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Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

gdanmitchell
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p.4 #1 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Nielk Mike wrote:
Why, then, am I using the X-Pro so much and with delight? It is a mystery. From a rational point of view, the Sony is the better option in terms of IQ and handling. I don't care about Film Simulations, either. What is it that makes using the X-Pro such a special thing? Is it the less than perfect overall technical performance? Since I am not using the vintage features, is it just the vintage look and feel?

It seems to me that the reason for me is the (relatively) slow process of taking an image. It is not...Show more →

In an attempt to � potentially in vain ��to get this thread out of the dump and back on track, I want to comment on the idea of �slowing down� to make photographs.

I have a few thoughts on that:

1. You can go slow with any camera � you don�t need a camera that makes you slow down. The choice to go slow or fast is entirely yours.

An example: I use the same camera for landscape photography and for photographing birds in flight. The latter necessarily requires me to react and photograph quickly, often working entirely intuitively, with no time to carefully consider technical or other stuff. The former often is a much slower process. I wander around, regarding possible subjects. I consider (sometimes with the help of a framing card) various compositional approaches � left, right, higher, lower, forward, closer, farther back. I might take minutes to work it all out, and if the light is changing I might work one subject of a long time, occasionally an hour or so.

2. A fast camera can operate slowly, but a slow camera cannot operate fast. ;-) I can work at any speed with the fast camera, but some things will be out of range of the slow camera.

3. I don�t think that the XPro is a slow camera. I shot the XPro2 for years, and my main subject was street photography, where things often happen very quickly and I have to react without consciously thinking, relying on gut instinct and intuition.

Camera preferences are strange things. We like to think they are entirely rational. While there is undoubtedly a rational aspect to them in many case, sometimes we are telling ourselves things about the reasons that may not be entirely true. And sometimes we just have prejudices. I don�t mean that in a bad, accusative way � just that we have preferences that may defy logic, based on what we�re comfortable or familiar with.

Over two decades ago I started to shoot Canon digital cameras. I�m a thoughtful person and I�m sure I had my reasons. But when I come right down to it, the biggest factor is that this is the brand that a photographer I knew well used. If that photographer had used Nikon I probably would have ended up there instead. And I�ll bet that my photographs would have been pretty much teh same.

Jul 27, 2025 at 03:13 PM

Jack Flesher
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p.4 #2 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

As regards using different systems. I can (and have) set up virtually every manufacturers contemporary digital cameras in a way I could use them almost seamlessly, EXCEPT Sony. Even here, I need to admit a caveat -- the last digital Sony I owned which was also my first mirrorless cam was the A7R and I pretty quickly gave up on it. The camera did not fit my hands well at all, the buttons were in odd places, and I wasn't impressed with the EVF. I suspect (hope) most of that has changed by now, and I assume I could happily live with one today if I felt the impulse.

The irony in all this is the system I like least right now, is my Fuji XT simply because I have to stand on my head, switch a dial or two and change a menu item or three in order to move between A, M and S modes, when this is trivial to do with any camera with a ASMP dial. I do like the way it looks though, and I like the XT4 files enough I keep it around for those two main reasons.

Why have I settled on Fuji? Personally speaking only, it's because of Fuji X's relatively compact size AND accompanying smaller and lighter lens sizes. Yes, Fuji X is "only an" ASP-c cam, but for my normal uses I frankly don't find I'm giving up much of anything to FF; and/or the few things I know I am sacrificing don't offset the size and convenience factors. And to be clear, all of this is irrespective of costs, even though Fuji is the relative bargain brand compared to most contemporary FF CaNiSo options.

So could I be happy with CaNiSo? Sure, and I was with a heavy investment in Nikon Z bodies and glass a few years ago. But I'm at least as happy and in a few cases happier with Fuji X -- at least for now

Jul 27, 2025 at 04:02 PM

Jack Flesher
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p.4 #3 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Re raw vs JPEG: For sure *some* of my raw files are well within JPEG color and DR constraints after I've finished with the raw. But most of my images get enough post that the adjustments would be problematic at the least, and virtually impossible much of the time if the original were a JPEG instead of a raw.

