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Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????

  
 
AmbientMike
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p.8 #1 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


Raw is the responsible adult method of photography. I just wasn't sure people are that interested in my responsible adult photos

I definitely do not enjoy shooting thinking about pp in the field. Not that i can get away from all of it, but thinking about pp during shooting raw is not fun and it hurts the photos



Aug 09, 2025 at 11:25 PM
AmbientMike
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p.8 #2 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????




chez wrote:
Why handicap oneself now as you are not stuck to “got what you got”. Processing raws to achieve the look you want is very powerful and liberating.


The file size isn’t liberating, often neither is pp. At some point it tends to feel fake if you edit a lot, as well



Aug 09, 2025 at 11:30 PM
chez
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p.8 #3 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


AmbientMike wrote:
The file size isn’t liberating, often neither is pp. At some point it tends to feel fake if you edit a lot, as well


And using different film simulations to obtain different results isn’t fake?

Disk space is so cheap…file size is a non issue.



Aug 10, 2025 at 08:30 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.8 #4 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


rbf_ wrote:
In the spirit of of looking at things from at things from different angles, I think this is skewed in the direction of producing "landscape" or "fine art" photographs. Which each have definitions that can vary for various reasons. And I am certianly in the habit of shooting raw for my current purposes so I don't wholly disagree with the viewpoints you are expressing. But I also have certain photographs made on old Kodak instant cameras of people and places that are not of very great quality technically but are priceless in terms of value to me. The same can
...Show more

It clearly is not limited to just landscape photos, nor to “fine art photographs,” whatever that means. This is the practice with things like portrait photographs (as much or more than with landscapes) and even street and travel photoraphy.

As to the photos from “old Kodak instant cameras” and point and shoot jpg cameras, we all have at least some of those. The modern equivalent might be photos from our smart phones, which many of us use to grab what one photographer friend calls “happy snap” images along with the stuff we do with better gear.

Photographs can work on many levels. In some cases it might be almost entirely about what is captured in the image — dear long-dead relatives, a shot of our small children on a family trip years ago, a shot of college buddies, a picture of a family member shaking hands with a president, etc. These things have value even if they don’t aspire to esthetics beauty or power.
t
But if that is an argument against shooting raw and regarding post-processing work as equal partners in the creation of excellent photography… then it is also an argument against using any kind of sophisticated gear at all and even an argument against bothering to concern ourselves with things like careful exposure or composition at the time of capture. Yes, a poorly composed, under-exposed photograph, a quick grab-shot of an important (to use) event has value, but…

… that’s kind of like pointing out that a drive in Grandpa’s old farm pickup truck can be loads of fun and evoke all sorts of warm memories, and extrapolating from that to suggest that there’s no need for newer or better vehicles. I once was moved by the performance of an objectively untalented street musician, but that doesn’t negate the power of Mahler’s second Symphony.



Aug 10, 2025 at 08:31 AM
rbf_
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p.8 #5 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


gdanmitchell wrote:
It clearly is not limited to just landscape photos, nor to “fine art photographs,” whatever that means. This is the practice with things like portrait photographs (as much or more than with landscapes) and even street and travel photoraphy.


Good point, I did not mean to limit it specifically to those categories. For example, I have professionally done photographs and old Kodak instant photographs of long dead relatives that I value highly for the content of the image.

gdanmitchell wrote:
As to the photos from “old Kodak instant cameras” and point and shoot jpg cameras, we all have at least some of those. The modern equivalent might be photos from our smart phones, which many of us use to grab what one photographer friend calls “happy snap” images along with the stuff we do with better gear.

Photographs can work on many levels. In some cases it might be almost entirely about what is captured in the image — dear long-dead relatives, a shot of our small children on a family trip years ago, a shot of college buddies, a picture
...Show more

This is more what I'm saying. But photographs may also have value in other ways, solving crimes, historical importance, scientific relavance. I think that photography is relatively new and has intrinsic value.

gdanmitchell wrote:
But if that is an argument against shooting raw and regarding post-processing work as equal partners in the creation of excellent photography… then it is also an argument against using any kind of sophisticated gear at all and even an argument against bothering to concern ourselves with things like careful exposure or composition at the time of capture. Yes, a poorly composed, under-exposed photograph, a quick grab-shot of an important (to use) event has value, but…

… that’s kind of like pointing out that a drive in Grandpa’s old farm pickup truck can be loads of fun and evoke all sorts
...Show more

I was not making that argument.




