My C2PA credential started working for all images captured after 1:26 PM today. My guess is that's when Nikon uploaded the camera's certificate.
It's interesting how things have to be for edited images, though. If doing a Lightroom / Photoshop hybrid, you need to open from lightroom, immediately (and for every image) enable credentials for the file, then do your edits, then make sure to export preserving the credentials.
Anything done in a third party plugin (I often use Color Efex, Silver Efex or DxO Film Pack), is recorded as "Unknown Edits or Activity". Also, because Color Efex makes a new layer that is then merged down, it sees this as 'compositing', even though I did not composite anything. It's basically color and contrast edits and a slight vignette. Anyway, that's fine - I'm not a photojournalist. Nice to see that it appends the Adobe credential to the Nikon credential, which can still be seen and clicked on.
This is one of many spotted lanternflies that was on a tree....I killed this one and several others I could reach, but this tree was already fully infested. (They are an invasive species and people are encouraged to kill them if possible).
Jman13 wrote:
The Z9 is on its own update cycle. It got most of these updates well before the other cameras. And then there are a few newer features that were ready for this update cycle but weren’t ready for the last Z9 cycle.
The Z9 has gotten 4 MAJOR firmware updates, bringing huge amounts of new features. It’s not like it’s stuck at V1 and everything newer vastly outperforms it.
Nikon added Bird AF subject detection to the Z9 in October 2023, and the Z6 III just got it despite the camera being released in the summer of 2024. It just is how the firmware development cycles go. ...Show more →
Indeed. And I suspect that Nikon does more testing for the Z9 since they consider it mission critical. They also tend to include new features first which require more testing also.
Considering the legacy of Nikon with firmware updates I find it totally puzzling that some folks seem to doubt whether there will he a firmware 6.0 for the Z9. Of course there will be.
Jman13 wrote:
My C2PA credential started working for all images captured after 1:26 PM today. My guess is that's when Nikon uploaded the camera's certificate.
It's a reasonable guess. I remember when I first set it up this morning the camera seemed to indicate it got the cert immediately and showed the credential icon on the photos right away. But perhaps it's only a placeholder at that point.
I'll be enabling this on a second Z6 III in a few days and this time I'll watch it more carefully for clues on the process. I might also cut off the camera's access to WiFi after the initial activation and then monitor to see what activity there is in relation to when it starts working.
I don't think it has anything to do with when the camera connects - but rather Nikon creates the certificate, puts it on the camera, but then I think it has to register that certificate with the group doing the credentialing. And I think that's what matters. If the shot is taken before the certificate is 'active' it's viewed as not genuine and therefore 'missing'. For instance, as I said, mine seemed to go active at 1:26 PM (well, it was actually 2:26, but I forgot to set my camera's time ahead for daylight savings in the spring). This was about 5 hours after I enabled it through Nikon Imaging Cloud.
However, I was actually out in the field shooting at this time. Was not connected to my phone and nowhere near either of the two Wi-Fi networks registered to the camera. There was no way for my camera to connect to Imaging Cloud at that time. And yet, one minute there are no credentials on the images - and literally partway through the shoot it switches, and all the rest are credentialed.
Jman13 wrote:
I don't think it has anything to do with when the camera connects - but rather Nikon creates the certificate, puts it on the camera, but then I think it has to register that certificate with the group doing the credentialing. And I think that's what matters. If the shot is taken before the certificate is 'active' it's viewed as not genuine and therefore 'missing'. For instance, as I said, mine seemed to go active at 1:26 PM (well, it was actually 2:26, but I forgot to set my camera's time ahead for daylight savings in the spring). This was about 5 hours after I enabled it through Nikon Imaging Cloud.
