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 p.2 #17 · Reasons to LIKE the Leica SL system? | |
old-gregg wrote:
This myth really needs to die. Sony makes the sensor. Adobe makes the DCP profile for it. Those two components define the colors you see. Leica has absolutely nothing to do with the colors. In fact, it says right there in the top right corner in Lightroom: "Adobe color".
I'm certainly no technical expert. Apparently, you are. Can you explain why each point is incorrect? Will help a lot of people understand. Maybe in a new thread so this one is not going too much off-topic in the end? Would be interesting (at least to a certain extent).
AI answer to your statement.
“Yes, there **can be differences** in color rendering between a Leica camera and a Sony camera **even if they both use a Sony-made sensor**, and **even when using Adobe's color profiles in Lightroom**. The differences in RAW color can be subtle or significant, depending on a few technical factors.
Here’s a breakdown of why:
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### ✅ **1. Same sensor ≠ same image**
Just because Leica uses a Sony-manufactured sensor doesn’t mean the image from a Leica and a Sony camera will look the same. The **sensor is just one part** of the imaging pipeline.
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### ✅ **2. Raw data is influenced by camera internals**
The RAW file may be "raw", but it’s still **processed up to a point in-camera** before being written to the file. This includes:
* **Analog signal path**: Before the sensor signal is digitized, it goes through **analog circuitry**, such as amplifiers and ADCs (Analog-to-Digital Converters), which vary by manufacturer and design.
* **Micro-lens array and optical filter stack (OLPF)**: Leica and Sony may use **different micro-lenses or glass filters** (IR filter, anti-aliasing filter, UV cut), which affect how light is focused onto the sensor’s photodiodes.
* **Color filter array (CFA)**: Most sensors use a Bayer CFA, but **not all Bayer filters are equal**—the dyes used for the R/G/B filters can vary subtly in their spectral response. Leica could spec a slightly different CFA design or dyes than Sony does.
---
### ✅ **3. Demosaicing and camera calibration**
When converting RAW files (whether in-camera for JPEGs or later in Lightroom), the software has to:
* Interpret the CFA data
* Apply **white balance**
* Translate the raw sensor values into visible color (XYZ, Lab, or sRGB/AdobeRGB)
This involves **camera-specific calibration matrices** and **tone curves**, some of which are embedded in the RAW file’s metadata and used by Lightroom—even with Adobe Color profiles.
Adobe’s color profiles (like “Adobe Color”, “Adobe Portrait”, etc.) are **custom-made per camera model**. So, **a Leica Q3 and a Sony A7R V will have different Adobe Color profiles**, even though both come from Adobe. This preserves their respective “brand looks.”
---
### ✅ **4. Leica’s look is partly in the RAW**
While Leica’s **iconic color science** is most visible in their JPEG output (especially on M cameras), their **RAW files still reflect** a certain aesthetic due to:
* Unique CFA tuning
* Leica’s own sensor tuning and analog signal path
* Camera-specific calibration metadata embedded in the DNG (if DNG is used)
---
### ✅ **5. DNG vs. ARW**
Leica cameras typically use **DNG**, which is an open RAW format, while Sony uses **ARW**, a proprietary format. The DNG may offer **more consistent metadata handling** in third-party tools like Lightroom, and it sometimes makes color handling more “predictable.” But even here, Adobe applies **per-camera tuning**.
---
### 🧪 Summary (technical view)
| Component | Same between Leica & Sony? | Influences Color? |
| -------------------------------- | -------------------------- | ----------------- |
| Sensor Silicon | Maybe | ✔️ Somewhat |
| CFA Dye & Pattern | Possibly different | ✔️ Strongly |
| IR/AA filters | Probably different | ✔️ Strongly |
| Analog electronics | Different | ✔️ Strongly |
| Firmware (demosaic, calibration) | Different | ✔️ Strongly |
| RAW file metadata | Different | ✔️ Strongly |
| Adobe Profile | Per-camera | ✔️ Strongly |
---
### ✅ Conclusion
Even if Leica and Sony use the **same sensor silicon**, **RAW color can differ**—and often **does**—due to different **optical filters, analog signal paths, CFA dye response, and firmware calibration**. The **RAW color from Leica tends to have a different tonal and chromatic balance**, even before you apply any profile.
So yes: there is and can be a difference in RAW color.“
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