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The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...

  
 
panos.v
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p.4 #1 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


I look at the Thai series and I'm thinking this is indeed meaningless street photography. You claim these photos have some immediacy...some intimacy? Yet all I see is fleeting moments on the street, the majority of them taken as if trying to avoid being found out you're taking a photo. There are a couple where the subject engages but they are unremarkable, maybe because most are technically so deficient, maybe something else.

Even on the still scenes, the composition is rushed, not thought through. Lovely shot of the spaghetti cables, I'm sure lots of people from "the west" find them "interesting" when going to Asia. Is it suppoed to be a metaphor of the chaos of Thai streets?

Oh look, a photo of a rag on a wok...that's local life for you, they eat on the streets! But let's get to the wider environment, where we have a peacful end to the manic series of people rushing past: the beach. A crooked photo of a beach with no focal point, nothing interesting, nothing photogenic, maybe a bottle and some tire marks. Let us finish then with a very high contrast photo of a boat. Only it doesn't bring a close, because it has been manipulated to such high contrast, the only thing you notice is the burned highlights of the waves etching themselves to your eyeballs, hurting when looking at it.

Was this meaningless? No. It has certainly evoqued a certain feeling inside me. A feeling of sadness at the waste of film and developer.

Now, I am not pretending to be a better photographer. I do not pretend that I can go out and do better street photography than this, just like I do not pretend I produce photos with "meaning". I don't go lecturing about it either. And before someone says "well you do better if you can", no sorry, I don't have to be able to cook a 3-star Michelin meal to judge if what I am eating is 3-star vs burger-van quality.



Oct 04, 2025 at 09:06 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.4 #2 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Question; can just the act of creating be art and/or meaninful?


Oct 04, 2025 at 09:07 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.4 #3 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


^^ Reading panos.v’s post above, my initial reaction was to remove my texts and images in this thread and replace each of them with an “x” — particularly when I saw that there were some 300 views since he had posted, meaning that a lot of people read his post without any reaction. However, I then re-read the post and found it absurd. I’ll react to just a few points.

First, he seems to think that “immediacy" means “intimacy:” It obviously doesn’t. He wants the photo of the beach to be “photogenic;” he does notice the tire marks, which are extensive and significant because they mark the only access route to a tourist hotel at the end of the beach; he doesn’t like the tilted skew of the beach — but I don’t meed his advice on the framing.

More importantly, he alleges that I took the majority of my photos "as if trying to avoid being found out you're taking a photo.” Absolutely not! Thailand is not a country in which people resent being photographed, like many do in the UK. Many of the pictures were taken on the fly, with the subject and the photographer walking — in none of them did I need, or want, to be surreptitious. I find this poster’s text both ignorant and mean-spirited. Surprising and disappointing, though, that none of the many people who saw his post commented on it. I’ll go ahead and post the final series that I intended to show here.



Oct 04, 2025 at 07:44 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.4 #4 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Here is a color series from Thailand. You can see the whole 36-image series as a full-screen slideshow on flickr by clicking on the arrow icon of the top, right-hand of this page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/malland/albums/72177720329461303/


Edited on Oct 07, 2025 at 03:35 AM · View previous versions



Oct 04, 2025 at 07:57 PM
jeffersoncasey
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p.4 #5 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


I love how comical this shot turned out, young and lively energy (or the opposite - just few youngster having casual conversations 😁 ).




Oct 04, 2025 at 08:02 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.4 #6 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


"If you can smell the street by looking at the photo, it’s a street photograph."-Bruce Gilden

Mitch, I think I told you this before but thought I'd restate it; with a lot of your images it takes me back to the far east. I can almost smell the fish heads and rice and the meat on sticks from the street vendors. I can almost feel the staggering heat and humidity.



Oct 04, 2025 at 09:40 PM
RustyBug
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p.4 #7 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


A small, obscure book ... that I find meaningful (referenced in an earlier post). It smells ... a lot (imo).








Oct 04, 2025 at 10:32 PM
1bwana1
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p.4 #8 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


airfrogusmc wrote:
"If you can smell the street by looking at the photo, it’s a street photograph."-Bruce Gilden

Mitch, I think I told you this before but thought I'd restate it; with a lot of your images it takes me back to the far east. I can almost smell the fish heads and rice and the meat on sticks from the street vendors. I can almost feel the staggering heat and humidity.


I am in agreement here. I have spent a great deal of time in Thailand. Your images do evoke memories of sights, sounds,smells, tastes, and eviornment of the Thai experience for me. Which at times can shocking and offensive, yet also pleasurably stimulating. I thrive in such enviornments.

