duncangr wrote:
When it comes from Nikon you look for a big improvement, when it comes from Sony you just look to see if they have made anything worse...
I mean .... it's not hard to get any "big improvement" when you start low to begin with
I installed it on my A1 II on Friday and was able to take around 6,500 photos (Friday and Saturday evening) at a large event with over 20,000 people at night for Halloween. I can say that the AF has improved enormously. I feel like I have a new camera body.
In low light, it locks on and detects more easily with fewer misses. I find it strange that there isn't more buzz about it on YouTube or elsewhere.
In any case, it's not a subtle update; it really adds something extra.
duncangr wrote:
When it comes from Nikon you look for a big improvement, when it comes from Sony you just look to see if they have made anything worse...
, i haven't updated my a7iv for that reason, im not game to upgrade something thats been 100% for me over the last 3 years.
I finally had an opportunity to test this new version of firmware over the weekend and by all accounts I am very happy with the overall performance of the AF system. An acquaintance of mine owns a falconry - birds of prey rehab centre and I dropped by on the weekend to photograph some of his birds both in stationary position and in flight.
There were three takeaways for me personally from the session.
When capturing launches off the perches the sequences were all in perfect focus. On previous firmware versions there often would be a frame or two out of focus as the AF system caught-up to the subject launching, did see this behaviour with any of the multitude of sequence that I shot with the new firmware.
The AF is much more sticky on the subject even when there are busy background and foreground objects, this was always a problem for me on the previous version of firmware, really evident when photographing Harriers for example that fly very low to the ground. I shot a bunch flight sequences of a Red-tailed hawk flying very low to the top of ground brush and grasses in the background and foreground and the system stuck to the hawks eyes consistently. I only observed one sequence when the hawk was extremely close where the AF drifted from the eye to the hawks wingtip.
The ability to stick to the subject when it becomes obstructed by foreground objects is really impressive. I have a number of sequences where a Harris Hawk flies through some tall grasses and the system recovers to the subject after passing through multiple obstruction, it never focussed on the object, that was really impressive.
I didn't get an opportunity to photograph small birds in thick cover, I'm interested on how well the system detects the subject in those situations but overall I'm really impressed with the performance of this new version of firmware when compared to the previous versions.
rjensen11 wrote:
These are great images. Are you saying it missed focus on them? Is it focusing on the bushes?
No, the images above are taken with pre-capture which seems to work much the same as before - which is to say quite well with the focus staying on the subject.
I couldn't say it is any better than FW3.0, which it might be, because FW3.0 also seemed to work fine for me in similar scenarios.
I didn't see any improvement when trying to focus on a bird obscured by some branches - a different scenario - where I still needed to use Spot:XS to get the focus on the subject behind the branches.
My time with 4.0 is still pretty limited due to weather. But I will agree with Duncan that I didn't see much, if any, improvement in detecting a small perched bird in a cluttered environment. Still had to use a S or XS Flex spot to "show" the camera where the bird is. They have not made any Canon level improvements to this part of the AF. Canon is still well ahead here.
I did notice an increase in properly focused shots during a pre-capture burst of very small Chestnut-backed chickadees launching towards me. I've always been able to get a few sharp ones in each burst but with FW 4.0 I found I was getting a much longer string of shots that nailed the bird correctly. This was against some nasty, messy background so I was impressed. I think if I test against cleaner backgrounds like in Duncan's latest series it will be more on par with the previous FW as that did really well already with cleaner backgrounds.
My chickadee testing was 300GM/2xTC so that made it more impressive as that combo does slow AF compared to the 1.4 or bare lens.
Photographed my first event since upgrading to the new firmware. I didn't see a noticeable improvement and in some ways it was worse. I didn't see any noticeable new ability for the AF to persist on blocked shots. In function, it feels exactly like 3.0.
Mostly using the Sony 50-150, 28-70, and Sigma 135 1.4.
There is a really common tendency for the AF to get sit there and do nothing when first activated. The image is just a totally blurry out of focus image--you hit the af-on button---and it just does nothing---at all. The subject detection is also worse than it was in the a1. When it's working it works better, but there are two major problems I'm noticing. 1) On far away subjects, the camera recognizes the subject and appears to be tracking it, but the actual images recorded to the camera are focused on the background behind the subject. 2) it thinks lots and lots of things are a subject to be tracked that are not. There are really frustratingly frequent false positives. The only real solution to this is to assign a subject tracking off button near the af-on button. Other cameras don't have this problem. I've seen videos claiming that Sony's engineer themselves recommend this solution, so clearly they are aware of this issue. The A1 was definitely worse at detecting subjects early, but it didn't have the false focus confirmation or the subject confusion issues. I also have not found the z8 or z9 to do either of these things.
nhmorgan wrote:
Photographed my first event since upgrading to the new firmware. I didn't see a noticeable improvement and in some ways it was worse. I didn't see any noticeable new ability for the AF to persist on blocked shots. In function, it feels exactly like 3.0.
Mostly using the Sony 50-150, 28-70, and Sigma 135 1.4.
