Steve Spencer wrote:
The problem with adding Nikon/Canon type focus assist is that you need a sensor with phase detect sites on the sensor and the M11 sensor doesn't have phase detect, so they would have had to use a different sensor for this camera. They obviously decided not to do that and I suspect they won't in the future either.
I further think that if you really like that type of focus assist, that you will also really like auto focus (AF). This camera is for a different type of shooter. One who is willing to manual focus and shoot more slowly. Despite the lack of focus assist the camera will still work very well with still or slow moving subjects. Focus assist might help with things moving a little faster, but once you are shooting such things, AF is a huge help and there is great AF for such subjects these days.
The camera will still be pretty unique in being this small and having such a large and likely very nice looking EVF, and of course you can use it with all those M lenses out there without any concerns whatsoever. I think it will find an audience. Not a huge audience, but I think it will sell reasonably well....Show more →
And yet Benj, a VERY experienced M shooter, says straight up that he can focus faster with range patch than the MF of the EV1.
His complaints about the old processor and start up time/lag is crazy to me for a luxury product when my $1000 Nikon turns on instantly.
Steve Spencer wrote:
This camera is for a different type of shooter. One who is willing to manual focus and shoot more slowly.
Steven, I hear what you're saying. But it doesn't land on a personal level. I own two film Ms and as my vision had been getting worse, I was hoping that this camera would be for me. I've been waiting for it, sold some equipment to beef up my budget. But now I can tell that the Nikon Zf with a Voigtlander is a better camera for "this type of a shooter".
Oct 23, 2025 at 11:56 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
RoamingScott wrote:
And yet Benj, a VERY experienced M shooter, says straight up that he can focus faster with range patch than the AF of the EV1.
His complaints about the old processor and start up time/lag is crazy to me for a luxury product when my $1000 Nikon turns on instantly.
I'm not sure what you mean here as the EV1 obviously does not have AF. Nor would I expect anyone to be able to focus faster using MF with the EV1 than using a rangefinder. With even a bit of practice the rangefinder focus is going to be faster. What I am saying is that this camera will still have a lot to offer if focus speed isn't a major concern and the advantage for those types of shooting is that it will work for lenses wider than 28mm and longer than 90mm.
Said another way, I think this camera will be quite useful for almost everything a Leica M is typically used for with one major exception--street photography. A Leica M is great for that type of shooting, IMO, and it can handle the fairly rapidly changing nature of that subject. I would struggle with this camera for that genre. That said, if it wasn't so extraordinarily expensive I would like it very much as a travel camera, especially if it had IBIS, as it ought to work great for architecture, most portraits, still life, and even semi macro close ups and it will do that in a small package which I would expect would be very easy and enjoyable to shoot. I won't even consider it until the price is at least half what it is being introduced as, but when the price drops on the used market I might well consider it. It will probably be ten years from now, but I might well consider it.
Steve Spencer wrote:
I won't even consider it until the price is at least half what it is being introduced as, but when the price drops on the used market I might well consider it. It will probably be ten years from now, but I might well consider it.
I will buy it when the price is around $2.5K. But not for more than this if the discussed specs remain true.
Steve Spencer wrote:
The problem with adding Nikon/Canon type focus assist is that you need a sensor with phase detect sites on the sensor and the M11 sensor doesn't have phase detect, so they would have had to use a different sensor for this camera. They obviously decided not to do that and I suspect they won't in the future either.
So why not use a PD capable sensor? It could have been as 'simple' as using the one from the a7RIV/V, which already exists. They've had a couple years or so since the M11 to figure this out.
I further think that if you really like that type of focus assist, that you will also really like auto focus (AF). This camera is for a different type of shooter. One who is willing to manual focus and shoot more slowly. Despite the lack of focus assist the camera will still work very well with still or slow moving subjects. Focus assist might help with things moving a little faster, but once you are shooting such things, AF is a huge help and there is great AF for such subjects these days.
I disagree. A good MF implementation with PD assist can make MF very fast (certainly often fast enough) and as accurate as AF (somewhat dependent on user reflexes, skill and coordination), while providing the photographer more control over focus. It would have made the EV1 usable for dynamic situations where focus peaking is too imprecise (especially with 60MP) and magnified view far too slow. It's basically Leica pre-deciding for users that this camera should primarily be used for 'considered' shooting. Yet the M has traditionally been a camera for spontaneity. I used the M frequently in highly dynamic situations and MF with the rangefinder was eminently usable. I now primarily use AF cameras in such situations and there are more than a handful of times when the very fast AF still messes up and I could have done the job just as well with a good MF implementation.
The camera will still be pretty unique in being this small and having such a large and likely very nice looking EVF, and of course you can use it with all those M lenses out there without any concerns whatsoever. I think it will find an audience. Not a huge audience, but I think it will sell reasonably well.
It will find an audience and once the initial release disappointment settles, it will probably end up being better accepted than the initial responses here suggest. Leica certainly knows their customers and apparently this is precisely what some requested, as much as it baffles/disappoints me.
LBJ2 wrote:
Outside of the rumors website and user wish lists and ever increasing expectations all over the threads/forums, this is what the original LSI conference asked for.
Wow, the LSI folks have really low expectations!
Leica can take my feature request now, based on today's release:
M12 with PD capable sensor that has focus confirmation integrated with the optical viewfinder. Usable e-shutter (at least 1/60 readout/scan speed). EFCS.