Aug 10, 2025 at 09:07 AM
gyoung143
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p.8 #6 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


AmbientMike wrote:
The file size isn’t liberating, often neither is pp. At some point it tends to feel fake if you edit a lot, as well


A personal 'hate' is when the lightening of the shadows we have been advocating is taken so far that there are no shadows any more, the highlights have 'relief' caused by the sun but the former shadows are equal (or nearly so) brightness, plenty of detal but no 'relief' from direct sunlight. Much beloved of magazine covers sadly.

Gerry



Aug 10, 2025 at 09:28 AM
Jack Flesher
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p.8 #7 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


AmbientMike wrote:
The file size isn’t liberating, often neither is pp. At some point it tends to feel fake if you edit a lot, as well


I understand not wanting to post process, thats a choice. Also if you want an image you can share immediately, jpeg is the format to shoot in; and given screen resolution in most phones and tablets, a 2048 pixel image is plenty big enough. Wait, if that’s what you want, then most new phones can deliver well beyond that, and having a separate camera is pretty pointless…

For me, file storage is cheap and I enjoy processing to an optimal final image. But my reality is that what I share most are 4096 px jpegs. And for this reason I am seriously considering bailing out of everything except my cellphone — it’s good enough for 80% of what I do now, and it’s always with me.



Aug 10, 2025 at 09:30 AM
AmbientMike
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p.8 #8 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????



gyoung143 wrote:
A personal 'hate' is when the lightening of the shadows we have been advocating is taken so far that there are no shadows any more, the highlights have 'relief' caused by the sun but the former shadows are equal (or nearly so) brightness, plenty of detal but no 'relief' from direct sunlight. Much beloved of magazine covers sadly.

Gerry


I just haven't had much luck getting anything on the high DR pp. Clearly if youre picking up shadows 3+ stops on aps you need to be shooting raw, but i tend to shoot locally so I can go back when the light is good, and don't really need the DR. Although one time I do use raw is if something might blow out, often the case on landscape

I dont tend to edit much, though and jpeg is a valid method of photography. Had a lot of fun shooting jpegs early on before I knew much about pp or raw files.



Aug 10, 2025 at 01:24 PM
AmbientMike
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p.8 #9 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????




Jack Flesher wrote:
I understand not wanting to post process, thats a choice. Also if you want an image you can share immediately, jpeg is the format to shoot in; and given screen resolution in most phones and tablets, a 2048 pixel image is plenty big enough. Wait, if that’s what you want, then most new phones can deliver well beyond that, and having a separate camera is pretty pointless…

For me, file storage is cheap and I enjoy processing to an optimal final image. But my reality is that what I share most are 4096 px jpegs. And for this reason I
...Show more

Oh, man, not the phones lol. I am definitely not into phone photography very much, if it comes to using phones instead of cameras I might be done. I do a lot of tele though and phones don't seem so good on that



Aug 10, 2025 at 01:27 PM
Jack Flesher
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p.8 #10 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


AmbientMike wrote:
Oh, man, not the phones lol. I am definitely not into phone photography very much, if it comes to using phones instead of cameras I might be done. I do a lot of tele though and phones don't seem so good on that


IDK. My iPhone jpegs are pretty darn good. So good I am seriously considering selling all my conventional camera gear.



Aug 10, 2025 at 06:17 PM
 


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AmbientMike
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p.8 #11 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????




Jack Flesher wrote:
IDK. My iPhone jpegs are pretty darn good. So good I am seriously considering selling all my conventional camera gear.


I'd rather have 16mp camera than use phones, myself. Just not into phone photography really



Aug 11, 2025 at 08:30 PM
Jack Flesher
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p.8 #12 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


AmbientMike wrote:
I'd rather have 16mp camera than use phones, myself. Just not into phone photography really


I understand. But what’s the real point? We enjoy using nice gear, but at the end of the day they’re both pictures; and most of the people we know that can see the difference have posted on this thread. IOW, for the most part our audiences don’t care... Damn, that’s a depressing realization.



