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The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...

  
 
1bwana1
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p.2 #1 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


brick33308 wrote:
I find the premise of this thread elitist and off putting, the idea that there is an objective/definitive standard that defines what is and isn't meaningful. Seems to me that meaningful is in the eye of the photographer even if others don't see what was meaningful to the photographer who took the picture.

I post frequently in the FM Leica images and Film Is Not Dead threads (as well certain gear specific threads) where I'm happy to receive likes and sometimes comments on my images, but won't post images in this thread because its premise leaves a bad taste in my
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I guess one could choose to look at this topic as elitist. But for me it is valid that we each examine our own point of view in our photography and do our best to understand what is driving us in this endeavor. If this discussion helps me do that then for me, this is useful. I choose to look at it as an exercise in self examination. It is not about being judged or judging others. I learn from viewing others work and reading how they see their own work even if I sometimes cannot see their connections even with explanation. I am not seeing much judgment in this thread, more sharing of personal points of view. We should be charitable when we are not as eloquent as we could be in this endeavor of sharing.

In your case Brick33308 I often have a personal connection to your images because I was born in Key West and enjoy see the culture there and how it has evolved. I would very much enjoy your participation in this thread.



Sep 30, 2025 at 01:06 PM
brick33308
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p.2 #2 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Mitch Alland wrote:
Strange to me that you say this thread is elitist and off-putting because of the idea that there is an objective/definitive standard that defines what is and isn't meaningful — considering that (in p.1 #12) I wrote the opposite, which I'd better repeat in full: In the introduction to his Story of Art, E.H. Gombrich famously writes, "There really is no such thing as Art. There are only artists." This places the artist, with his or her individual intentions and skills, as the central focus of artistic creation. I think the same thing goes for meaning (and meaninglessness) in

Perhaps it's worthwhile to quote a longer passage from Gombrich's book that I happened to find on my computer: There really is no such thing as Art. There are only artists. Once these were men who took coloured earth and roughed out the forms of a bison on the wall of a cave; today some buy their paints, and design posters for hoardings; they did and do many other things. There is no harm in calling all these activities art as long as we keep in mind that such a word may mean very different things in different times and places, and as long as we realize that Art with a capital A has no existence. For Art with a capital A has come to be something of a bogey and a fetish. You may crush an artist by telling him that what he has just done may be quite good in its own way, only it is not 'Art'. And you may confound anyone enjoying a picture by declaring that what he liked in it was not the Art but something different.

Actually I do not think that there are any wrong reasons for liking a statue or a picture. Someone may like a landscape painting because it reminds him of home, or a portrait because it reminds him of a friend. There is nothing wrong with that. All of us, when we see a painting, are bound to be reminded of a hundred-and-one things which influence our likes and dislikes. As long as these memories help us to enjoy what we see, we need not worry. It is only when some irrelevant memory makes us prejudiced, when we instinctively turn away from a magnificent picture of an alpine scene because we dislike climbing, that we should search our mind for the reason for the aversion which spoils a pleasure we mighta work of otherwise have had. There are wrong reasons for disliking a work of art.

...What these recent developments have brought home to us again is that there are tides of taste in art no less than there are tides of fashion in clothing or decoration. It is undeniable that many of the old masters whom we admire and indeed many styles of the past failed to be appreciated by very sensitive and knowledgeable critics of former generations. This is certainly true. No critic and no historian can be entirely unbiased, but think it is wrong to draw the conclusion that artistic values are altogether relative. Granted that we rarely stop to look for the objective merits of works or styles that have failed immediately to appeal to us, this does not prove that our appreciations are entirely subjective. I still remain convinced that we can recognize mastery in art, and this recognition has little to do with our personal likes and dislikes. One reader of this book may like Raphael and dislike Rubens or the other way round, but the book would have failed in its purpose if its readers did not also recognize that both of them were towering masters.


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I'll not debate you on this and simply say I don't agree with the above or what seems to be the point of this post. If people choose to post in this thread, perhaps attempting to prove that their photos are the opposite of "meaningless street photography", more power to them, but I won't be one of them.


Sep 30, 2025 at 02:32 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #3 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


petersm59 wrote:
Purpose and intention are everything.


Indeed.

For some ... the purpose is to produce works that say "Look at me. Look what I did. I'm a photographer, that did this thing that others didn't do. I'm amazing. I'm wonderful."

For others ... it's more of a DeCarava thing, wrt to what the image does to / for the viewer (viewer dependent).

Here's a few (plenty of others in this work) that are both advocating for the sport, but also documenting the moment for the families. Nothing in these that will ever bring me critical acclaim, but that's neither the purpose, nor intent. The meaningfulness resides in what it means to others to capture something they didn't have the wherewithal to do.

