not posted anything concrete to go on. What menus did you try to change / modify? What are you struggling with? You have not posted any images with notes on what you feel is wrong and why you think the menu system is to blame. Is it autofocus? Tracking? Electronic shutter? Etc etc.
When I moved from crop sensor to full frame I had a bit of learning curve primarily around DoF and getting a feel for how to rethink framing shots.
When I moved from Canon DSLR to Sony mirrorless I certainly had to learn menus and also how different features are available than what I was used to. Editing took a bit of a mindset change more than how the camera handled or functioned. Aperture is still a hole that lets in light, shutter is still how quickly that hole is available to let in light, and ISO is still signal gain on the light that hits the sensor. Manual focus still worked with peaking available and AF was drastically improved.
Unless you have set up something completely sideways, have corrupted firmware installed, or have lenses that need updating or broken - maybe you have a bad camera. But without images, specific setting examples, and notes about what you feel is wrong… we can all just guess.
You are the expert here with decades of experience - yet you are approaching this problem like someone who has never handled a camera before.
Images
Settings
Maybe screen shots of menus you think are suspect
Factory reset
Firmware update
Tripod shots with a lens know to work well on your a7c
Etc etc.
Otherwise your feelings and ego won’t solve this, and no one here will continue helping.
snegron7 wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to actually view my post that I provided as a reference.
Am I the greatest photographer in the world? No. However, most of the albums you viewed on my Flickr were either gear tests, snapshots, or favors for friends.
Maybe it would be pleasing to you (and Tony the Troll) if I posted the thousands of images I have taken since purchasing my first film SLR in 1979. Mybe I should post images of all the weddings I shot for years. However, that's not going to happen.
Judge me all you want (as you did in your response). It is 100% irrelevant to me. And please don't mistake this as me being rude. I'm simply (as politely as possible) expressing my personal opinion that I don't really care if you or anyone else likes my work or not.
Also, if at some point on this thread, you have posted any tips on how to BETTER UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEX MENU SYSTEM of the A7iv, then thank you....Show more →
p.3 #19 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
bmike-vt wrote:
The menu system is not complex, it just takes a bit to get used to something different. I held off on Sony for a long time… (always used Canin) until I handled the a7Iv in a local shop, and realized the menus were so much better than previous cameras I handled.
You still have not posted anything concrete to go on. What menus did you try to change / modify? What are you struggling with? You have not posted any images with notes on what you feel is wrong and why you think the menu system is to blame. Is it autofocus? Tracking? Electronic shutter? Etc etc.
When I moved from crop sensor to full frame I had a bit of learning curve primarily around DoF and getting a feel for how to rethink framing shots.
When I moved from Canon DSLR to Sony mirrorless I certainly had to learn menus and also how different features are available than what I was used to. Editing took a bit of a mindset change more than how the camera handled or functioned. Aperture is still a hole that lets in light, shutter is still how quickly that hole is available to let in light, and ISO is still signal gain on the light that hits the sensor. Manual focus still worked with peaking available and AF was drastically improved.
Unless you have set up something completely sideways, have corrupted firmware installed, or have lenses that need updating or broken - maybe you have a bad camera. But without images, specific setting examples, and notes about what you feel is wrong… we can all just guess.
You are the expert here with decades of experience - yet you are approaching this problem like someone who has never handled a camera before.
Images
Settings
Maybe screen shots of menus you think are suspect
Factory reset
Firmware update
Tripod shots with a lens know to work well on your a7c
Etc etc.
Otherwise your feelings and ego won’t solve this, and no one here will continue helping.
Thanks! I'll be posting some test shots on Tuesday (working until Monday, and the boss won't approve of me bringing my camera to work).
I agree with you regarding the steep learning curve of any new camera. Some cameras are easier to learn than others. When I went from a 6dmk2 to an R6 then R6II, the menus had some similarities, so it wasn't too difficult to learn the newer settings on the R6II.
I assumed it would be the same going from my A7c to the A7iv. However, I encountered what appeared to be a very different menu system. I attempted to set up my A7iv to the same settings as I had on my A7c, but it didn't work out quite as I expected.
My "frustration" came after Googling the menu system of the A7iv and purchasing David Busch's book and noticing that they all seemed to be refrencing items in the menu that were not only completely different from one another, but also different from my particular A7iv!
So, assuming that the Google info and the book info were compiled by AI software, I resorted to posting here (and venting my frustration as well).
On my second or 3rd response to my original post, I indicated what my current settings were that I applied on my A7iv. Hopefully on Tuesday I'll be able to get some test shots to post here as examples (super busy non-photography related work schedule limits my time a bit).
p.3 #20 · Why is my A7iv so Complicated to Set Up?
Samsung users find the iOS interface illogical and complicated, iPhone users find the One UI interface illogical and complicated. Both are simultaneously right and wrong. It's similar with cameras. My friend has a Q3 and can't even find his way around in its menu.
And he, unlike me, is extremely tech-savvy.
Personally, I don't care about the menu. The advantage of Sony is its customizability. I've assigned all the buttons and switches so I don't need to access any menus. There are a few things in the quick menu that I might need someday, and that's it for me. It's a one-time setup, and that's it.
