p.1 #1 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
Given that raw contains all information, I would think that there is no difference, so the difference must have to do with how editing software initially decodes the raw file. I’m guessing that Phocus 2 and LR make initial raw/hdr curves to depict more shadow and highlight detail.
Also, as noted below, you can now keep Phocus 2 files as 3FR vs converting to FFF. Is there an advantage to keeping files as 3FR vs the smaller FFF raw files?
It appears that you no longer are required to use Phocus Mobile for HNNR.
I will also include Hasselblad’s description of the changes found in the latest Phocus 2 for Mac:
New Features in Phocus Desktop 2 for Mac Version 4
Enhanced Image Processing
Hasselblad Natural Noise Reduction (HNNR): This AI-powered feature effectively reduces noise in RAW images, improving overall image quality.
HDR Support: Full HDR capabilities for X2D II 100C captures, including automatic shadow and highlight enhancements.
Direct Editing of 3FR Files: Users can now edit 3FR files without needing to convert them to FFF format.
User Interface Improvements
Clean Workflow: The graphical user interface has been redesigned for easier navigation, allowing users to focus on their editing tasks.
New Editing Tools: Additional tools for finer control over the editing process, ensuring high-quality output.
Performance Enhancements
Faster Import and Workflow: Improved import tools and workflow enhancements for smoother operation, especially with high-resolution files.
Keystone Perspective Correction: A new tool for high-quality perspective corrections, useful for flat artwork.
Additional Features
Film Grain Tool: Users can add flexible film grain simulations to their images, with adjustable parameters.
Adaptive Chromatic Aberration Correction: This feature corrects lens chromatic aberration based on image analysis, enhancing image quality.
These updates aim to provide a more efficient and powerful editing experience for Hasselblad users.
p.1 #2 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
I did some controlled testing, and this is my insight.
Raw data shot in HDR mode is practically identical to raw data shot in standard mode, provided the same exposure is used.
HDR mode uses special smart metering, which can compute a different exposure (shutter speed) than when metering in standard mode. HDR mode is not possible in M-mode and requires generating a JPEG/HEIC in parallel to the raw file.
A raw shot in HDR mode is expected to be edited in HDR mode (automatically in Phocus), so the camera sometimes changes the BaselineExposure tag from -0.25 to +1, as the raw image in HDR mode looks better when brightness is increased in post-processing.
The clippings and histograms differ in HDR mode compared to standard mode.
p.1 #3 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
SrMi wrote:
I did some controlled testing, and this is my insight.
Raw data shot in HDR mode is practically identical to raw data shot in standard mode, provided the same exposure is used.
HDR mode uses special smart metering, which can compute a different exposure (shutter speed) than when metering in standard mode. HDR mode is not possible in M-mode and requires generating a JPEG/HEIC in parallel to the raw file.
A raw shot in HDR mode is expected to be edited in HDR mode (automatically in Phocus), so the camera sometimes changes the BaselineExposure tag from -0.25 to +1, as the raw image in HDR mode looks better when brightness is increased in post-processing.
The clippings and histograms differ in HDR mode compared to standard mode....Show more →
A very good explanation..thanks
Just to make sure that I understood.
HDR/Raw mode will also generate a JPEG/HEIC
Like Raw + HD/HEIC you can’t use M-Mode and auto-ISO
I’m guessing since a smart metering mode is used, this should eliminate the need for exposure compensation to protect the highlights…and excuses the camera’s lack of highlight exposure mode.
p.1 #4 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
bwcolor wrote:
A very good explanation..thanks
Just to make sure that I understood.
HDR/Raw mode will also generate a JPEG/HEIC
Like Raw + HD/HEIC you can’t use M-Mode and auto-ISO
I’m guessing since a smart metering mode is used, this should eliminate the need for exposure compensation to protect the highlights…and excuses the camera’s lack of highlight exposure mode.
You cannot enable HDR if you have not selected JPEG/HEIC as output (with or without raw).
HDR is disabled if you switch to M-mode.
I am still learning about smart metering mode.
p.1 #5 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
Since I don’t want to capture lossy files alongside RAW, I guess I won’t be using the new HDR pipeline. Such a strange decision to require the sidecar files to enable HDR.
p.1 #6 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
SrMi wrote:
I did some controlled testing, and this is my insight.
