p.9 #1 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
Hodie wrote:
For those saying IBIS isn’t needed, you’re probably right, but it’s the principle. Stick it in because you can. Same with everything else everyone is disappointed about. Make the body slightly bigger and cram in some of the tech that is baseline for all new Sony bodies. Also, the lens may be great but not using a newer lens seems so lazy.
I’m glad this camera is what some of you are looking for, but after nearly 10 years, this is the update?!?!?
Sticking in IBIS likely wouldn't have been without compromise to the size of the camera, and thus they likely chose to preserve the size, which in my view was the right choice. It's not about principle, and they likely can't just "stick it in" without compromising other things.
p.9 #2 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
Jaree wrote:
On the subject of IBIS in general: it is not a requirement for photography, but neither is AF, nor is 61MP a requirement. And one does not need a LCD screen either. The point about IBIS (or OIS in case of Leica Qxx) is the ability to shoot at base ISO at way lower shutter speeds than most people can without stabilization and still ensure tripod equivalent results. How was it done during the good old DSLR days is the same as asking how did people travel before automobiles - via a horse carriage.
If someone doesn't need stabilization then great. But those who have experienced it understand that it opens up a lot possibilities.
Leica got this right with OIS in Q series.
With that out of the way, I hope RX1R prices fall further. Had that a decade ago and while it was slippery little eel, the results were worth it....Show more →
Your list of all the other things “we don’t need” in order to make photographs is right on. Heck, we _could_ make photographs with pinhole cameras.
(I might add that we can also make photographs without digital cameras at all. Ahem.)
But some features are examples of all plus and no minus — and IBIS is one of those. The worst downside to IBIS is that it might add a few grams and maybe a few millimeters to the camera size, though today IBIS makes its way into some very compact gear. Other than that, it has no negative effect on your photography whatsoever. Heck, you can even turn it off if you want.
I guarantee you — here speaking as a photographer who used fully manual film cameras successfully for decades — that there most certainly are situations in which its pluses are useful. There are plenty of marginal light situations in which it can allow you to handhold photographs that would have required a tripod in the past. (And, yes, there are still lots of situations where a tripod is imortant.) Even at more “normal” shutter speeds it will decrease the always-present camera motion blur in handheld shots.
p.9 #3 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
No, I can't imagine the whining and I would have bought it. Cramming a FF sensor in a compact camera was also impossible until it became possible.
chez wrote:
But the Q cameras are much larger and heavier than the RX1r cameras…not to mention even more expensive. Could you imagine the whining here if Sony came out with a $6,700 RX1r that was much larger but had ibis. You are damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
p.9 #4 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
Exactly. Reading between the lines, I guess you agree with my take on IBIS. It is a game changer.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Your list of all the other things “we don’t need” in order to make photographs is right on. Heck, we _could_ make photographs with pinhole cameras.
(I might add that we can also make photographs without digital cameras at all. Ahem.)
But some features are examples of all plus and no minus — and IBIS is one of those. The worse downside to IBIS is that it might add a few grams and maybe a few millimeters to the camera size, though today IBIS makes its way into some very compact gear. Other than that, it has no negative effect on your photography whatsoever. Heck, you can even turn it off if you want.
I guarantee you — here speaking as a photographer who used full manual cameras successfully for decades — that thre most certainly are situations in which its pluses are useful. There are plenty of marginal light situations in which it can allow you to handhold photographs that would have required a tripod in the past. (And, yes, there are still lots of situations where a tripod is imortant.) Even at more “normal” shutter speeds it will decrease the always-present camera motion blur in handheld shots.
p.9 #6 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
Price becomes less “stupid” if it ticked the boxes everyone has identified—IBIS, tilting lcd, and id add fps to the list (5 is slow). But only less stupid. Even if it had included those features, it would still be a very expensive camera for an enthusiast, just one without the obvious shortcomings.
Robin Smith wrote:
Nice camera - stupid price. A bit like the Leica Qs I guess, but it doesn’t have their elite appeal.
p.9 #7 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
gdanmitchell wrote:
Your list of all the other things “we don’t need” in order to make photographs is right on. Heck, we _could_ make photographs with pinhole cameras.