MOMA / Magnum / etc. aren't going to be calling me, anytime soon for this body of work. Yet, it is a body of work that some folks find very meaningful. Others will go, "Big wup ... snaps of kids trying to hit a ball."

So, yup ... purpose / intent meets at the intersection of subjectivity (of the audience) to describe meaningfulness. If it's meaningful to the family, that may not be the same kind of meaningfulness as if the photographic world is assessing the merits of producing bodies of work, projects, exhibits, books, etc.
















Edited on Sep 30, 2025 at 09:29 PM · View previous versions



Sep 30, 2025 at 06:04 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #4 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


This one popped up on my YT list, and it seems appropriate to post it here. It helps explain why people photography is problematic in the West (to put it mildly). It's why so few street images are taken at close range. I disagree with much of this character's take, but it's not what I do.
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Sep 30, 2025 at 06:13 PM
1bwana1
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p.2 #5 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...




brick33308 wrote:
I'll not debate you on this and simply say I don't agree with the above or what seems to be the point of this post. If people choose to post in this thread, perhaps attempting to prove that their photos are the opposite of "meaningless street photography", more power to them, but I won't be one of them.


I honestly don't think that people are posting in this thread to prove anything. But yes, it is good to disagree. That is a valid purpose of discussion




Sep 30, 2025 at 06:24 PM
RustyRus
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p.2 #6 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Meaningful Street Photography is simple for me-

Tell the story in my eyes where I or us have been as a family. I am not a huge fan of random photos of people unless it brings me back to a moment-

Here is a few I enjoy from a night in NYC before I ran the NYC marathon last year-

Meaningful? Beyond words

I remember each step as I took these- So do my family-






  LEICA M11 Monochrom    Summicron-M 1:2/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/8.0    1/125s    12500 ISO    0.0 EV  






  LEICA M11 Monochrom    Summicron-M 1:2/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/9.5    1/750s    8000 ISO    0.0 EV  






  LEICA M11 Monochrom    Summicron-M 1:2/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/8.0    1/320s    8000 ISO    0.0 EV  






  LEICA M11 Monochrom    Summicron-M 1:2/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/8.0    1/250s    40000 ISO    0.0 EV  






  LEICA M11 Monochrom    Summicron-M 1:2/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/9.5    1/320s    1250 ISO    0.0 EV  






  LEICA M11 Monochrom    Summicron-M 1:2/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/2.8    1/320s    320 ISO    0.0 EV  






  LEICA M11 Monochrom    Summicron-M 1:2/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/6.8    1/320s    8000 ISO    0.0 EV  






  LEICA M11 Monochrom    Summicron-M 1:2/28 ASPH. lens    28mm    f/8.0    1/320s    20000 ISO    0.0 EV  




Sep 30, 2025 at 09:47 PM
jeffersoncasey
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p.2 #7 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


I only take shallow story images 😂 few from my recent trip, nothing deep...

Run!


Bill shock


I wonder what they're discussing...


And another from previous trip earlier this year
"You had enough food, gimme that"



Oct 01, 2025 at 06:05 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #8 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


One thing that rarely gets dicussed and I feel is extremely important is finding ones own to reference Raalph Gibson "visual signature" or style. How does a photographer take all their influences and somehow turn all of that into something that's theirs? Any thoughts on this?


Oct 01, 2025 at 09:27 AM
catacore
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p.2 #9 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


airfrogusmc wrote:
One thing that rarely gets dicussed and I feel is extremely important is finding ones own to reference Raalph Gibson "visual signature" or style. How does a photographer take all their influences and somehow turn all of that into something that's theirs? Any thoughts on this?


One needs to have a "point of departure"



Oct 01, 2025 at 09:47 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #10 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


IIRC he (Ralph Gibson) did talk about when working on a project and you have a strong image that doesn't fit for whatever reason that might be the starting point for another project or a "point of departure".


Oct 01, 2025 at 10:16 AM
 


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hkrazerx
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p.2 #11 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Pictures of your kids might be meaningful for you but probably not to 99.9% of viewers. Do not invite me over for a slide show of your trip to Epcot. God no. Seriously, if it was meaningful to you then post it. I wish people would be honest and say someone’s photo sucked as if discussing gear. I knew a published pro photographer and he was honest enough to tell me my composition wasn’t focused (figuratively) and I appreciated that. How else was I going to improve?


Oct 01, 2025 at 11:02 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.2 #12 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


airfrogusmc wrote:
One thing that rarely gets dicussed and I feel is extremely important is finding ones own to reference Ralph Gibson "visual signature" or style. How does a photographer take all their influences and somehow turn all of that into something that's theirs? Any thoughts on this?