Re film sims and the fact we're all using them anyway: I have ZERO problem with folks shooting only JPEG Sims, Raw + JPEG with sims, only Raw with a sim enabled, or raw only and applying a sim or style afterwards in post. Are my own final raw conversions essentially nothing more than film sims? I don't believe so, but at the same time I can see where some might argue as such. What it definitely is, is an interpretation of what I envisioned it to be when I clicked the shutter; and therefore it is a simulation of what my mindset and thinking were when I pressed the shutter, and that is by definition my own artistic style in itself being applied, which in turn sort of renders a consistent result that in many ways may "emulate" a dedicated style preset. But it isn't a button or setting in the camera or software, it's a realization of a preview in my mind, and to me they are very different things. YMMV

Re my use of sims: All this said, while I shoot raw only, I do occasionally utilize a sim while shooting. The primary example is when I'm wanting to capture scenes in B&W, I will sometimes dial up my Acros + Y film sim, so what I see in the VF is closer to what I get in the final compared to leaving my finder in color. But admittedly this isn't a hard and fast rule, just something I will sometimes do when the mood strikes me. As for applying sims in post, I regularly do this, but call them styles since that's precisely what they're called in C1, my raw processor of choice. Here I have multiple styles aka "sims" saved: a regular color (which I apply as my default "recipe" on import), a landscape "pop" color, high ISO color, classic chrome film, classic color neg film, a Polaroid SX70-ish color, a basic B&W, people B&W, and finally a couple sepia, selenium and split-tone styles as well. The howeverbiut is, I am not locked into any of them from an artistic POV...

PS: And FWIW, I think the range of posts here related to actual imaging all make for good discussion

Jul 27, 2025 at 04:46 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.4 #4 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Jack Flesher wrote:
The irony in all this is the system I like least right now, is my Fuji XT simply because I have to stand on my head, switch a dial or two and change a menu item or three in order to move between A, M and S modes, when this is trivial to do with any camera with a ASMP dial. I do like the way it looks though, and I like the XT4 files enough I keep it around for those two main reasons.

Jack, changing modes on the XT5 seems pretty easy to me. Trivial even. ;-)

1. If the aperture ring and shutter dials in the �A� (auto) position you are in P (program) mode.

2. you select a shutter speed on the dial you are now in S (shutter priority) mode.

3. If, instead, you select an aperture on the lens you are in A (aperture priority) mode.

. If you select aperture and shutter speed manually (old school!) you are in M (manual) mode.

Basically, if you want something to be automatic, you set that something to �A.� If you want it to be manual you just choose your desired setting. Unless you are moving between A and M modes, it just takes one setting. (A to M and vice versa takes two.)

While it is different than selecting from a PASM menu, it is very direct and quick. You con�t ever actually pick a mode, per se. the mode just follows your selections. (I actually think it is quicker than the PASM setting method. There � like on my Canon camera ��I would select the Av, Tv, P, or M modes and then have to manually also select the aperture and/or shutter speed.

On the XT, to go from manual to Av for example, I just do one step ��pick the aperture. On my Canon I would choose the PASM mode, then use a different dial to select the aperture I want � two steps instead of one.

Maybe a short video will make that clearer?

- - -

when it comes to sims, I probably use them in a similar way to what you do. I always shoot raw � I dont�t think I�ve ever shot a jpg frame on my XT5, and I don�t recall doing so on my XPro2. However, sometimes in post I�ll click the �profiles� button/text in ACR and have a look at what the Fujifilm sims and the Adobe profiles look like. (I find the monochrome profiles to be the most interesting, but that�s just me.)

-

- - -

My own strong preference � and I understand how and why others feel differently ��is to begin with the most neutral possible version of the image with full image data, e.g. the raw file� plus a few starting presets that I use when I begin my post-processing. A digital camera is not a film camera, so I�m uninterested (aside from some very rare cases) in making the images it produces look sort of like they came from film. I want to make the images look the way that I like it, so each one is done manually without presets other than my own.* In most cases, I can do this relatively quickly, though some images will require more fiddling to get them right where I want them.

- - -

One thing that does sometimes annoy me is when the jpg-only shooters say stuff like (to paraphrase) �if you just knew how to expose correctly you would get what you want from the jpg.� I�ll resist the temptation to go into detail about just exaclty what I hint of that notion. Because I might not be polite. ;-)

I�ll just point out to any jpg fans reading this that I�m not saying that you have to shoot raw or that you are a bad person for shooting jpg. That�s entirely your prerogative.

* My personal presets saved for me in ACR are for things like some basic sharpening setting starting point.

Jul 27, 2025 at 06:06 PM

Jack Flesher
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p.4 #5 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Dan, A mode requires the extra step of assigning aperture to the Command wheel, C in the user menu. If I want S priority I have to return to a different menu to assign the front wheel to SS. For M mode with the command wheels, I have to assign the back to SS, and lose EC on the rear dial and use the top dial if I want it. With the ASMP Fujis, I set these prefs once in each respective mode and it�s all changed automatically when I move the ASMP dial. IOW, WAYYY easier.

