I decided to give M11 another run. I didn't like the magenta shift of the first M11 I got, but now there is option to send it to Leica to re-calibrate sensor colors. I was able to get a late production Nov 2024 M11. For some reason, I feel the colors out of this M11 looks more natural. It's not exactly the same as my M10R straight out of the camera, but I actually like the colors. Maybe every M11 has slightly different sensor color calibration or Leica changed the color calibration slightly with later production units. I tested with 35 SRR and 50 Lux. Below are 2 sets of pictures shot with 50 Lux one with M11 and other with M10R. Pictures are direct raw imports with Adobe Standard profile and no editing.
I want to see if others can pick which body is which. Do you still see clear magenta shift?
I recently got a M11P with a 5/25 build date, and I don't see the magenta shift that others have complained about. Not that it would matter if it did have that magenta shift since I create a temporary profile for images from a particular shoot where I've adjusted temperature, contrast, tonality, etc. to my liking.
Landscape set: The left image shows a magenta color bias.
Dog portrait: The right image shows a magenta color bias.
When you look closely, the difference between these images may appear subtle. However, compared to images from the M10-R, the magenta bias is much more noticeable.
Judging from the M11s I've had, Leica has been gradually removing the magenta bias from the M11 over the last year or year and a half of production. Could also be that Adobe and Capture One have tweaked their M11 profiles over time.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Landscape set: The left image shows a magenta color bias.
Dog portrait: The right image shows a magenta color bias.
When you look closely, the difference between these images may appear subtle. However, compared to images from the M10-R, the magenta bias is much more noticeable.
Both left images are from M10R. The difference is more noticeable in the dog shot, but both showed pleasant colors. My previous M11 unit doesn't look like that.
Both left images are from M10R. The difference is more noticeable in the dog shot, but both showed pleasant colors. My previous M11 unit doesn't look like that.
It would've been great to see the DNG files as well. My hope is that Leica has been quietly improving this through firmware updates, since the colors on the original M11 release, more than 3 years ago, looked heavily magenta and felt much more noticeable back then.
Both left images are from M10R. The difference is more noticeable in the dog shot, but both showed pleasant colors. My previous M11 unit doesn't look like that.
There are highly skilled and educated photographers participating in this thread that are getting which image is which wrong color wise.
This is a perfect example of why when discussing camera colors consensus is so hard to reach. We are each viewing images on different devices. The images are being presented by different software, the cameras are delivering the images using different firmware, the images are being shot with different lenses, in different light. We all see color differently, We all have different color preferences. Color is not an objective subject, pretty much entirely subjective and inconsistent.
Choosing a camera based on RAW color is an exercise in confirmation bias. There is no best/better camera. Only one that fits you (and your workflow) as an individual better than others do. However, it remains true that the colormost RAW images can be adjusted to your preferences.
Maybe better to spend our efforts focused on other areas...
Fred Miranda wrote:
It would've been great to see the DNG files as well. My hope is that Leica has been quietly improving this through firmware updates, since the colors on the original M11 release, more than 3 years ago, looked heavily magenta and felt much more noticeable back then.
Let me know if want to see the DNG. I think you can share across Adobe Cloud right? Be nice to see how you feel about the raw files.
If you are in So Cal, just go to any Leica store, and they can ship it to Leica NJ for you to recalibrate the sensor color. They will cover shipping. You can also do a regular CLA form, but you have to pay for shipping. The calibration should be free too.
gordec wrote:
Let me know if want to see the DNG. I think you can share across Adobe Cloud right? Be nice to see how you feel about the raw files.
If you could share it, that would be great. Sometimes the way an image is processed can affect the colors. Were these comparisons done at the exact same time? In my tests comparing the M10-R and M11, I noticed a very noticeable difference in tint, but that was a few years ago and I’m not sure if Leica has made any updates since then.
bcaslis wrote:
How were the M11 files processed? What camera profile is being used? Is it the M11 profile or an Adobe profile. What is the white balance set to?
All pictures shot at the same time. All auto white balance and Adobe Stanford profile. I take more tonight and share the DNGs with everyone. I figured I do this while I still have the M10R. Probably sell it soon, but I just love the brass body.
My experience with the M11 is that AWB is extremely sensitive to content shifts as well as lighting. My Nikon Z cameras have better AWB than the Leicas but in some circumstances I have seen Canon R cameras produce better AWB but it varies.
bcaslis wrote:
My experience with the M11 is that AWB is extremely sensitive to content shifts as well as lighting. My Nikon Z cameras have better AWB than the Leicas but in some circumstances I have seen Canon R cameras produce better AWB but it varies.
Brian, if you were to test white balance, would you put it on something other than auto? I always shot auto with my last M11, so I figured, I keep everything the same. I also took this M11 to Vegas over the weekend, and everything came out as pleasant as my M10R.
It depends on what you prefer. I think most of the complaints about magenta shift are due to AWB in different conditions and different individual perceptions. As long as you are happy with the results that is all that matters. I had another M11 I bought the end of 2022 and although I did not test against the M11 you have, I didn't really notice any AWB difference between them.
It would be interesting to measure the color of the light on a subject with a Light Color Meter. Then we could compare against what each camera measures the color temperature to be when set to AWB. Then we may be able to really understand which way each camera's AWB is biased. Or possibly the camera's AWB is accurate, and it is the camera's processing, or the editing software, or the viewing device which is responsible for color shifts.
Data Color has a interesting new meter they recently acquired.