Allen - As I recall, somewhere, Gibson wrote an admonition not to follow or imitate anyone. Easier said than done, and almost impossible for anyone just starting out. Perhaps what he meant was that, once you've tried shooting in some other people's style you, need to engage in what interests you and do that. For example for some one that has been influenced by, say, Robert Frank, Ralph Gibson and Daido Moriyama may find that he or she now uses elements of Frank's lack of visual precision, Gibson's reductionism and Moriyama immediacy — and that these elements become integrated in the new work. In this respect, I have the feeling that such elements become integrated unconsciously in what one does, especially if one shoots "in the moment" — shall we say the "Zen moment"? That is what I feel. Does that may sense to you?



Oct 01, 2025 at 12:09 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #13 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Yes he said we need to have influences but we need to somehow make it our own. I think looking for and then finding things in our work that seem to always be present. The way we naturally see, the way we compose, the way we process and print can all become part of a visual signature. Here are some words by Weston:
"..... so called “composition” becomes a personal thing, to be developed along with technique, as a personal way of seeing."-Edward Weston

Edited on Oct 01, 2025 at 02:41 PM · View previous versions



Oct 01, 2025 at 01:40 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.2 #14 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


petersm59 wrote:
Indeed, meaning is totally subjective. And perhaps the word meaning is too loose to define. I really think what we are trying to define is whether or not either the photographer has any emotional connection to what they are doing, and are they able to convey that to the viewer...And frankly, this is one of the most interesting threads I've seen here. Talking about something difficult, something deeper than just making a pretty picture is almost nonexistent on any forum.

All we have to share is our point of view, and as is always the case, some people have more to
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Thanks for this eloquent post. Had a look at your website: it blows me away! Your engagement with the subjects is clear: I would say, intense. I'll be going back to your site. Wonderful work! I hope others will look at it as well: https://www.mikepeters-photography.com/Personal-Projects



Edited on Oct 01, 2025 at 02:52 PM · View previous versions



Oct 01, 2025 at 02:16 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #15 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Mitch Alland wrote:
Thanks for this eloquent post. Had a look at your website: it blows me away! Your engagement with the subjects is ad clear: I would say, intense. I'll be going back to your site. Wonderful work! I hope others will look at it as well: https://www.mikepeters-photography.com/Personal-Projects



Agree!!!!



Oct 01, 2025 at 02:40 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.2 #16 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


As I've been wanting to post a series in color, here is a 14-mage series on Paris. You can also see as a full-screen slideshow on flicker by clicking on the arrow icon of the top, right-hand of this page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/malland/albums/72177720328995738

Edited on Oct 07, 2025 at 03:32 AM · View previous versions



Oct 01, 2025 at 07:59 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #17 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


"First we learn to emulate ... then, we learn to create."



WRT to Gibson, I think his point about what we observe of others / influence > > > en route to becoming our own person is paraphrased in the expression above.

While I can't speak for others ... but, it wasn't until I really abandoned efforts to emulate others, that I began to create of my own accord ... good, bad or indifferent.

As time goes on through history, I do think it is harder / harder to be so unique that your own style is heralded as renowned by others. But, I also think that makes it more challenging to "disregard" the influences from others.

Imo, the antidote to that goes back to intent / purpose. When you know your intent / purpose ... it is your driver, moreover than a compulsion to emulate others. If it happens to be that your work is similar to someone else's ... so be it. But, that's not the same as emulation, if you were driven to produce it by your own internal drive.



Oct 01, 2025 at 08:26 PM
Malabito
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p.2 #18 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


There is no universal meaningful street photography. If you believe it is important in some grand sense, or that you are documenting life for posterity, you are missing the point and only lying to yourself.

You are not a journalist nor a war photographer as many think when shooting street.

Street photography should only be meaningful to who is taking the picts.

Thats whats so great about it. You don't need to be a master, you just need to have fun and enjoy the process.




Oct 02, 2025 at 10:41 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.2 #19 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


^ Never heard of any street photographers who thought they were something like war photographers or journalists. That wouldn't make any sense. Nor has anyone like Robert Frank, HCB, Robert Klein or Daido Moriyama, etc. thought of themselves in that way. Also, as stated earlier in the thread and, as evident from the original post, I never intended that the discussion should be limited to street photography.


Oct 02, 2025 at 11:28 AM
Malabito
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p.2 #20 · The opposite of "meaningless street photography"...


Mitch Alland wrote:
^ Never heard of any street photographers who thought they were something like war photographers or journalists. That wouldn't make any sense. Nor has anyone like Robert Frank, HCB, Robert Klein or Daido Moriyama, etc. thought of themselves in that way. Also, as stated earlier in the thread and, as evident from the original post, I never intended that the discussion should be limited to street photography.


Facebook groups are full of them. They think they are creating masterpeices, or documenting homeless which will save them from the streets. I am not saying you said that Its just my pov about street photography and about many who think k they are masters in street.




Oct 02, 2025 at 11:38 AM
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