Raw data shot in HDR mode is practically identical to raw data shot in standard mode, provided the same exposure is used.
HDR mode uses special smart metering, which can compute a different exposure (shutter speed) than when metering in standard mode. HDR mode is not possible in M-mode and requires generating a JPEG/HEIC in parallel to the raw file.
A raw shot in HDR mode is expected to be edited in HDR mode (automatically in Phocus), so the camera sometimes changes the BaselineExposure tag from -0.25 to +1, as the raw image in HDR mode looks better when brightness is increased in post-processing.
The clippings and histograms differ in HDR mode compared to standard mode....Show more →
Thanks for this. Switching between HDR and non-HDR mode for the same scene, what type of metering differences are you seeing in terms of EVs (stops)?
p.1 #7 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
snapsy wrote:
Thanks for this. Switching between HDR and non-HDR mode for the same scene, what type of metering differences are you seeing in terms of EVs (stops)?
It depends on the scene. It can be between 0 and 2 stops, with HDR mode having a larger exposure.
p.1 #8 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
sidaths wrote:
Since I don’t want to capture lossy files alongside RAW, I guess I won’t be using the new HDR pipeline. Such a strange decision to require the sidecar files to enable HDR.
The camera would not be able to display the raw image in HDR mode on the LCD if an HDR file were not available. Note that raw contains data that is not modified by HDR mode.
p.1 #11 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
I think HDR raw just means automatically always exposure to right but with correct image preview (turn down exposure for image review)? (I feel most likely this is the case) If this is true. I think this is a nice feature that during landscape, you don't do the "correct" exposure for the scene but maximize the dynamic range for post processing.
A high DR scene test would tell if it is true. for example, if it is low DR scene, camera with HDR raw will over exposure. For high DR scene, camera with HDR raw will under exposure.
It is almost like high light weighted meter many manufacture have right now. I guess the difference is Device will tag the exposure to show image correctly, this is the main difference.
Though, this isn't really a true "HDR raw". A seudo HDR raw would be like Panasonic S1Rx or Leica SL2 high resolution mode which really capture additional stop of dynamic range than a native sensor can do.
p.1 #12 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
zhangyue wrote:
I think HDR raw just means automatically always exposure to right but with correct image preview (turn down exposure for image review)? (I feel most likely this is the case) If this is true. I think this is a nice feature that during landscape, you don't do the "correct" exposure for the scene but maximize the dynamic range for post processing.
A high DR scene test would tell if it is true. for example, if it is low DR scene, camera with HDR raw will over exposure. For high DR scene, camera with HDR raw will under exposure.
It is almost like high light weighted meter many manufacture have right now. I guess the difference is Device will tag the exposure to show image correctly, this is the main difference.
Though, this isn't really a true "HDR raw". A seudo HDR raw would be like Panasonic S1Rx or Leica SL2 high resolution mode which really capture additional stop of dynamic range than a native sensor can do. ...Show more →
Agreed but DPR's initial review claimed that the exposure was "the same" for the HDR files, which didn't make much sense to me:
"The system appears to be utilizing the highlight data that's usually clipped in the JPEG output, rather than reducing exposure to capture any additional highlight information."
p.1 #13 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
snapsy wrote:
Agreed but DPR's initial review claimed that the exposure was "the same" for the HDR files, which didn't make much sense to me:
"The system appears to be utilizing the highlight data that's usually clipped in the JPEG output, rather than reducing exposure to capture any additional highlight information."
Unless, HDR RAW didn't even change the exposure technic. Then it is merely a tag system can take advantage of whole Hasselblad process flow to view image at high bit depth with correct tone mapping? This makes less sense and contradict with SrMi's report above.
p.1 #14 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
When I manually edited some older Hasselblad RAW files as HDR in phocus 4.0, it looked best to increase exposure by about a stop or so and then decrease brightness (= mostly midtones and shadows) a bit. My guess is the X2Dii does something similar when set to HDR, to make use of the additional highlight headroom.
And maybe to clarify: the raw files themselves don’t have more dynamic range as they normally do, it’s all about the output format. You get up to 4 stops of additional highlight information, so approx 12 stops overall vs 8 stops in a normal jpg.
p.1 #15 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
SrMi wrote:
I am still investigating.