However, I was actually out in the field shooting at this time. Was not connected to my phone and nowhere near either of the two Wi-Fi networks registered to the camera. There was no way for my camera to connect to Imaging Cloud at that time. And yet, one minute there are no credentials on the images - and literally partway through the shoot it switches, and all the rest are credentialed. ...Show more →
I considered that possibility but dismissed it after I observed that all photos taken during the "non-working" period are missing all of the C2PA metadata, so it's not possible for the evaluation of them not having credentials to be related to whether or not they were taken after the time the online cert was considered active by the authoritative sources since the photos didn't have any of the C2PA metadata to even evaluate.
A whole host of changes and focus shift shooting is still buried 3 clicks deep in a menu. How stupid is that? And how long will Nikon maintain the stupidity? It has been at least 6 years so I am thinking here is no hope for those of us that actually use this function somewhat regularly. If I ever switch to Canon that may be the reason.
GroovyGeek wrote:
A whole host of changes and focus shift shooting is still buried 3 clicks deep in a menu. How stupid is that? And how long will Nikon maintain the stupidity? It has been at least 6 years so I am thinking here is no hope for those of us that actually use this function somewhat regularly. If I ever switch to Canon that may be the reason.
I don't see the problem.
Just put the "focus shift function" in the I-menu and you'll have quick access to it.
Alternatively, if it's really used that often, set it as the first entry in My Menu and then assign a button to My Menu - first entry.
That way, you can access the focus shift menu/settings at the touch of a button.
What else can Nikon do? Use My Menu as the first entry and, for example, assign My Menu to FN2, and you'll have access to the Focus Shift function at the touch of a button.
It wouldn't be any faster with a dedicated button exclusively for Focus Shift,.
"My Menu" assigned to a function key with focus shift as the first entry in "My menu" achieves the same result, instant access to focus shift settings at the touch of a button.
Jman13 wrote:
I don't think it has anything to do with when the camera connects - but rather Nikon creates the certificate, puts it on the camera, but then I think it has to register that certificate with the group doing the credentialing. And I think that's what matters. If the shot is taken before the certificate is 'active' it's viewed as not genuine and therefore 'missing'. For instance, as I said, mine seemed to go active at 1:26 PM (well, it was actually 2:26, but I forgot to set my camera's time ahead for daylight savings in the spring). This was about 5 hours after I enabled it through Nikon Imaging Cloud.
However, I was actually out in the field shooting at this time. Was not connected to my phone and nowhere near either of the two Wi-Fi networks registered to the camera. There was no way for my camera to connect to Imaging Cloud at that time. And yet, one minute there are no credentials on the images - and literally partway through the shoot it switches, and all the rest are credentialed. ...Show more →
I did some experiments this morning on the Z6 III I activated yesterday and think I've solved the mystery.
If I change the date+time on my camera so the date is yesterday and the time is after C2PA was enabled+cert installed but before the time it started working, then the image review on the camera shows the C2PA icon but the file is missing the C2PA metadata (and of course shows no credentials for the online C2PA verifier), matching the behavior we both saw yesterday.
If I do the same thing above, setting the date to yesterday but the time to before the C2PA was enabled+cert installed then I see the same thing - C2PA indication on image review but no C2PA metadata.
If I change the date+time so the date is 2 days earlier (day before the C2PA was enabled+cert installed) then the camera shows an exclamation point in LV for the C2PA icon and shows no C2PA icon on image review for photos taken. The image is missing the C2PA metadata.
Conclusions:
* The C2PA certificate issued likely has both a start date and time.
* If a photo is taken on/after the cert start date but before the cert start time then the camera acts as if C2PA is enabled and working but doesn't actually embed the C2PA metadata. In other words, part of the firmware thinks the C2PA is enabled (LV indicator, image review indicator) but the firmware part that actually generates the image knows C2PA can't be used because the time is before the start time of the cert so it doesn't generate the C2PA metadata.
* If a photo is taken before the cert start date then the camera acts as if C2PA is enabled but not working because it knows the date is before the cert start date, so it shows the C2PA icon but with an exclamation point (LV indicator) and no C2PA icon for image review.
