stevemya123 wrote:
I’m planning to buy a 28 Norton and now since the apo was announced I’m torn between the two. Please help me decide. I have a 40 1.2 and it’s great but for a 28mm not sure which one I want. Mostly photographing street with it. Thanks.
Warning: What follows is speculative hoohaw:
Based on my brief experience testing the 28 Z Nokton and interpolating for "street photography" (which can mean many things), if you are after a gritty, edgy, chaotic look (like Willian Klein did in the 1950's) or shooting on grainy film, the Nokton will probably serve you well. If you are after the cooler, cleaner, more straight-ahead look (like 1970's Garry Winogrand or Joel Meyerowitz), it might be worth waiting for the Apo.
Also, in the event you should need a "clean", high detail rendering across the frame such as is frequently employed in landscape photography, the Apo (based on my Z Apo 35/2 and reports on the other existing Apo Lanthars) would be your choice. Who knows-- you might want both.
graytrekker wrote:
There seem to be two threads going now on this lens. I posted this over on the other one:
I wonder why they changed the design of the focus ring for the E-mount, but kept the "traditional" knurled design for the Z-mount?
It's going to be the "ugly duckling" amongst my other CV lenses
The other thread is review thread of VM version of the lens and this one is discussion thread about the upcoming E-mount and Z-mount versions (cross-posted in Sony & Nikon forums).
They have used this new design style for all their new E-mount releases since 2024 (this is the 5th release with this new styling), and it seems they decided to stick with the new styling rather than go for consistency with the existing E-mount APO-Lanthars. I personally like the new styling even better. I have the other APO-Lanthars too and all the new releases they have already put out with this new styling (50/1, 75/1.5, 28/1.5, 75/1.8).
As a Z mount user, I wish we were getting the fine ridged focus grip that E mount users are getting on the newish Voigtlanders. The 'scalloped' focus grip being used on the Z lenses looks cool, and it was lovely in the 1960's on all those Pentax lenses, but the world has moved on.
Keith B. wrote:
As a Z mount user, I wish we were getting the fine ridged focus grip that E mount users are getting on the newish Voigtlanders. The 'scalloped' focus grip being used on the Z lenses looks cool, and it was lovely in the 1960's on all those Pentax lenses, but the world has moved on.
Couldn’t disagree more. Imo the Nikon style looks nicer and is nicer in handling..
Keith B. wrote:
Warning: What follows is speculative hoohaw:
Based on my brief experience testing the 28 Z Nokton and interpolating for "street photography" (which can mean many things), if you are after a gritty, edgy, chaotic look (like Willian Klein did in the 1950's) or shooting on grainy film, the Nokton will probably serve you well. If you are after the cooler, cleaner, more straight-ahead look (like 1970's Garry Winogrand or Joel Meyerowitz), it might be worth waiting for the Apo.
Also, in the event you should need a "clean", high detail rendering across the frame such as is frequently employed in landscape photography, the Apo (based on my Z Apo 35/2 and reports on the other existing Apo Lanthars) would be your choice. Who knows-- you might want both.
If the majority of your shots are to 'capture an instant' in daylight with a 28, you only need to set the lens at 10-12 ft and f/8. That's one of the advantages of shooting 28 on the street.
Since all lenses today are about the same at f/8, the only desirable feature is that it be small and light.
That's how Bresson, Gilden, Klein, Leiter, Winogrand, Arbus, etc. shot. Some of their photos may exist that have MFD, bokeh, or narrow DoF / fast apertures as factors, but I don't recall any. (See Winogrand's definition of "illustrator" vs "photographer").
Of course, folks shoot AF28 with good results. Can't argue with that, but I'm not comfortable with it. I tried the Z 28/2.8 for street. Great lens, but snap shooting with AF, it often focuses on the wrong thing, particularly in chaotic scenes. It's out-of-control and why I use manual CV lenses on the Zf.
Neither the Nok (nor the APO) are the best street lenses, at least not the fatter, heavier Z versions (said with side-eyed envy looking at the Leica mount options.... Something like the tiny 28/2.8 Color-Skopar would be.) I'd argue that an iPhone has good enough IQ for street, but handling is too slow and awkward.
Given that it has been announced, does anyone have a review copy?
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I picked up the Japanese product leaflets for both the E and Z versions of this lens (from Fujiya Camera) and scanned them. https://photos.app.goo.gl/3rE1PTVsfx2EeC279
I don't think Cosina sends out review copies too much in advance if at all. Sometimes some Japanese YouTubers get some loaners but not much in advance and some Japanese camera stores like Map Camera may post reviews / articles just before release. Fred and others may get review loaners from CameraQuest close to release as well. I haven't seen any reviews on the E or Z mount versions of the lens yet but that would be quite normal situation with CV lenses.
thewiseoldbird wrote:
Given that it has been announced, does anyone have a review copy?
