p.37 #1 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
luismanibarro wrote:
I've been a professional photographer for 40 years.
I've been using cameras from Mamiya RZ67, Hasselblads 500's and 900's, Sinar paired with Schneider lenses, Contax RTSIII, Digital Canon's from 5D on till 5DmkIII, Nikon D800, Fujifilm X-T1, X-T2, X100V, and now Sony's A7IV and A7CR.
And I still have no clue what "character" and "3D pop" is, and how people can see and measure it.
Is it something absolute? you have it or you don't have it? Are there levels for it? maybe different types of characters (like my girlfriend's or my mother in law's?
So, in short, honestly, are you kidding me?
If you have to clue what photography is, please shut up, read and learn. But please do not try to teach someone cause you've just had a revealing conversation with a Leica man who told you that once you pay for an expensive item, you belong to a club where things can not be measured, but cryptically enjoyed....Show more →
It's genuinely subjective, not everyone sees (or values) this effect equally.
But since you've been in the game for a long time here's how to consider it. "3D pop" come from specific optical characteristics, that lenses from all manufacturers can have, depending on when and how the lens was put together:
- Controlled spherical aberration that creates gentle "glow" around sharp details
- Field curvature that makes backgrounds appear to wrap around subjects naturally (fuji 35mm f1.4 R one of the original fuji trinity lenses shows this off quite nicely)
- High micro-contrast that preserves subtle tonal gradations (a lot of leica and zeiss lenses are formulated with this in mind)
- Smooth focus transitions and creamy bokeh, some lenses have a very busy bokeh quality
These types of characteristics are often "corrected away" in modern lens designs, which is why these more modern lenses and lenses built for ultra high res sensors may lack this quality despite being technically superior and have edge to edge sharpness etc. etc
I've kept my original fuji trinity of lenses even though the AF isn't as good as their newer gen 2 designs due to their intentional optical design choices at the time that prioritized micro-contrast over clinical perfection but do so in a way that renders quite nicely for my needs.
p.37 #2 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
35mmshooter wrote:
It's genuinely subjective, not everyone sees (or values) this effect equally.
But since you've been in the game for a long time here's how to consider it. "3D pop" come from specific optical characteristics, that lenses from all manufacturers can have, depending on when and how the lens was put together:
- Controlled spherical aberration that creates gentle "glow" around sharp details
- Field curvature that makes backgrounds appear to wrap around subjects naturally (fuji 35mm f1.4 R one of the original fuji trinity lenses shows this off quite nicely)
- High micro-contrast that preserves subtle tonal gradations (a lot of leica and zeiss lenses are formulated with this in mind)
- Smooth focus transitions and creamy bokeh, some lenses have a very busy bokeh quality
These types of characteristics are often "corrected away" in modern lens designs, which is why these more modern lenses and lenses built for ultra high res sensors may lack this quality despite being technically superior and have edge to edge sharpness etc. etc
I've kept my original fuji trinity of lenses even though the AF isn't as good as their newer gen 2 designs due to their intentional optical design choices at the time that prioritized micro-contrast over clinical perfection but do so in a way that renders quite nicely for my needs.
p.37 #3 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
jeffbuzz wrote:
All those image characteristics you described can be achieved through composition, lighting and post-processing.
Or just get the right lens and skip all the special lighting and post processing. With today’s AI based post processing…anything is possible…but that’s not the point.
p.37 #5 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
Does anyone know when this camera will be supported by LR or C1? I can only open RAW files with Sony’s app and edit them there, but it doesn’t have any batch editing functionality…
p.37 #6 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
hncc.photo wrote:
Does anyone know when this camera will be supported by LR or C1? I can only open RAW files with Sony’s app and edit them there, but it doesn’t have any batch editing functionality…
You could batch edit the EXIF back to the previous model, as the lens profile should be nearly identical.
Otherwise just have to wait for the next LR update. They've been on a two month cadence and the next would come mid August if that continues.
p.37 #7 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
Somewhere in this 37 page post I recall saying that if you want 3D "pop," you make a mask for whatever you deem important in the image, and then make another for the "background," adjust the opacity as you see fit and lo and behold, the image "pops."