There is a really common tendency for the AF to get sit there and do nothing when first activated. The image is just a totally blurry out of focus image--you hit the af-on button---and it just does nothing---at all. The subject detection is also worse than it was in the a1. When it's working it works better, but there are two major problems I'm noticing. 1) On far away subjects, the camera recognizes the subject and appears to be tracking it, but the actual images recorded to the camera are focused on the background behind the subject. 2) it thinks lots and lots of things are a subject to be tracked that are not. There are really frustratingly frequent false positives. The only real solution to this is to assign a subject tracking off button near the af-on button. Other cameras don't have this problem. I've seen videos claiming that Sony's engineer themselves recommend this solution, so clearly they are aware of this issue. The A1 was definitely worse at detecting subjects early, but it didn't have the false focus confirmation or the subject confusion issues. I also have not found the z8 or z9 to do either of these things. ...Show more →
Completely at odds with all of my experience with two A1II's for the last year. Not sure what's going on here...but something's either wrong with your camera or how you've got it set up/are trying to use it.
I would add that overall the AI AF has been a big improvement in my A1II's over my A1's. Revolutionary? Not quite, but when properly configured, it most definitely is better. The issue is learning how to set up it up for the type of shooting you do. Like all things Sony its incredibly configurable, but also not exactly well-documented, and the default settings are often not close to what you might need depending on the type of shooting you do.
Without knowing more about what you are trying to shoot and how you have all of the AI AF settings configured, it can be difficult to determine why you are having such poor results.
jhapeman wrote:
Completely at odds with all of my experience with two A1II's for the last year. Not sure what's going on here...but something's either wrong with your camera or how you've got it set up/are trying to use it.
I would add that overall the AI AF has been a big improvement in my A1II's over my A1's. Revolutionary? Not quite, but when properly configured, it most definitely is better. The issue is learning how to set up it up for the type of shooting you do. Like all things Sony its incredibly configurable, but also not exactly well-documented, and the default settings are often not close to what you might need depending on the type of shooting you do.
Without knowing more about what you are trying to shoot and how you have all of the AI AF settings configured, it can be difficult to determine why you are having such poor results. ...Show more →
I will try not to be defensive here, but one we shoot very different subjects, sports vs wildlife. I spend quite a bit of time working with every camera I use to try and learn all the nuts and bolts. As a working photographer, I've easily got hundreds of thousands of shots with multiple A1iis. A typical event ranges from 10-20k images before culling. The false positive for subjects is a real issue, not a lack of experience or education one. I like to have a small focus point assigned to the AEL button, but there are many occasions where I cannot get it to do that spot focus because a giant green subject detection box shows up and thinks it sees a human-like subject in a completely random shape. There are possible solutions because of the flexibility of assigning buttons on the camera, but those solutions all create new problems. Second, I'm definitely not the only person to point of the paralysis that these cameras can get when starting from a very out of focus position. When switching between the a1ii and other camera systems I also notice that, when using subject detection, there is clearly more of a delay when initiating tracking and the cameras actual response. It's not a dealbreaker, but the pressing of the button and the reaction of the camera definitely has a slight lag compared to other systems. I assume this is a computational processing delay. Overall, I like my a1ii and keep using them, but there is room for improvement here.
@nhmorgan I think you have a defective device. Honestly, try having it checked or reviewing the autofocus settings. It's impossible that it wouldn't be better with 4.0. I've already taken more than 15,000 photos and I use it at night for events and concerts, and the focus is so much more accurate and the subject is much better locked in.
Matck06 wrote:
@nhmorgan@ I think you have a defective device. Honestly, try having it checked or reviewing the autofocus settings. It's impossible that it wouldn't be better with 4.0. I've already taken more than 15,000 photos and I use it at night for events and concerts, and the focus is so much more accurate and the subject is much better locked in.
Accuracy isn't really the issue. It's the subject detection. Same experience on two a1ii cameras. Also, not the only one to notice the paralysis the camera sometimes experiences. Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's user error or defective camera. It's a place where Sony could improve.
nhmorgan wrote:
Accuracy isn't really the issue. It's the subject detection. Same experience on two a1ii cameras. Also, not the only one to notice the paralysis the camera sometimes experiences. Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's user error or defective camera. It's a place where Sony could improve.
I've taken over 150,000 shots with my A1 II since March and I've never had a single crash, regardless of the firmware. The autofocus has always been flawless, but since firmware 4.0 it's really superior. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the detection and accuracy are truly incredible with this new firmware. I even feel like I have a different camera. But yes, I did have some issues with Sony with the first A1, with updates that killed my Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and the autofocus, which fortunately was covered under warranty.
I've had the chance to bring my A1ii to a Taekwondo Tournament this weekend. It usually worked great, but could get confused more easily when combatant were closing in and switching side rapidly. Factor in the referee and close spectators, and focus could shift easily.
Glad to say that the stickiness increased significantly with AF almost patiently waiting when subject gets blocked or obscured. Felt great and more confident.
Matck06 wrote:
I've taken over 150,000 shots with my A1 II since March and I've never had a single crash, regardless of the firmware. The autofocus has always been flawless, but since firmware 4.0 it's really superior. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the detection and accuracy are truly incredible with this new firmware. I even feel like I have a different camera. But yes, I did have some issues with Sony with the first A1, with updates that killed my Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and the autofocus, which fortunately was covered under warranty.
, i haven't updated my a7iv for that reason, im not game to upgrade something thats been 100% for me over the last 3 years.