Brad is making good use of a pinhole camera here @bjhurley
p.9 #9 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
Hodie wrote:
For those saying IBIS isn’t needed, you’re probably right, but it’s the principle. Stick it in because you can. Same with everything else everyone is disappointed about. Make the body slightly bigger and cram in some of the tech that is baseline for all new Sony bodies. Also, the lens may be great but not using a newer lens seems so lazy.
I’m glad this camera is what some of you are looking for, but after nearly 10 years, this is the update?!?!?
I'm not sure traditional IBIS would be a good fit for the lens that close to the sensor. I think OSS would probably be the best solution, with the lens working to keep the IC centered over the sensor instead of the sensor moving around in the IC, but I don't know if they could accomplish that with this design. And, while it may seem lazy, not redesigning the lens may have felt like the logical choice to their product development team. The lens is beloved, where people seem to tolerate the quirks of the camera wrapped around it. Maybe they felt it was best not to mess with it. Besides, Leica used their 28 three times, and it doesn't even cover the entire sensor.
p.9 #10 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
Re. the price, a bargain compared to the Q3 43. And we will soon have brand-new-receipt-in-your-name at slightly lower than retail offers on buy-sell board so that solves the price part.
p.9 #12 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
The original RX1 was announced in September 2012 and the original A7/R were announced 13 months later in October 2013. I have photos of myself comparing them at Photo Plus in 2013. I had both when they were brand new and considering 13 year old technology which was amazing for the time vs. the RX1RIII which isn't amazing technology at this time and price probably should be more in the $4200 area than $5100 even with the stupid tariff situation.
p.9 #13 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
weezintrumpete wrote:
Sticking in IBIS likely wouldn't have been without compromise to the size of the camera, and thus they likely chose to preserve the size, which in my view was the right choice. It's not about principle, and they likely can't just "stick it in" without compromising other things.
I understand that for sure and it was a tongue in cheek comment. I’m glad the camera checks certain boxes for some folks. I do think Sony missed an opportunity to do something more special for the price but I guess that’s being unrealistic.
p.9 #14 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
freaklikeme wrote:
I'm not sure traditional IBIS would be a good fit for the lens that close to the sensor. I think OSS would probably be the best solution, with the lens working to keep the IC centered over the sensor instead of the sensor moving around in the IC, but I don't know if they could accomplish that with this design. And, while it may seem lazy, not redesigning the lens may have felt like the logical choice to their product development team. The lens is beloved, where people seem to tolerate the quirks of the camera wrapped around it. Maybe they felt it was best not to mess with it. Besides, Leica used their 28 three times, and it doesn't even cover the entire sensor....Show more →
Fair points. I will stop pre-complaining about a camera I may end up buying one day
p.9 #15 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
I think the fact that there is a specific balance of compromises that has us debating this so heatedly is fantastic.
I'm a product nerd and I've found that if you don't feel like you're making compromises, you don't have enough opinions regarding what you're trying to accomplish. It's so easy to end up with the Homer car: something that has every feature possible but absolutely sucks.
It's clear that Sony was targeting the most powerful/highest quality fixed lens 35mm camera they could make within a VERY specific size budget. I can see how that wouldn't appeal to everyone, but to folks who are looking for this mix of features in a very small size, the compromises may be palatable. I'll be watching this camera very closely and I suspect I am going to start moving a lot of gear out of my collection so I can economically justify the high price. I just had such a blast shooting it's predecessor.
Truthfully, the only concern for me specifically is the lack of the tilt up/down screen. I have found that to be wonderful in practice to get shots at different angles and from different perspectives. In fact, now that I have cameras that have a full flip screen, I find myself missing the less involved tilt up/down of the RX1R II LCD.
Edit: I don't know who I'm kidding, I'm going to be liquidating over time to get this camera. I learned that compromises made me a much better photographer due to the RX1R II and I captured so many beautiful memories of my children while they were little with the thing. There's no way I'm not going to pick up the new one at some point and figure out how to get more beautiful memories out of it's particular set of compromises.
p.9 #18 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
zerodeefex wrote:
I think the fact that there is a specific balance of compromises that has us debating this so heatedly is fantastic.
I'm a product nerd and I've found that if you don't feel like you're making compromises, you don't have enough opinions regarding what you're trying to accomplish. It's so easy to end up with the Homer car: something that has every feature possible but absolutely sucks.