Thanks, forgot to ask - by "larger exposure", do you mean HDR metered at a faster or slower shutter speed? I assume you meant slower but just checking to make sure.
p.1 #16 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
snapsy wrote:
Thanks, forgot to ask - by "larger exposure", do you mean HDR metered at a faster or slower shutter speed? I assume you meant slower but just checking to make sure.
Yes, slower shutter speed in A mode and fixed ISO.
p.1 #17 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
SrMi wrote:
The camera would not be able to display the raw image in HDR mode on the LCD if an HDR file were not available. Note that raw contains data that is not modified by HDR mode.
This doesn't make sense. All the data that results in the creation of the JPEG/HEIC is present in the 3FR file. All it would need to do is render it in HDR just like it does when it creates the JPEG/HEIC at the point of capture. I just verified this hypothesis by shooting in HDR, deleting the HEIC when connected to the computer and then previewing the image again -- it still displays in HDR.
On further testing, it appears that another difference of shooting in HDR mode is that the 'blinkies' that display during playback no longer blink for areas of overexposure at 8-bit. Shooting the same scene with the exact same settings in HDR and non-HDR modes (it takes a bit of fiddling to get this to happen) results in the same image, but on preview there are fewer blinkies on the HDR image. More investigation needs to be done to understand how the exposure changes when shooting HDR...
p.1 #18 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
sidaths wrote:
This doesn't make sense. All the data that results in the creation of the JPEG/HEIC is present in the 3FR file. All it would need to do is render it in HDR just like it does when it creates the JPEG/HEIC at the point of capture. I just verified this hypothesis by shooting in HDR, deleting the HEIC when connected to the computer and then previewing the image again -- it still displays in HDR.
On further testing, it appears that another difference of shooting in HDR mode is that the 'blinkies' that display during playback no longer blink for areas of overexposure at 8-bit. Shooting the same scene with the exact same settings in HDR and non-HDR modes (it takes a bit of fiddling to get this to happen) results in the same image, but on preview there are fewer blinkies on the HDR image. More investigation needs to be done to understand how the exposure changes when shooting HDR......Show more →
Rendering HDR JPEG appears to take a while, with a longer spinning cycle.
I have tried removing the JPEG, and the image is no longer displayed as HDR in the camera.
Shoot a scene where HDR shows a difference from a non-HDR shot. Take two identical shots with HDR and remove the JPEG for one. I clearly see a difference.
p.1 #19 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
I think there might be some confusion about terminology here, which is actually quite confusing. We're all familiar with HDR from photography, i.e. overdone in bad landscapes and real estate photos.
Then there is HDR for TVs and monitors. This essentially just has brighter highlights. Unless I am mistaken, the X2DII is just allowing those bright highlights to register on HDR screens and take advantage of that technology.
Buyer beware, again unless I am mistaken, your HDR Raw photo from an X2DIi will not register that info on any kind of printed surface. Your images will look more dynamic on iPhone screens, iPads, TVs, and some computer monitors, that's it.
Philosophically I think the height of a photographic presentation is still books or prints, though admittedly we mostly do engage with pictures via screens, which are increasingly HDR.
p.1 #20 · X2D ii What is the difference between Raw and HDR Raw?
speedgraphic wrote:
I think there might be some confusion about terminology here, which is actually quite confusing. We're all familiar with HDR from photography, i.e. overdone in bad landscapes and real estate photos.
Then there is HDR for TVs and monitors. This essentially just has brighter highlights. Unless I am mistaken, the X2DII is just allowing those bright highlights to register on HDR screens and take advantage of that technology.
Buyer beware, again unless I am mistaken, your HDR Raw photo from an X2DIi will not register that info on any kind of printed surface. Your images will look more dynamic on iPhone screens, iPads, TVs, and some computer monitors, that's it.
Philosophically I think the height of a photographic presentation is still books or prints, though admittedly we mostly do engage with pictures via screens, which are increasingly HDR....Show more →
Yes it’s for display on HDR media. As someone who shoots for printing it’s not a feature I’ll be using. Honestly it seems to me to be an excellent marketing gimmick and it’s gotten a lot of attention but I doubt many 100MP shooters will be using it a lot in 6 months.