* As to why the cert start time might not be immediate, perhaps a time zone issue in how the cert is being handled. Or perhaps the cert authority just sets the start time to a few hours later to accommodate any presumed propagation delays.
So just some sloppy programming on handling both the date and time of the cert start period.
Surprised they didn't do the shutter closure when shutting off the camera to protect the sensor, it does when you remove the battery, or am I missing it !
How buried in the menu it is continues to be the least bad part of Nikon’s implementation of this. Every other brand does it better.
GroovyGeek wrote:
A whole host of changes and focus shift shooting is still buried 3 clicks deep in a menu. How stupid is that? And how long will Nikon maintain the stupidity? It has been at least 6 years so I am thinking here is no hope for those of us that actually use this function somewhat regularly. If I ever switch to Canon that may be the reason.
Steelhant wrote:
Surprised they didn't do the shutter closure when shutting off the camera to protect the sensor, it does when you remove the battery, or am I missing it !
No Nikon does this, even the Z8 has a dedicated curtain for it, not the shutter.
Steelhant wrote:
Surprised they didn't do the shutter closure when shutting off the camera to protect the sensor, it does when you remove the battery, or am I missing it !
Dust on the sensor is way smaller an issue than a broken shutter. And with the super shallow mirrorless mounts the shutter is a lot more exposed than in DSLRs where the mirror protected it.
Nikon is completely right to not use the very fragile shutter to « protect » the sensor, at least by default.
It makes sense to do this in exceptionally dusty situations but not as a default behavior.
Sony followed the Nikon Z8/Z9 example with the a9III and included a more robust dedicated shield.
Vento wrote:
I don't see the problem.
Just put the "focus shift function" in the I-menu and you'll have quick access to it.
Alternatively, if it's really used that often, set it as the first entry in My Menu and then assign a button to My Menu - first entry.
That way, you can access the focus shift menu/settings at the touch of a button.
What else can Nikon do? Use My Menu as the first entry and, for example, assign My Menu to FN2, and you'll have access to the Focus Shift function at the touch of a button.
It wouldn't be any faster with a dedicated button exclusively for Focus Shift,.
"My Menu" assigned to a function key with focus shift as the first entry in "My menu" achieves the same result, instant access to focus shift settings at the touch of a button....Show more →
I have been doing these things for years and they are not nearly enough. My topical usage is flowers or twigs inches away from the lens, with some large object as the background. Every fraction of an inch in position matters. Clearances are often small so tripod is not an option.
What Nikon forces me to do is
1) recall the top my menu item, which I have assigned to the never used video button. So far so good
2) but now I have to press the OK button to initiate the stack. I can do that either with the pencil head or the middle of the selector button. The pencil head is reasonably close by but unless you press it perfectly you don't trigger ok. And the OK button is too far away so you have to move your hand to press it. Both result in subtle movements and changes in composition.
3) And then Nikon adds insult to injury. The stupid, pointless screen blackout with the "preparing" message. All along you are praying that you have held steady enough not to completely mess up the composition.
4) Last but not least, a meaningful fraction of the time the focus stack will not complete, leaving the camera in a weird state that can only be cleared by turning off the camera.
On the off chance that someone from Nikon is reading let me spell it out for them how it should be.
a) user sets the camera in focus shift mode
b) user presses the shutter release button
c) camera takes a stack with no delay and no screen blackout.
You are welcome, Nikon. Now fix that abomination of an UI you have.
Here is an example of what I am talking about. Each of the flowers is maybe 1/4 inch across. The patch is a few inches across. My camera is an inch off the ground resting on the toe of my boot and maybe two inches away from the closest flower. Tripod is not an option.
I agree. Try another camera system. No idea what their UI will be but maybe you’ll have better luck.
OTOH I think you could also get creative with your “tripod is not an option” declaration - there are tons of super low profile solutions out there. One example:
GroovyGeek wrote:
I have been doing these things for years and they are not nearly enough. My topical usage is flowers or twigs inches away from the lens, with some large object as the background. Every fraction of an inch in position matters. Clearances are often small so tripod is not an option.
