RoamingScott wrote:
Why would Sony USERS be worried about anything? Seems like they'd be too busy doing their jobs with a capable kit.
Well, there certainly seems to be many in this very thread. Even if some of them, like yourself, comment on video without even shooting any for some rather puzzling reason.
bernardl wrote:
Well, there certainly seems to be many in this very thread. Even if some of them, like yourself, comment on video without even shooting any for some rather puzzling reason.
Cheers,
Bernard
You seem extremely ill informed about what I do and do not do.
johnvanr wrote:
My exposure to video gear is the unused video part of my mirrorless cameras and the DJI action cam, so I’m thoroughly confused about the differences between the Sony, Canon and Nikon offerings and why I should care.
From what I understand, I can produce YouTube video with just about everything starting with my phone. Then I guess there’s a wedding etc. client category, which I don’t care about. And then there’s Netflix etc, with requirements that go beyond my simple understanding.
Where do these cameras fit?
I think if you want better than iPhone video quality without getting to large sized mirrorless cameras, these cameras fill a huge niche. The Zr addresses a lot of the gaps in other manufacturer's products like fast enough sensor, oversampled video, and image stabilization all in one package that recent offerings from Fuji, Sony, Panasonic, and Canon don't fully address.
I wanted a video oriented camera that's better than iPhone as a companion to my Leica M kit and went through a bunch of options but everything was too large and/or crippled that I gave up and just settled on a DJI Osmo Pocket 3.
The Zr is still big but seems to be able to deliver both on video and stills minus the EVF.
In my experience, micro-HDMI can fail even when securely clamped, even without being touched. There's a good reason why it's a non-starter for big productions. It's basically a ticking time-bomb.
One can tolerate it for personal projects, but step into a larger gig and you're jeopardizing everyone's work. Not a good look, professionally.
As I’ve written elsewhere there’s no compelling reason that Nikon needs to “answer” every manufacturer in their space. I can see Nikon making a high end studio camera that competes with the GFX. I could also comfortably imagine Nikon moving into the cinema space and glad to see they have. But I don’t see them competing with a space occupied by Sony, or the Fuji x100 line, or Leica, just because some people wish they would. Those spaces are well covered by a variety of cameras. It’s my opinion that Nikon has made their interests and preferences clear, and they have answers for landscape shooters/high res sensor shooters in both the Z7II and Z8. OTOH I’m not particularly invested in being “right” and if they release a camera in this world, so be it. I just find it odd and frustrating that a handful of people use every unrelated topic as an opportunity to try and redirect the conversation to their pet preferences, the fabled Z7III or Z90.
Wezre wrote:
Hilarious. Get outside of the small world that is FM and you will see that the demand is there. The A7C and A7CR have sold well. The users that are buying new cameras in higher volumes and who represent market opportunity for Nikon (younger photographers and content creators) want something smaller.
Yeah I keep forgetting how dumb the micro HDMI thing is, I'm pretty sure big productions just have tons of those damn things, but I do wish they didn't put that in this camera. I guess this is some sort of test bed intro camera and the version two will basically be what this camera should've been. Also the more I'm looking at Nikon's marketing for this it's not a big production house camera. This is basically them taking on the Blackmagic demographic I would think. Evection wrote:
In my experience, micro-HDMI can fail even when securely clamped, even without being touched. There's a good reason why it's a non-starter for big productions. It's basically a ticking time-bomb.
One can tolerate it for personal projects, but step into a larger gig and you're jeopardizing everyone's work. Not a good look, professionally.
JadedWriter wrote:
Yeah I keep forgetting how dumb the micro HDMI thing is, I'm pretty sure big productions just have tons of those damn things, but I do wish they didn't put that in this camera. I guess this is some sort of test bed intro camera and the version two will basically be what this camera should've been. Also the more I'm looking at Nikon's marketing for this it's not a big production house camera. This is basically them taking on the Blackmagic demographic I would think.
This clearly leaves room for a 4,000+ US$ camera based on Z9II technology that will bridge the gap btwn the ZR and the Kodomo X/newly announced V-Raptor XE.
tzhang4284 wrote:
I think if you want better than iPhone video quality without getting to large sized mirrorless cameras, these cameras fill a huge niche. The Zr addresses a lot of the gaps in other manufacturer's products like fast enough sensor, oversampled video, and image stabilization all in one package that recent offerings from Fuji, Sony, Panasonic, and Canon don't fully address.
I wanted a video oriented camera that's better than iPhone as a companion to my Leica M kit and went through a bunch of options but everything was too large and/or crippled that I gave up and just settled on a DJI Osmo Pocket 3.
The Zr is still big but seems to be able to deliver both on video and stills minus the EVF....Show more →
My thoughts exactly.
Red quality in a 2,200 US$ camera addresses the needs of the large majority of video creators. It’s a dream come true.
I'm thrilled by this. I have a BMPCC4K for fun and have been enjoying the short clips I've shot on n-log* with my ZF. Being able to try the red workflow without having to get a full cinema rig and just the way releases have been lately is something to look forward to.
Yup that makes sense. They most likely are just using this as an intro to build up their cinema lineup, which usually isn't built in a day. FX3 didn't just come out of thin air since Sony's cinema line has been morphing into that over the course of years not to mention several A7S cameras. I honestly think for a first go, this is fine, if you need more there are Z mount Red cameras that already exist if you have the budget for those. bernardl wrote:
This clearly leaves room for a 4,000+ US$ camera based on Z9II technology that will bridge the gap btwn the ZR and the Kodomo X.