Jul 27, 2025 at 06:48 PM

SGinNorcal
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p.4 #6 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Jul 27, 2025 at 08:22 PM

SGinNorcal
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p.4 #7 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Back to the Fuji instead of Sony camera discussion, I can't help but relate to audio equipment. Its similar that Sony makes the majority of the digital processing chips found in most CD players. Where they aren't as good is within the analog domain. Its the conversion from bits and bytes to something we can see or hear that matters most, IMO. Its this part of camera software that defines the look, not the sensor, assuming the resolution is up to the job. So if someone prefers Fuji, I would think that preference is driven by physical feel of the camera or the way the camera converts sensor information into a photo. It feels like we are approaching a tech level where resolution will matter less and less. And lets us get back to arguing about optics

Jul 27, 2025 at 08:36 PM

Jack Flesher
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p.4 #8 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

SGinNorcal wrote:
Jack, that explains your problems with X-T better than before. I leave the EC where it is, on the top wheel. I never use auto aperture and rarely auto ISO. So for me, I'm primarily switching auto shutter speed on or off which I do by simply moving the SS dial from A to T or specific SS. I have the SS assigned to the back wheel. I'm using the back wheel for SS more and more since it allows more choices, not just the ones on the dial. My change from aperture priority to manual is two clicks on...Show more →

Thanks SGin, I understand 100% how folks like you and Dan use these cameras, but I left aperture rings and shutter speed dials behind when Nikon abandoned them on the F4 film camera

. Canon had also abandoned them for command wheels around the same time. Wasn�t that like disco era?

My Leica M�s had an aperture ring and SS dial, and no AF which is precisely why I abandoned them. When I first went digital, I had command wheels for SS and aperture on virtually every camera I owned including Medium Format! My point is, using a camera the way I do now, since BEFORE digital launched, makes swapping between ASM (who cares about P) modes so easy, it�s ridiculous to use a backwards methodology just because a camera with all those dials looks so much cooler. Main upside for my XT4 is, I simply only use it in A mode for casual shooting and leave the serious stuff where M or S is preferable to my XH2�s.

Sticking point here with today�s cameras: using M with a pre-established auto ISO range is hugely powerful for certain situations where you want a specific, repetitive DoF and still be able to freeze the ambient action in variable light. Upside 2 is this is also fairly easy to get to from A mode on the XT4; but still more than an ASM twist and ISO button selection � it's a shutter dial twist, command wheel set, and Auto Iso range selection from my Q menu.

Glad this clarifies. Yes, I can get there with the XT line, but it requires a number added steps, and more importantly me having to remember them all to get there, relative to turn it and forget it ASM presets.

As re tech? 1000 percent agree. Virtually any 24+ mp camera today will/is capable of producing an image that is beyond technically excellent. And many photographers are not yet even up to their cameras capabilities yet. Raw adds another layer of technical expertise to those images, but it in no way implies that a well made jpeg cannot also be technically AND artistically excellent. It�s just easier to get there with raw

Jul 27, 2025 at 08:40 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.4 #9 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Jack Flesher wrote:
Dan, A mode requires the extra step of assigning aperture to the Command wheel, C in the user menu. If I want S priority I have to return to a different menu to assign the front wheel to SS. For M mode with the command wheels, I have to assign the back to SS, and lose EC on the rear dial and use the top dial if I want it. With the ASMP Fujis, I set these prefs once in each respective mode and it�s all changed automatically when I move the ASMP dial. IOW, WAYYY easier.

Hmmm�

I _think_ I see what is going on. Maybe.

I understand using the command wheel assignments for such things � I used todo that with the old 27mm f/2.8 that did not have an aperture right.

Maybe I�m dense, but why would you assign aperture to a command wheel when there is an aperture ring on the lens? Or shutter speed when there is a dedicated shutter speed dial? And why assign EC to some dial when there is a dedicated EC dial on the camera already?

We are talking about the XT5, right? I must be missing something�

And later�

Jack Flesher wrote:
�it�s ridiculous to use a backwards methodology just because a camera with all those dials looks so much cooler.

That is most definitively NOT why I like the manual interface of hte XT5. I don�t give a [fill in the blank] about how �much cooler� it looks ��that�s not even something I think about.

For the kinds of photography I mostly do with the XT5, that interface is faster and more direct and intuitive for me. If it weren�t, Iwould get a PASM camera like the other system I use for the other half of my photography.