Steve Spencer wrote:
My guess is that it guesses at aperture and reports that in the viewfinder. If it is no better at that than the M10 or M11, it will be pretty useless.
But why? That was only needed because the older models wouldn't meter off the sensor.
The Leica I wanted ever since the M8 came out in 2006 was an M-sized, M-styled autofocus full frame camera with its own line of small autofocus lenses. Almost two decades later, the closest to this concept is the Q line, which has not great autofocus, and no interchangeable lenses. Fujifilm sort of tried, but not with full frame. Now the M EV1 is another step in that direction, adding an EVF to the M body. Eventually Leica will make an M-sized, M-styled autofocus full frame camera with its own line of small autofocus lenses, but it will be many years too late for me.
I have a question for those in this thread. How quickly can you focus an M9/10/11 etc. on a non-centered subject wide open with a fast prime such as a 35/50 f/1.4? How does this time compare to using an m-lens adapted to an SL/RF/ZF, etc. in the same scenario? For me, it's roughly about the same time, and given the fact that the megapixel count is so high, there isn't much forgiveness when I miss focus. This product is precisely what I want for my poor eyesight: a compact camera (no EVF hump) to use natively with M lenses and an EVF in low-light situations. There really isn't an alternative.
NJPhotographer wrote:
The Leica I wanted ever since the M8 came out in 2006 was an M-sized, M-styled autofocus full frame camera with its own line of small autofocus lenses. Almost two decades later, the closest to this concept is the Q line, which has not great autofocus, and no interchangeable lenses. Fujifilm sort of tried, but not with full frame. Now the M EV1 is another step in that direction, adding an EVF to the M body. Eventually Leica will make an M-sized, M-styled autofocus full frame camera with its own line of small autofocus lenses, but it will be many years too late for me....Show more →
As long as the SL series exist, this is not going to happen.
Hard to express how underwhelming this is. Providing nothing beyond basic peaking and magnified live view as focusing aids is a big F up and way inferior to an optical rangefinder.
I think this part from dpreviews preview sums it up quite well: „ Based on using the camera for a week, I can't see the point in paying 91% of the cost of a Leica rangefinder, only to get something that isn't a rangefinder and that's no more elegant to shoot with than any other mirrorless camera trying to manual focus.“
NJPhotographer wrote:
The Leica I wanted ever since the M8 came out in 2006 was an M-sized, M-styled autofocus full frame camera with its own line of small autofocus lenses. Almost two decades later, the closest to this concept is the Q line, which has not great autofocus, and no interchangeable lenses. Fujifilm sort of tried, but not with full frame. Now the M EV1 is another step in that direction, adding an EVF to the M body. Eventually Leica will make an M-sized, M-styled autofocus full frame camera with its own line of small autofocus lenses, but it will be many years too late for me....Show more →
Could not agree more... although personally I have given up all hope of ever seeing one...
Another plus for me today, watching a video of Cam Mackey gushing (dumb review) over this, I found out SquareHood now makes a hood for the 35 Lux V2. Includes 43mm filter thread inside - instant order. That plus the WB firmware update and not wanting to spend on a new camera, today was great for me
RoamingScott wrote:
His complaints about the old processor and start up time/lag is crazy to me for a luxury product when my $1000 Nikon turns on instantly.
Yes and it has been like this since the M8. I do not know what Leica's problem is but it is a big one. How could they not solve something like this in close to 20 years? They solved almost everything.
Well except testing obviously when one sees how "hit and miss" the M11 was.
I had one of the first M8 and in 2 to 3 days, I've discovered the banding and the IR problem, reported them to l-camera-forum.
When I had the M11, the freezing and sometimes massive over-exposure when shooting in a sequence happened to me during my first real session.
So what do their testers do? Looking at the camera but not shooting pictures?
crazeazn wrote:
I have a question for those in this thread. How quickly can you focus an M9/10/11 etc. on a non-centered subject wide open with a fast prime such as a 35/50 f/1.4? How does this time compare to using an m-lens adapted to an SL/RF/ZF, etc. in the same scenario? For me, it's roughly about the same time, and given the fact that the megapixel count is so high, there isn't much forgiveness when I miss focus. This product is precisely what I want for my poor eyesight: a compact camera (no EVF hump) to use natively with M lenses and an EVF in low-light situations. There really isn't an alternative....Show more →
I’m old, my eyesight isn’t bad, but my reaction time is diminished. I think that the best tool for those with reduced eyesight is a great autofocus system, such as what Sony offers. There are so many great small lenses, fast lenses and high optical quality lenses in the Sony lineup. Why bother with manual focus at all with poor eyesight. If you must go manual focus, try the Loxia series of lenses on an A7Rv. These are all great alternatives for those with poor eyesight.
retrofocus wrote:
As long as the SL series exist, this is not going to happen.
The SL series offers interchangeable AF lenses, with an option to use M lenses, but the SL bodies and their AF lenses are giants compared to the M series. Wouldn't it make sense to create an autofocus M-size & style camera, just like the Q/Q2/Q3, but with interchangeable AF lenses? (And I don't mean APS-C, like the TL and CL.)
Two decades ago, the argument was similar: "as long as the M series exist, this is not going to happen". The theory was that such a camera would kill off the M series, or that M users don't want such a camera. So far, the naysayers have been right: M-sized, M-styled autofocus full frame camera with its own line of small autofocus lenses doesn't exist. And they may be right for another two decades. But the tiny steps in that direction are evident, even if very slow.