Aug 12, 2025 at 09:39 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.8 #13 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


Jack Flesher wrote:
We enjoy using nice gear, but at the end of the day they’re both pictures; and most of the people we know that can see the difference have posted on this thread. IOW, for the most part our audiences don’t care... Damn, that’s a depressing realization.


Hey, Jack, you seem to have gone from one extreme to the other in the last couple of posts. I hope everything is OK!

My view is that the smartphone/camera question isn't necessarily a binary. When I'm out doing my "serious" photography — especially while traveling — I use both. Sometimes the smartphone works faster and better and less obtrusively... even when I'm mostly relying on the "real" camera."

Funny story about that. A few months ago my wife and I were in Ghent and walking up a small street famous for its graffiti. I had my XT5 out with the usual 27mm prime on it when a fascinating cyclist approached. It was all happening too fast and I could not reset from a close up of the graffiti to settings appropriate for the cyclist, much less frame up a shot quickly enough.

Meanwhile my wife fired off a perfectly composed iPhone snap.






Photo by Patricia Emerson Mitchell

As a photographer friend is famous for saying about good work by others, "I hate you!" was my first response when she showed me what she captured. She just laughed. At me. ;-)



Edited on Aug 12, 2025 at 03:48 PM · View previous versions



Aug 12, 2025 at 11:31 AM
SGinNorcal
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p.8 #14 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


Jack Flesher wrote:
I understand. But what’s the real point? We enjoy using nice gear, but at the end of the day they’re both pictures; and most of the people we know that can see the difference have posted on this thread. IOW, for the most part our audiences don’t care... Damn, that’s a depressing realization.


Having a bad photo day/week/month? If you can tell the difference, isn't that the most important thing? The vast majority of my work is never seen by anyone but me.



Aug 12, 2025 at 12:36 PM
AmbientMike
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p.8 #15 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????




Jack Flesher wrote:
I understand. But what’s the real point? We enjoy using nice gear, but at the end of the day they’re both pictures; and most of the people we know that can see the difference have posted on this thread. IOW, for the most part our audiences don’t care... Damn, that’s a depressing realization.


It's basically the same as on film believe it or not. You have basically p&s's, smartphones that do well wider. But if you need teles they're not so good.

I found p&s too limiting on film and phones seem similar. No interchangeable lenses, limited using teles plus I do a lot of macro. Plus I'm just not interested in using them, really.



Aug 12, 2025 at 01:11 PM
Jack Flesher
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p.8 #16 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


gdanmitchell wrote:
Hey, Jack, you seem to have gone from one extreme to the other in the last couple of posts. I hope everything is OK!

My view is that the smartphone/camera question isn't necessarily a binary. When I'm out doing my "serious" photography — especially while traveling — I use both. Sometimes the smartphone works faster and better and less obtrusively... even when I'm mostly relying on the "real" camera."

Funny story about that. A few months ago my wife and I were in Ghent and walking up a small street famous for its graffiti. I had my XT5 out with the usual
...Show more

That Ghent graffiti "alley" was one of my favorite strolls in all of the Netherlands! I have an entire series of images from it. At the time, I was schlepping a Nikon Z9 with 24-120 or 14-30 as my "travel" camera It was ironically that trip now just two years ago that convinced me to go smaller, hence the Fuji X kit.

But yes, over the past month or so, I've come to realize the gear is all just a simple pleasure that isn't really necessary anymore. For me it's about the memories, and the iPhone can generate totally adequate reminders...

Me in that alley. My daughter took this shot on her iPhone (14?) and literally just had it printed out to 4x6 and gave it to me last week for my birthday. I just scanned the print on my old flatbed to post here, so it's about as bad a 3rd generation copy as you can get; and while it isn't perfect, it's definitely is a "great memory" for me!