I wish you could understand this without needing to insult (�� because a camera with all those dials looks so much cooler ��) those of us who like the manual interface and find it better in some cases for our purposes.Give us a little credit, OK?

Jul 27, 2025 at 09:41 PM

Jack Flesher
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p.4 #10 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

@gdanmitchell, I *strongly dislike* using aperture rings since film days as said above. I sold my XT5 a few years ago in favor of the XH2 precisely for all the reasons mentioned above. The reason I bought an XT4, simply I wanted the 26mp XTrans sensor with IBIS to convert to Full Spectrum, and XT4 is the only decent candidate. (Admittedly I have changed my mind about doing the FS conversion, but I like the way the camera looks and so I decided to keep it and adapt.)

I�m happy the legacy, mechanical-feel SS dial and lens Aperture ring adjustments from the film cam era UI is �more intuitive� for you. Again for me, since the last few generations of pre-digital film days, the command wheel interface when lenses dropped aperture rings is FAR superior, or at least more convenient FOR MY USES than a top dial and lens aperture ring. I accept you are different.

Can I use a SS dial and EC on top of the cam and lens aperture ring? Absolutely. But I prefer, and significantly so, setting those with the index finger and/or thumb of my right hand without ever removing my eye from the finder.

Jul 27, 2025 at 10:31 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.4 #11 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Jack Flesher wrote:
I accept you are different.

I accept that we differ.

Jul 27, 2025 at 11:43 PM

Geoff D F
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p.4 #12 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

I like the Fuji shutter, aperture and iso dials, even though I have used PASM interfaces since the early 90s. For me it's about seeing the aperture setting while the camera is off and being able to change the aperture setting and other settings while the camera is off. If I am worried about shutter speed being too low I can dial it in directly letting auto ISO do its job. On a PASM camera I'd need to go from A to M and then dial in the shutter speed.
Nothing to do with cool looks.

Jul 28, 2025 at 12:31 AM

Nielk Mike
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p.4 #13 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

mjm6 wrote:
No, not by you in this thread, but others calling film simulations a "gimmick" is disparaging to people who find it useful or even possibly the reason they have chosen to shoot Fujifilm cameras.

It would be a gimmick if it caused marketing attention without any real use/benefit for people, but that is absolutely not the case, and yet using that terminology places people who use/like the film simulations as somehow "less than" the fully sanctioned approach to photography that the poster clearly practices. It's laughably pathetic.

My goodness, we all have our own paths with photography and people don't need...Show more →

Film Simulations are a "Marketing Gimmick" for me (and there is a history behind them cause Fuji's only claim to fame at the time was their long experience with film and color). But what is a gimmick for me might be a key feature for you. Calling it a gimmick is my take on the feature, but in no way implies that I look down or want to disparage people who find it useful.

Jul 28, 2025 at 01:26 AM

Nielk Mike
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p.4 #14 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

gdanmitchell wrote:
Hmmm�

I _think_ I see what is going on. Maybe.

I understand using the command wheel assignments for such things � I used todo that with the old 27mm f/2.8 that did not have an aperture right.

Maybe I�m dense, but why would you assign aperture to a command wheel when there is an aperture ring on the lens? Or shutter speed when there is a dedicated shutter speed dial? And why assign EC to some dial when there is a dedicated EC dial on the camera already?

We are talking about the XT5, right? I must be missing something�

And later�

That is...Show more →

The reason for using the command dial rather than the dedicated dials for Exposure time and EV is speed and convenience. ISO on my X-T3 and/or X-Pro3 is set to Auto. If needed, I can quickly dial in one of the three different AUTO ISO settings (which I can't with the dedicated dial). Exposure control is on A. So the two variables I use constantly are the f-stop ring on the lens and the front dial to control EV. I could use the dedicated EV dial. But it is harder to operate and distracts, while using my pointer finger to move the front wheel fits into taking the image.

Now, a "connaisseur" would certainly frown at me and set ISO, Exposure, f-stop, and EV all by the dedicated dials. After all, why are there dedicated dials in the first place (and one of them on the X-Pro3 being complicated and expensive to make)? I can think of very limited situations in which a complete manual setup not only makes sense but is required to take a picture. But the images I take 99% of the time don't.

Jul 28, 2025 at 01:40 AM

Geoff D F
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p.4 #15 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Nielk Mike wrote:
Film Simulations are a "Marketing Gimmick" for me (and there is a history behind them cause Fuji's only claim to fame at the time was their long experience with film and color). But what is a gimmick for me might be a key feature for you. Calling it a gimmick is my take on the feature, but in no way implies that I look down or want to disparage people who find it useful.