What Nikon forces me to do is
1) recall the top my menu item, which I have assigned to the never used video button. So far so good
2) but now I have to press the OK button to initiate the stack. I can do that either with the pencil head or the middle of the selector button. The pencil head is reasonably close by but unless you press it perfectly you don't trigger ok. And the OK button is too far away so you have to move your hand to press it. Both result in subtle movements and changes in composition.
3) And then Nikon adds insult to injury. The stupid, pointless screen blackout with the "preparing" message. All along you are praying that you have held steady enough not to completely mess up the composition.
4) Last but not least, a meaningful fraction of the time the focus stack will not complete, leaving the camera in a weird state that can only be cleared by turning off the camera.
On the off chance that someone from Nikon is reading let me spell it out for them how it should be.
a) user sets the camera in focus shift mode
b) user presses the shutter release button
c) camera takes a stack with no delay and no screen blackout.
You are welcome, Nikon. Now fix that abomination of an UI you have.
Here is an example of what I am talking about. Each of the flowers is maybe 1/4 inch across. The patch is a few inches across. My camera is an inch off the ground resting on the toe of my boot and maybe two inches away from the closest flower. Tripod is not an option.
In essence you have a very corner scenario in that you want to do DoF stacking without the camera being mounted on anything. Very few people do that as I am sure you are aware.
I have 2 of the larger ones, light, sturdy, super compact and enables to get super low (depending on the type of head you mount on top of it) and very close to the subject (depending on the length of your lens). The Delta may be best for your applications.
If not I would agree, move to another brand. Another option would be to contact a Nikon representative and to try to explain your use case and why the current UI generates some friction?
Sorry to say but that is a silly answer, and it is sad that many others are regurgitating the same. Nikon advertises focus shift as the world's best implementation, why should not users expect nikon to have a sensible UI.
Every camera has a shutter button and it is a reasonable expectation to begin your exposure by pressing the shutter button. How would you feel if instead you had to dive into menus to find an option to take picture. Yet this is exactly what nikon is making its users do when they need to take focus shift or time lapse, and then as mentioned before, the screen goes dark. Even if there is a technical reason in other cameras, Z8 has parallel image pipelines, if should be able to show live view regardless of what the camera is doing.
Laslo Varadi wrote:
If Nikon is not doing it for you, get another camera. Use the best tool for the job if it is that important to you.
The "try another camera" responses are silly. I don't have thousands of dollars to burn on a system switch for one feature. Nor should anyone be contemplating a system switch for one feature unless they are making money with the camera and the feature in question is essential to their work. A famous landscape photographer switched from Nikon to Canon for that reason alone. I am not a famous landscape photographer. And yes, Canon's implementation of focus shift wipes the floor with Nikon's and Sony's. Particularly Sony's which soots at a pathetically slow 2-3 fps during focus shift.
I have been with Nikon for over 20 years. From an ergonomic point of view their cameras are, IMO, better than the competition. Their lenses are top notch. The aggravating thing about focus shift is that it is one of the worst implementations of all major vendors, and it is a totally self inflicted wound. There is absolutely no reason for it to be as brain dead as it is.
jlafferty wrote:
I agree. Try another camera system. No idea what their UI will be but maybe you’ll have better luck.
OTOH I think you could also get creative with your “tripod is not an option” declaration - there are tons of super low profile solutions out there. One example:
You can also use a tripod with a center column and hang your camera below the legs:
Good luck finding a better solution.
A full sized tripod is not suitable for this type of shot. Even with legs splayed on the ground the lens sits too high. Some mini tripods work, as long as they are not looked in a few specific leg angles like the RRS one. But tripods are fiddly and those too long to set up in a rapidly exchanging light. The fog and light in the shotnInpsoted lasted at most 2 minutes and I missed the best. If I was fiddling with a tripod I would have likely missed the shot.