It's clear that Sony was targeting the most powerful/highest quality fixed lens 35mm camera they could make within a VERY specific size budget. I can see how that wouldn't appeal to everyone, but to folks who are looking for this mix of features in a very small size, the compromises may be palatable. I'll be watching this camera very closely and I suspect I am going to start moving a lot of gear out of my collection so I can economically justify the high price. I just had such a blast shooting it's predecessor.
Truthfully, the only concern for me specifically is the lack of the tilt up/down screen. I have found that to be wonderful in practice to get shots at different angles and from different perspectives. In fact, now that I have cameras that have a full flip screen, I find myself missing the less involved tilt up/down of the RX1R II LCD.
Edit: I don't know who I'm kidding, I'm going to be liquidating over time to get this camera. I learned that compromises made me a much better photographer due to the RX1R II and I captured so many beautiful memories of my children while they were little with the thing. There's no way I'm not going to pick up the new one at some point and figure out how to get more beautiful memories out of it's particular set of compromises....Show more →
I think you're right on with this. Products are all about compromises, and finding the right ones that fit the target market are what matters. We'll see if Sony did that here.
I still use my RX1RII to take photos of my family and it's almost perfect with that. If I didn't have battery anxiety, it would be just about perfect. I even find the AF in continuous / face / eye tracking to be pretty darn good. The RIII solves the battery problem and gives me even better AF, so I can't really complain. For the price though, I do wish there was a better EVF. Although I honestly don't find the one in the RII lacking all that much, honestly.
p.9 #19 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
zerodeefex wrote:
I think the fact that there is a specific balance of compromises that has us debating this so heatedly is fantastic.
I'm a product nerd and I've found that if you don't feel like you're making compromises, you don't have enough opinions regarding what you're trying to accomplish. It's so easy to end up with the Homer car: something that has every feature possible but absolutely sucks.
It's clear that Sony was targeting the most powerful/highest quality fixed lens 35mm camera they could make within a VERY specific size budget. I can see how that wouldn't appeal to everyone, but to folks who are looking for this mix of features in a very small size, the compromises may be palatable. I'll be watching this camera very closely and I suspect I am going to start moving a lot of gear out of my collection so I can economically justify the high price. I just had such a blast shooting it's predecessor.
Truthfully, the only concern for me specifically is the lack of the tilt up/down screen. I have found that to be wonderful in practice to get shots at different angles and from different perspectives. In fact, now that I have cameras that have a full flip screen, I find myself missing the less involved tilt up/down of the RX1R II LCD.
Edit: I don't know who I'm kidding, I'm going to be liquidating over time to get this camera. I learned that compromises made me a much better photographer due to the RX1R II and I captured so many beautiful memories of my children while they were little with the thing. There's no way I'm not going to pick up the new one at some point and figure out how to get more beautiful memories out of it's particular set of compromises....Show more →
I totally agree that compromises have to be made to deliver what this camera series offers within its small size. What makes this release hard to digest is that Sony took a 10 years old camera, just added a small number of 'fixes' to improve a bit on some of the shortcomings of that model and in the process added another $1700 to the price. It is looks like a better camera overall and the improvements are definitely welcome. However given the time it took to update the camera, and the vey high new price point, the improvements feel somewhat underwhelming.
p.9 #20 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
preordered. Really, for a given price point and design target, RX1iii balance the trade offs well, keep its core value: Sonnar and <500g pocketable size, a classic re-born. I have been waiting for this camera for almost 5 years.
IBIS would be nice but not adding another few hundred bucks, a potential of degrading IQ or a few mm depth and a few tens of grams.
Great EVF certainly is a plus but not at cost of size and weight, battery per shot and a few more hundred bucks. 80% if not 90% I will just use LCD only for this one. For camera of this size, flip LCD is not needed. I noticed this only recently after having GFX 100 II, Panasonic S1R2 and Nikon Z8, flush tight designed body vs flip connivence to me is 50/50 trade off, for camera as this size, I would say I prefer fixed screen.
it is $500 more expensive than it should be. (IMHO) At the same time, it is a free market that nobody force me to order one. If this is the price I have to pay to get a camera like RX1iii, so be it. It is a niche and expensive camera, just as original RX1 or RX1II but I know it will have a lot more milage than any other cameras in next couple of years with me.