Fuji's claim to fame goes well beyond their experience with film. They have been a major manufacturer of professional cameras in a way that Canon and Nikon haven't - Xpan, GX680, GW690, GW645zi are just the tip of the iceberg.

Jul 28, 2025 at 03:25 AM

Nielk Mike
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p.4 #16 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Geoff D F wrote:
Fuji's claim to fame goes well beyond their experience with film. They have been a major manufacturer of professional cameras in a way that Canon and Nikon haven't - Xpan, GX680, GW690, GW645zi are just the tip of the iceberg.

In terms of digital SLR experience - that wasn't much. Sony artfully introduced size and AF as key marketing points, while Canon was a household name for DSLR and SLR.

Jul 28, 2025 at 03:42 AM

mjm6
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p.4 #17 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Nielk Mike wrote:
Film Simulations are a "Marketing Gimmick" for me (and there is a history behind them cause Fuji's only claim to fame at the time was their long experience with film and color).

I'm guessing you are young enough to not remember the film days, but people were (and still are) very much attached to certain looks that a particular film would produce. Used film prices for long out of date film stock is an attestation to the merit of developing a specific film simulation. People like the way certain films portrayed the world and some people would prefer to work within those constraints.

Further, you clearly don't know the history of Fujifilm cameras and their partnerships in the past, including lenses and bodies for several Hasselblad bodies and systems, like the now cult-like X-Pan cameras and lenses for the H system when Hasselblad went away from Carl Zeiss. In addition Fujifilm produced many excellent film bodies and systems, including my favorite, the GX617 bodies that utilized their excellent large format lenses in an interchangeable 6x17cm body, for four glorious shots per roll of 120 film.

On top of that, they produced a line of large format lenses, some of which no other manufacturer produced a similar competitor to, some of which came out of their industrial optical manufacturing background and found their way into the commercial space. They're excellent lenses and their coating technologies were second to none back in the day.

I don't personally use film simulations because I want my image captures to be more like a negative than a positive, but I completely see the value and merit of them, even if you don't.

Jul 28, 2025 at 11:44 PM

Nielk Mike
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p.4 #18 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

mjm6 wrote:
I'm guessing you are young enough to not remember the film days, but people were (and still are) very much attached to certain looks that a particular film would produce. Used film prices for long out of date film stock is an attestation to the merit of developing a specific film simulation. People like the way certain films portrayed the world and some people would prefer to work within those constraints.

Further, you clearly don't know the history of Fujifilm cameras and their partnerships in the past, including lenses and bodies for several Hasselblad bodies and systems, like the now cult-like...Show more →

Not only do I remember the film days - but I have been part of it since the late 70ies. Today, I don't need to "simulate" any film looks but work from a RAW to edit to taste. If others do find film sims cool - power to them. Doesn't change my view that they are marketing USPs - and the dedicated dial is proof of that.

Fuji may have had a history in manual film cameras - but when digital came up, there was little they had to offer against Sony and Canon. So they used their film background as USP. Nothing wrong with that.

Jul 29, 2025 at 12:11 AM

Geoff D F
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p.4 #19 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

It wasn't film sims that made the X100 and Xpro successful. Olympus, Panasonic, Sony and Fuji couldn't compete directly with Canikon, but correctly guessed mirrorless was the future and went that direction early. Fuji went for the unique hybrid ovf/evf for their flagships, which was a key differentiator.

Other companies were putting in different jpeg looks at the time, which was an expansion from the first generation of digitals, where you could only adjust saturation and sharpness.
Fuji instead gave their sims film names, instead of names like landscape, vivid, neutral or whatever.

Jul 29, 2025 at 04:07 AM

Nielk Mike
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p.4 #20 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

Geoff D F wrote:
It wasn't film sims that made the X100 and Xpro successful. Olympus, Panasonic, Sony and Fuji couldn't compete directly with Canikon, but correctly guessed mirrorless was the future and went that direction early. Fuji went for the unique hybrid ovf/evf for their flagships, which was a key differentiator.

Other companies were putting in different jpeg looks at the time, which was an expansion from the first generation of digitals, where you could only adjust saturation and sharpness.
Fuji instead gave their sims film names, instead of names like landscape, vivid, neutral or whatever.

No question, the HVF and the retro look were also USPs that Fuji used - which together with the Film Simulations were their claim to fame. Now they double down on those Film Sims by putting direct controls into their cameras.

Jul 29, 2025 at 04:25 AM

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