Don't be discouraged by the lack of response to the Panos v post. I think most of here just don't want to engage in such a negative discussion. It is clear that for whatever reasons your Thai experience and the enjoyment that comes from sharing them didn't resonate with him. That is fine. It says more about him than your photography. That said, I also was not comfortable in his presentation of his reaction. Possibly his reaction and style was to some degree influenced by your deliberately controversial title for this thread. We should endeavour to be generous with our fellow FM members...



Oct 04, 2025 at 11:43 PM
1bwana1
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p.4 #9 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


I think like most things "meaning" must be taken in the context of intended usage. I am a Geologist and although I spend little time actually doing "Geology" as opposed to business these days, my World view is still heavily based on my interests in the subject.

Yesterday, my Wife and I took a little drive to learn one of our new cars that was delivered on Friday here in Italy. We went to visit the amazing and historical Carrara Marble Quarry which is a nice 1 hour 45 minute drive through beautiful mountains to the coast. I took this boring landscape style image of the quarry. I think most would just pass this image quickly as not very meaningful. However, this one image shows the Geology of the deposit, the significance of it's unique location, it's history including the area where Michelangelo's David statue came from, complete quarrying process, the four different types of marble, the various form factors being quarried here, the tools used, and the complete mining and transportation procedures.

This one photograph could be used as the basis of a very complete lecture on this amazing place. So, yes it has meaning as a stand alone documentary photograph. Of course in actual usage it would be accompanied by detail shots I made to provide more interest to any article or lecture based on it. Much as the true impact of Mitches images sets is much greater when viewed as a set. The meaningfulness of each image is greatly enhanced by the body of work as a whole.







Oct 05, 2025 at 01:22 AM
panos.v
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p.4 #10 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Mitch Alland wrote:
^^ Reading panos.v’s post above, my initial reaction was to remove my texts and images in this thread and replace each of them with an “x” — particularly when I saw that there were some 300 views since he had posted, meaning that a lot of people read his post without any reaction. However, I then re-read the post and found it absurd. I’ll react to just a few points.

First, he seems to think that “immediacy" means “intimacy:” It obviously doesn’t. He wants the photo of the beach to be “photogenic;” he does notice the tire marks, which
...Show more

The fact that I do not like them does not mean that someone else will not. By no means, I never intended to discourage anyone from posting photos. What this discussion though is proving is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and trying to make some ivory tower argument about meaning vs meaningless photography etc is pointless. Meaning, just like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

You do not need my advice on framing indeed. You frame it how you like it and that's how it should be. Here's the interesting bit, though. You say the tire marks are because there's some tourist hotel at the end of the beach. That places some context to the photo. I still cannot see the hotel given the high contrast/framing (or maybe it is not even visible?) but that changes what people make of it. I'll take this one step furthere here (and maybe I am wrong): some photos are evocative on their own. Others need context. One doesn't make the other invalid or wrong. Maybe this series needs some context to help the viewer understand what they are looking at, given that the stylistic choices (of exposure, framing, contrast, camera shake, black and white, etc) sometimes obscure the scene.

PS And just for the other commens that I put some negative twist or whatever. Yes, I did. On purpose. Why? Because the presmise of this thread is that somehow there is meaningless vs meaningful photography and that somehow there is a gold standard. Is that not a negative vibe in itself? And somehow that gold standard is displayed by the photos posted here. I do not really find them that interesting vs the vast collection of similar photos by many other people (and I'm guitly of having a lot of those from various parts of the world). Anyways...moving on.



Oct 05, 2025 at 06:01 AM
 


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chiron
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p.4 #11 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


panos.v wrote:
I look at the Thai series and I'm thinking this is indeed meaningless street photography. You claim these photos have some immediacy...some intimacy? Yet all I see is fleeting moments on the street, the majority of them taken as if trying to avoid being found out you're taking a photo. There are a couple where the subject engages but they are unremarkable, maybe because most are technically so deficient, maybe something else.

Even on the still scenes, the composition is rushed, not thought through. Lovely shot of the spaghetti cables, I'm sure lots of people from "the west" find them "interesting"
...Show more

Obnoxious post, offensively written. I can't recall another thread with such a virulent attack on someone else's work. It demeans the forum. And in this case, I think the work is very fine.



Oct 05, 2025 at 06:33 AM
chez
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p.4 #12 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


chiron wrote:
Obnoxious post, offensively written. I can't recall another thread with such a virulent attack on someone else's work. It demeans the forum. And in this case, I think the work is very fine.


I’d rather someone speak their mind than sugar coat their posts. I don’t feel panos.v was rude or offensive, but truthful of how he felt about the images. Since this thread is all about meaningful versus meaningless images, speaking one’s feelings without being rude is the best way to get a better overall understanding of people’s varying opinions on the subject.