I'm no professional but have been at this a long time, on and off for 70 years, from 35mm film through 6x6 and 4x5 film. I did darkroom work for 40 years. I've also used Nikon, Fuji, and Sony digital cameras, now with a Sony A7RV and GM lenses.
I agree with luismanibarro that the rest is pure baloney.
p.37 #8 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
hncc.photo wrote:
Does anyone know when this camera will be supported by LR or C1? I can only open RAW files with Sony’s app and edit them there, but it doesn’t have any batch editing functionality…
Not sure if this is what you need but maybe worth a look while waiting for LR/C1 support:
"Saving image-processing settings and applying them to another image or to multiple images at once"
p.37 #9 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
doc4x5 wrote:
Somewhere in this 37 page post I recall saying that if you want 3D "pop," you make a mask for whatever you deem important in the image, and then make another for the "background," adjust the opacity as you see fit and lo and behold, the image "pops."
I'm no professional but have been at this a long time, on and off for 70 years, from 35mm film through 6x6 and 4x5 film. I did darkroom work for 40 years. I've also used Nikon, Fuji, and Sony digital cameras, now with a Sony A7RV and GM lenses.
I agree with luismanibarro that the rest is pure baloney. ...Show more →
I also have seen no evidence of this thing people call “3D pop” that can be associated with lenses.
There are a variety of things one can do to produce an image with whatever this “pop” thing is, but it ain’t buying some lens.
Whatever “it” is, it comes from skill and vision in using composition, color relationships, controlling/using light, positioning a subject, and potentially a range of post processing techniques.
p.37 #10 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
gdanmitchell wrote:
Whatever “it” is, it comes from skill and vision in using composition, color relationships, controlling/using light, positioning a subject, and potentially a range of post processing techniques.
Doubtful anyone owns such skill and vision. I think you're overlooking the 'magic' aspect here, the pop is most often a result of dumb luck, nothing more.
p.37 #12 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
hncc.photo wrote:
Does anyone know when this camera will be supported by LR or C1? I can only open RAW files with Sony’s app and edit them there, but it doesn’t have any batch editing functionality…
For Capture One, you could edit the exif to change the camera model to one with the same sensor (e.g. A7CR II, I think) and then manually select either of the lens profiles "Sony CyberShot DSC-RX1" or "Sony CyberShot DSC-RX1R". The first one had an antialiasing filter and the second one didn’t.
p.37 #13 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
melcat wrote:
I’ve owned my RX1 for 12 years and two Zeiss lenses for my DSLR for 13 and 8 years respectively, and I have no idea what ‘3D pop’ is supposed to be.
we have certainly had enough of those infernal 3d threads over the last couple decades to firmly establish that nobody agrees on what is or isn't "3D" let alone which lenses produce it. there are certainly lots of easily observable lens traits beyond sharpness and contrast that have large impacts on pictures though.
Seems mapcamera’s RX1R III pre-tax price is $3650 in Japan. A travel to Japan almost pays itself…
I guess we should all thank Trump.
That's the equivalent of 3,100 euros, but here in Germany it costs 4,100 euros before tax. Just for your information.
p.37 #17 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
I received the camera and first impressions are pretty good. Build quality feels solid. I like the metallic feel of the lens more than the rest of the body, which feels like any of the recent Sony bodies with its texture.
The buttons don't provide a lot feedback (except for the AF-On button), especially when you are used to a Sony A7RV or newer.
The door for the ports on the left could be a bit better, it just doesn't feel like good quality. The On/Off switch is very good, no way to turn this camera on accidentally.
Overall when you pick the camera up there is no rattling or anything, just a solid block (thanks to no stabilization or any other moving parts like a tilt screen, probably a bad trade off).
Image quality and Autofocus are great. You can feel the lens elements moving when focusing, but it's still super fast and accurate for me. I think it's pretty silent but haven't checked if you could hear focusing in videos.
One thing that is a little annoying so far, as I haven't experienced it on any other cameras I used, maybe it's normal:
I noticed a slight shutter lag when using AF-C and any aperture other than F2. During focusing, the lens opens up to F/2, so when you take the shot, there is a short delay (it's not much but you notice it when you just shot in F/2 before) since it has to close the aperture down to my settings before taking the photo. I know some other cameras do that, but never noticed a delay.