Edited on Aug 12, 2025 at 04:12 PM · View previous versions



Aug 12, 2025 at 03:46 PM
Jack Flesher
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p.8 #17 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


SGinNorcal wrote:
Having a bad photo day/week/month? If you can tell the difference, isn't that the most important thing? The vast majority of my work is never seen by anyone but me.


Yes. But it's more than that. It's the realization it --the difference or improvement of good gear over an iPhone-- really doesn't matter to me anymore. Good enough is...



Aug 12, 2025 at 03:50 PM
Jack Flesher
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p.8 #18 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


AmbientMike wrote:
It's basically the same as on film believe it or not. You have basically p&s's, smartphones that do well wider. But if you need teles they're not so good.

I found p&s too limiting on film and phones seem similar. No interchangeable lenses, limited using teles plus I do a lot of macro. Plus I'm just not interested in using them, really.


I shoot so little wildlife or anything else at great distance now, so rarely am using anything longer than an effective 105 on my cameras. Admittedly one small hesitation is the grandkids will start sports soon. The XH2 with 70-300 could be a good tool to have. But will it really matter more to me or them than just being present watching them? I doubt it...



Aug 12, 2025 at 03:53 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.8 #19 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


Jack Flesher wrote:
That Ghent graffiti "alley" was one of my favorite strolls in all of the Netherlands! I have an entire series of images from it. At the time, I was schlepping a Nikon Z9 with 24-105 or 14-30 as my "travel" camera It was ironically that trip now just two years ago that convinced me to go smaller, hence the Fuji X kit.

But yes, over the past month or so, I've come to realize the gear is all just a simple pleasure that isn't really necessary anymore. For me it's about the memories, and the iPhone can generate
...Show more

I did not know about that alley when we took a one-day side trip to Ghent from Brussels this past spring. In fact, we might have missed it if we hadn’t more or less accidentally done a particular walking loop after looking for lunch. I think I spent more time photographing in that alley than anywhere else in the city — though I was obsessed with one particular shot from a bridge that had the potential to include more spires that I have ever squeezed into one shot.

As is probably obvious from a lot of my posts here, I’ve seriously downsized my travel photography gear, though with my preference still (usually*) bieing to use primes and more than one of them, and my intention to make photos that I might print or even sell, I still stick to the APS-C format. On the trip to Belgium (which was a brief “final movement” of a trip that was mostly in Spain and Portugal) I was carrying the 14mm f/2.8, the 27mm f/2.8, and the 50mm f/2.

That’s not exactly “pocketable,” but the camera with just the 27mm fits into a very small PacSafe shoulder bag that I like to carry for urban travel, and I can even squeeze one of the other two lenses in with it. I have a slighlty larger shoulder bag that I use if I need to carry all three.

For me, that’s turned out to be a pretty workable compromise for the way I shoot street and travel photography. It really doesn’t weigh me down at all, and it produces excellent image quality. It isn’t the only possible solution, and I recognize that others may prefer something different.

But I still carry the smartphone and occasionally pull it out — specifically to grab “people pictures” of us and people we meet and travel with, to get quick shots of place and events that will mostly be of personal interest, and sometimes to do some shots that are just plain easier on the phone, such as night panoramas, etc.

Your note about using a 24-105 takes me back a bit. I had a 24-105 early on with my larger Canon system, and it was a great travel lens when I used that larger system — there wasn’t much that I couldn’t shoot with it, at least if I was willing to push ISO a bit.

Dan



*Aobut that “usually…” In May 2024 we walked the Great Glen Way in Scotland. While I prefer primes for street photography, I definitely prefer the compositional control of zooms for landscape, so on that trip I packed the 16-55mm f/2.8 plus a few primes. (I know I carried the 27mm f/2.8 and the 90mm f/2 — I like longer focal lengths for landscapes sometimes — and I might have also brought the 14mm f/2.8 for use in cities.) The zoom was on the camera by default on the walk. Since I had it with me, I did use it a few times for city photography, too.



Aug 12, 2025 at 04:02 PM
Jack Flesher
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p.8 #20 · Why am I using the X-Pro3 more than the a7cR????


Correction to my post above -- I defaulted to 24-105 when the actual Z lens was the 24-120!


Aug 12, 2025 at 04:12 PM
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