This is probably more of an aside, but I’m curious: Assuming exposing for identical histograms—which the pair of examples posted clearly don’t have—if setting the white balance to 5250k or so, does the green/magenta slider in Lightroom change betwixt the M11 and M10-R files?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Landscape set: The left image shows a magenta color bias.
Dog portrait: The right image shows a magenta color bias.
When you look closely, the difference between these images may appear subtle. However, compared to images from the M10-R, the magenta bias is much more noticeable.
I concur. I realize everyone's monitor may be slightly different in terms of calibration and that other factors mentioned might influence what each one of us sees in the two posted pairs of images, With that said, upon immediately seeing the OP's images prior to reading any of the responses in this thread, I too immediately saw (or perceived) the landscape image on the left and the dog image on the right (to a lesser extent) seemed to show a magenta color bias.
d.s. wrote:
This is probably more of an aside, but I’m curious: Assuming exposing for identical histograms—which the pair of examples posted clearly don’t have—if setting the white balance to 5250k or so, does the green/magenta slider in Lightroom change betwixt the M11 and M10-R files?
White light is 6500K ... (not to be confused with daylight temp) ... I use 6500K manual setting to evaluate color. Granted, that will reveal the color of the illuminating light temp bias, but it can also be a baseline for denoting how much the differences between them are.
As to the examples, I noted the difference in tonality (different BFA's), as well. The more contrasty images were the basis for my guess that they were the M10R. I also saw the color diff's, but I considered the tonality being an indicator, also.
RustyBug wrote:
White light is 6500K ... (not to be confused with daylight temp) ... I use 6500K manual setting to evaluate color. Granted, that will reveal the color of the illuminating light temp bias, but it can also be a baseline for denoting how much the differences between them are.
As to the examples, I noted the difference in tonality (different BFA's), as well. The more contrasty images were the basis for my guess that they were the M10R. I also saw the color diff's, but I considered the tonality being an indicator, also.
Interesting. I wouldn’t think to evaluate color that way, and (obviously, based on my post), would judge at the scene’s wb. Regardless, as you probably know, I’ve noticed imported files in Lightroom will show a green or magenta bias (via the slider) even when setting the kelvin manually. I’ve no idea why, but wondered if something of the sort might be factoring in.
d.s. wrote:
Interesting. I wouldn’t think to evaluate color that way, and (obviously, based on my post), would judge at the scene’s wb. Regardless, as you probably know, I’ve noticed imported files in Lightroom will show a green or magenta bias (via the slider) even when setting the kelvin manually. I’ve no idea why, but wondered if something of the sort might be factoring in.
I used to look at DXO website and compare sensors and the amount of R / G / B values that different sensors were applying to the BFA between different camera models. DXO doesn't do this for Leica M's ... but, given the tonal value differences, the density of the colors in the BFA are different between models. This is also in part how they achieve different DR response. My point is that having different densities of BFA colors ... MAY ... be part of the equation for the color shift, that is baked in to the BFA / Sensor. This is why I'd like to compare at 6500K with standard test chart values to see how it compares. Of course, folks will also use different color (i.e. 5500 / 5200 / 5000) source illumination and compare relative to that ... but, still ... agains standard values (i.e. color swatch, grey card, etc.) to see if there is actually an difference in the influence from the BFA differences.
Eyeballing non-standard scenes may reveal something, but you then also have to contend with the possibility that your camera / software WB is mismatched to your source lighting. There's also the matter of personal, subjective preference vs. technical.
RustyBug wrote:
I used to look at DXO website and compare sensors and the amount of R / G / B values that different sensors were applying to the BFA between different camera models. DXO doesn't do this for Leica M's ... but, given the tonal value differences, the density of the colors in the BFA are different between models. This is also in part how they achieve different DR response. My point is that having different densities of BFA colors ... MAY ... be part of the equation for the color shift, that is baked in to the BFA / Sensor. This is why I'd like to compare at 6500K with standard test chart values to see how it compares. Of course, folks will also use different color (i.e. 5500 / 5200 / 5000) source illumination and compare relative to that ... but, still ... agains standard values (i.e. color swatch, grey card, etc.) to see if there is actually an difference in the influence from the BFA differences.
Eyeballing non-standard scenes may reveal something, but you then also have to contend with the possibility that your camera / software WB is mismatched to your source lighting. There's also the matter of personal, subjective preference vs. technical....Show more →
Not an Adobe user but I'm pretty sure Adobe Standard is a profile unique to each camera. Adobe is basically useless for comparing anything but what hidden defaults are applied to each camera/lens.
The M11 profile is unlikely to ever produce identical results to the M10 profile just because of the fidelity of the profiles.
Nushi wrote:
Not an Adobe user but I'm pretty sure Adobe Standard is a profile unique to each camera. Adobe is basically useless for comparing anything but what hidden defaults are applied to each camera/lens.
The M11 profile is unlikely to ever produce identical results to the M10 profile just because of the fidelity of the profiles.
gordec wrote:
If any of you have time, take a look at the raw files posted in my OP comparing M10R and M11. Let me know how you feel.
I feel that you can easily get to the finished image you want from any of these images as a starting point. This kind of color question would be very low on my list when selecting a camera system. I would strongly suggest you go with the camera you most enjoy shooting.
1bwana1 wrote:
I feel that you can easily get to the finished image you want from any of these images as a starting point. This kind of color question would be very low on my list when selecting a camera system. I would strongly suggest you go with the camera you most enjoy shooting.
That is how I feel.. (well you did ask )
Come on Steve. What's the fun with photography if you are only taking pictures. FM is about obsessing over frivolity.
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