What do you think are the chances of a redesign to match the aesthetic of the other apo-lanthars on sony?
It's still bugging me. It's like they used the same parts they're making for the nokton.
As is I can barely tell the difference between it and the nokton with the lens cap on.
At least the focus ring if they don't have space for the logo at the top - I know they have it when looking at the front glass.
It's not like that at all.
The focus ring you want is used in the Nikon version.
Canon and Sony have similar rings.
Chances of a redesign? I'd say zero.
Sooner or later someone will try and have a Nikon focus ring fitted to a Sony lens, revealing if it will fit.
If it does fit, they're fairly simple lenses to disassemble and therefore cheap.
There's always a chance of a redesign later for a Mark II, the Z versions got that, bringing the current (superior) aesthetic to the line. Sony users should be glad they are getting that on the 28
Yogifi wrote:
What do you think are the chances of a redesign to match the aesthetic of the other apo-lanthars on sony?
It's still bugging me. It's like they used the same parts they're making for the nokton.
As is I can barely tell the difference between it and the nokton with the lens cap on.
At least the focus ring if they don't have space for the logo at the top - I know they have it when looking at the front glass.
I think Cosina would only do a redesign if the lens failed to sell as well as expected and they got a lot of market feedback indicating that the design is the reason and customers would have preferred the old style. All their new E-mount releases since 2024 (after they had a 3 year break with E-mount releases) have used this new styling (as have their Canon RF mount lenses). I think it's because they believe the new styling is good/better. I personally like the new styling a lot even though I have no problem with the previous one either. The diamond knurling also provides a very firm grip.
With Nikon 50/2 and 35/2 they did redesign the AL lenses for version II quite early and I think it was because the original tapered versions didn't sell as well as expected and their later Z-mount releases like 40/1.2 for Z that had a new and better / more balanced design sold much better. Even now the Z-mount version of this 28/2 lens is wider with a bigger filter diameter than E-mount and VM, probably to avoid a tapered look where the base would be wider than the main barrel.
For me the 28/1.5 E-mount version looks and feels great and it's pretty much the same width as the E-mount which makes it feel well balanced, unlike e.g. 50/1 which narrows down a lot towards the mount.
I'm not bothered if APO design changes as long as the handling improves: you can only use one at a time & I'm regularly switching between Sony, Sigma, CV etc. I'm not bothered about having them all in a nice tidy row on a shelf.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I think Cosina would only do a redesign if the lens failed to sell as well as expected and they got a lot of market feedback indicating that the design is the reason and customers would have preferred the old style. All their new E-mount releases since 2024 (after they had a 3 year break with E-mount releases) have used this new styling (as have their Canon RF mount lenses). I think it's because they believe the new styling is good/better. I personally like the new styling a lot even though I have no problem with the previous one either. The diamond knurling also provides a very firm grip.
With Nikon 50/2 and 35/2 they did redesign the AL lenses for version II quite early and I think it was because the original tapered versions didn't sell as well as expected and their later Z-mount releases like 40/1.2 for Z that had a new and better / more balanced design sold much better. Even now the Z-mount version of this 28/2 lens is wider with a bigger filter diameter than E-mount and VM, probably to avoid a tapered look where the base would be wider than the main barrel.
For me the 28/1.5 E-mount version looks and feels great and it's pretty much the same width as the E-mount which makes it feel well balanced, unlike e.g. 50/1 which narrows down a lot towards the mount....Show more →
I also usually just go out with one lens and one camera at a time and there are already a few different styles applied with earlier CV lenses for E-mount, e.g. the traditional style and the Nokton SE style, before the new diamond knurling style. I have a mix of all styles across my CV E-mount lenses (7 in the traditional style, 3 in SE style, 4 in the new diamond knurl style before the 28/2 AL arrives).
thewiseoldbird wrote:
I'm not bothered if APO design changes as long as the handling improves: you can only use one at a time & I'm regularly switching between Sony, Sigma, CV etc. I'm not bothered about having them all in a nice tidy row on a shelf.
Choderboy wrote:
It's not like that at all.
The focus ring you want is used in the Nikon version.
Canon and Sony have similar rings.
Chances of a redesign? I'd say zero.
Sooner or later someone will try and have a Nikon focus ring fitted to a Sony lens, revealing if it will fit.
If it does fit, they're fairly simple lenses to disassemble and therefore cheap.
The focus direction on Nikon lens is opposite of Sony lens, with all the markings on the opposite side as well, and the filter diameters of the lenses are φ58mm for Nikon and φ49mm for Sony, with the Nikon lens having a larger diameter overall. I don't think the Nikon focus ring from this lens could be fitted to the Sony version of the lens given those differences.
Cosina announced the official release date for the E-mount version of the lens today. It's 12/12. That will apply at least to Japan market, although other markets typically start around the same time.
I was happy with the 28 nokton as it matched (enough) with my 40/50 SE Noktons.