I remember the first time I had a portfolio reviewed…it was ripped apart. It would have done me no good with a wishy washy review.



Oct 05, 2025 at 07:58 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.4 #13 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


panos.v wrote:
...What this discussion though is proving is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and trying to make some ivory tower argument about meaning vs meaningless photography etc is pointless. Meaning, just like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
...the premise of this thread is that somehow there is meaningless vs meaningful photography and that somehow there is a gold standard. Is that not a negative vibe in itself? And somehow that gold standard is displayed by the photos posted here...


Now you're being disingenuous again. In p.3 #13 you wrote: "Meaningful" is something very subjective to the person seeing the photo. As such, for the photographer making the photo, all they are doing is getting something meaningful to them and hoping enough will find meaning in it. — (though the underlined portion shows how you manage to put a negative spin on this as well).

As for the "gold standard" you posit, more disingenuousness as I never wrote, or even implied, that. In fact, I wrote the opposite. I quoted what E.H. Gombrich wrote in the introduction to his Story of Art: , "There really is no such thing as Art. There are only artists." I wrote that this places the artist, with his or her individual intentions and skills, as the central focus of artistic creation. I think the same thing goes for meaning (and meaninglessness) in photography. That is say, the important thing is the meaning and intent of the photographer. Then, that which is "curated" becomes a part of the art world.


panos.v wrote:
...You say the tire marks are because there's some tourist hotel at the end of the beach. That places some context to the photo. I still cannot see the hotel given the high contrast/framing (or maybe it is not even visible?) but that changes what people make of it. I'll take this one step furthere here (and maybe I am wrong): some photos are evocative on their own. Others need context. One doesn't make the other invalid or wrong. Maybe this series needs some context to help the viewer understand what they are looking at, given that the stylistic choices
...Show more

At the time the I took the photo, the hotel was not visible from the beach unless one went just in front of it (where the bay bends to the left in the picture); but, then, the tire tracks would not be visible because the sea was at high tide and you'd be standing in water up to your ankles In any case, the series has the following sequence the "BUY, SELL, RENT PROPERTY photo" (encouraging development), the "electric wires" photo (the result of development) and, then, the "beach with time tracks photo", which can be sufficiently understood without having to write, "look at the tire tracks." But certainly not by people who want to make obnoxious statements.



Hua Hin



Chiang Mai



Sam Roi Yod

Edited on Oct 05, 2025 at 08:12 AM · View previous versions



Oct 05, 2025 at 08:05 AM
panos.v
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p.4 #14 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Ok well here's the thing. I never called anyone any names. I just offered my opinion. But you're happy to call me obnoxious, disingenuous, ignorant and whatever else. You have a good day now. Bye.


Oct 05, 2025 at 08:11 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.4 #15 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


chez wrote:
...I’d rather someone speak their mind than sugar coat their posts. I don’t feel panos.v was rude or offensive, but truthful of how he felt about the image...


Someone being disingenuous hardly qualifies for telling the truth. Please read my post just below yours.

Edited on Oct 05, 2025 at 08:28 AM · View previous versions



Oct 05, 2025 at 08:15 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.4 #16 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


panos.v wrote:
Ok well here's the thing. I never called anyone any names. I just offered my opinion. But you're happy to call me obnoxious, disingenuous, ignorant and whatever else...


I never called you ignorant.




Oct 05, 2025 at 08:20 AM
KLaban
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p.4 #17 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


I'm grateful there's no 'Dislike' option here. Frankly I'll take my old Ma's advice, "if you can't say anything nice then best to say nuttin' at all.



Oct 05, 2025 at 08:21 AM
chez
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p.4 #18 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


KLaban wrote:
I'm grateful there's no 'Dislike' option here. Frankly I'll take my old Ma's advice, "if you can't say anything nice then best to say nuttin' at all.


Do we as a group learn, get better, if all we always hear is praise?



Oct 05, 2025 at 08:24 AM
chez
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p.4 #19 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Mitch Alland wrote:
Someone being disingenuous hardly qualifies for telling the truth. Please read my post just above yours.


I guess I saw it differently than you. I just saw panos.v tell us that he didn’t see this meaningful photography in the images posted. Others said they can smell the street while looking at your images. Both posts are fine by me.



Oct 05, 2025 at 08:29 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.4 #20 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


chez wrote:
Do we as a group learn, get better, if all we always hear is praise?


No, but there are ways of writing critiques without being either offensive or disingenuous.



Oct 05, 2025 at 08:30 AM
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