Not sure if there is anything in the settings to change that, I couldn't find anything. In some of my other Sony cameras there is an Aperture Drive setting somewhere.
p.37 #18 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
That might bother me. Hmmm....
Kevin8 wrote:
One thing that is a little annoying so far, as I haven't experienced it on any other cameras I used, maybe it's normal:
I noticed a slight shutter lag when using AF-C and any aperture other than F2. During focusing, the lens opens up to F/2, so when you take the shot, there is a short delay (it's not much but you notice it when you just shot in F/2 before) since it has to close the aperture down to my settings before taking the photo. I know some other cameras do that, but never noticed a delay.
Not sure if there is anything in the settings to change that, I couldn't find anything. In some of my other Sony cameras there is an Aperture Drive setting somewhere....Show more →
p.37 #19 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
Kevin8 wrote:
One thing that is a little annoying so far, as I haven't experienced it on any other cameras I used, maybe it's normal:
I noticed a slight shutter lag when using AF-C and any aperture other than F2. During focusing, the lens opens up to F/2, so when you take the shot, there is a short delay (it's not much but you notice it when you just shot in F/2 before) since it has to close the aperture down to my settings before taking the photo. I know some other cameras do that, but never noticed a delay.
Not sure if there is anything in the settings to change that, I couldn't find anything. In some of my other Sony cameras there is an Aperture Drive setting somewhere....Show more →
It's normal with the RX1's.
Here is the explanation from the previous Rx1r RII 2016 DpReview, though I suspect the newer camera does not suffer from the "hunt and stutter problem" but is only slower with the slight delay when shooting at an F-stop other than F2 as you have found.
"Unlike many recent Sony cameras, the RX1R II opens up its aperture to its widest setting to initially acquire AF, allowing it to collect lots of light and take advantage of shallower depth-of-field to determine focus quickly. We did however notice that in AF-C, regardless of your AF area or mode, the camera will then stop the aperture back down again for the actual depth tracking of the subject. For obvious reasons, this isn't great. If you're shooting at, say, F8 for greater depth of field and counting on that to net you more in-focus 'hits,' the smaller aperture and resulting light starvation can cause the camera to hunt and stutter during continuous focus, and results in more 'misses." This contrasts with most other AF tracking systems, which leave the aperture blades completely open, only closing them down for actual image capture. So, counterintuitively, it's best to shoot moving subjects on the RX1R II with a little wider aperture than you might be used to.
p.37 #20 · Official: Sony RX1R III Digital Camera announced!
No hunting or stuttering. It does however keep the aperture at F2 during the entire tracking process, and not only to initially acquire AF. I would probably prefer it to stop down right after the initial focus, so the lens is already stopped down again when i take the shot.
In AF-S it doesn't open up to F2, it keeps the aperture as you set it, up to F5.6. So if you shoot in AF-S at F8, it will open up to F5.6, acquire focus and stop down to F8.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
It's normal with the RX1's.
Here is the explanation from the previous Rx1r RII 2016 DpReview, though I suspect the newer camera does not suffer from the "hunt and stutter problem" but is only slower with the slight delay when shooting at an F-stop other than F2 as you have found.
"Unlike many recent Sony cameras, the RX1R II opens up its aperture to its widest setting to initially acquire AF, allowing it to collect lots of light and take advantage of shallower depth-of-field to determine focus quickly. We did however notice that in AF-C, regardless of your AF area or mode, the camera will then stop the aperture back down again for the actual depth tracking of the subject. For obvious reasons, this isn't great. If you're shooting at, say, F8 for greater depth of field and counting on that to net you more in-focus 'hits,' the smaller aperture and resulting light starvation can cause the camera to hunt and stutter during continuous focus, and results in more 'misses." This contrasts with most other AF tracking systems, which leave the aperture blades completely open, only closing them down for actual image capture. So, counterintuitively, it's best to shoot moving subjects on the RX1R II with a little wider aperture than you might be used to.