JadedWriter wrote:
Yeah I keep forgetting how dumb the micro HDMI thing is, I'm pretty sure big productions just have tons of those damn things, but I do wish they didn't put that in this camera. I guess this is some sort of test bed intro camera and the version two will basically be what this camera should've been. Also the more I'm looking at Nikon's marketing for this it's not a big production house camera. This is basically them taking on the Blackmagic demographic I would think.
Sure, there'd probably be a spare cable, but at this point I'd have ruined a potentially good take and wasted expensive shooting time. And I'd be pretty sure they won't be hiring me again. This kind of work is about dependability just as much as it's about quality.
Personally, I'm even fine with shooting on a single card, CF doesn't tend to fail for no good reason. Micro-HDMI does, though. It's a deal-breaker.
You're probably right about the target demographic, though. The "cine camera in a hybrid body" was never truly ideal for larger productions. That being said, the ZR has even worse usability than its direct competition, while being technically better in terms of recording. Here's to hoping a mark II would clear the issues.
Evection wrote:
Sure, there'd probably be a spare cable, but at this point I'd have ruined a potentially good take and wasted expensive shooting time. And I'd be pretty sure they won't be hiring me again. This kind of work is about dependability just as much as it's about quality.
Personally, I'm even fine with shooting on a single card, CF doesn't tend to fail for no good reason. Micro-HDMI does, though. It's a deal-breaker.
You're probably right about the target demographic, though. The "cine camera in a hybrid body" was never truly ideal for larger productions. That being said, the ZR has even worse usability than its direct competition, while being technically better in terms of recording. Here's to hoping a mark II would clear the issues....Show more →
I am pretty sure most users won’t even use the HDMI port at all. The built-in screen is good enough not to.
They also won’t be using the jack connector. There will be options using the digital hot shoe.
So usability with the Smallrig cage will in fact be excellent.
My take is that there is no point in trying to replicate with the ZR the way an FX3 needs to be rigged. A ZR will be able to adresse many use cases with a more streamlined set up and deliver pretty comparable results.
Yeah I kinda think this camera started out as an FX Z30 to be honest and then they got some of the Red people to tinker around with it and supply some codecs. They'll get this out, use the feedback from this and then two years later a better camera will be out. I think this is mostly fine for what it is. If you're doing production house stuff you're probably in a different budget category any way. This is basically priced to hit independent shooters and maybe even some college students. Get them in and get them to grow out a system. Honestly this could be worse since I thought the camera was going to be hot garbage before I started watching videos for it. Evection wrote:
Sure, there'd probably be a spare cable, but at this point I'd have ruined a potentially good take and wasted expensive shooting time. And I'd be pretty sure they won't be hiring me again. This kind of work is about dependability just as much as it's about quality.
Personally, I'm even fine with shooting on a single card, CF doesn't tend to fail for no good reason. Micro-HDMI does, though. It's a deal-breaker.
You're probably right about the target demographic, though. The "cine camera in a hybrid body" was never truly ideal for larger productions. That being said, the ZR has even worse usability than its direct competition, while being technically better in terms of recording. Here's to hoping a mark II would clear the issues....Show more →
jlafferty wrote:
But Matti seems to disagree in his review. He even said this is the first camera that has him strongly considering dropping Sony 🤷🏻♂️
Very interesting camera, but I don't think it's a strong enough case to make an FX3 (or higher-tier) Sony user make a full switch. It's not there yet. However I would be very curious to try it with a Megadap + some of my E-mount lenses.
As stated, seems like more of a ZV-E1 or FX30 alternative than an "FX3 KILLER!!!!!".
Crazy that 5 years down the line, we're still here.
I am pretty sure most users won’t even use the HDMI port at all. The built-in screen is good enough not to.
They also won’t be using the jack connector. There will be options using the digital hot shoe.
So usability with the Smallrig cage will in fact be excellent.
My take is that there is no point in trying to replicate with the ZR the way an FX3 needs to be rigged. A ZR will be able to adresse many use cases with a more streamlined set up and deliver pretty comparable results.
Cheers,
Bernard
The bigger issue is that you aren't able to record redundantly to an external device like an Atomos Ninja, so there is zero redundant recording. Not to both slots (obviously) and not to an external recorder. So, once again, Nikon failed to provide what MANY have asked for since the Z9 came out. I know that no consumer camera is recording RAW to both slots, but at least H.265 4:2:2 would have been nice. Your entire hope is that CFExpress card doesn't fail or you lose everything. And sure, 99 out of 100, will say they never had a CF card failure but still. Anyhow, I guess I stand corrected as rumors are stating Nikon will release a firmware update to allow external SSD recording via USB-C. That pretty much solves it.
I thought I would have zero interest in this camera. But the specs, size, and price actually does make it tempting. Great job, Nikon! Long term, I expect either most of these specs to find their way into the z9II and z8II or a more "professional" 8k ZR to come out.
Realistically, I won't be picking one up since I barely find time to mess with video on my Z8, but if somehow I find the time for more video, I would definitely have to consider adding a ZR for dedicated video work over, say, a second Z8.
jlafferty wrote:
But Matti seems to disagree in his review. He even said this is the first camera that has him strongly considering dropping Sony 🤷🏻♂️
BS YouTuber hyperbole. He has a ton of cameras and manual glass. He’ll get one for clicks and all the silly “Zr vs Arri, Zr vs iPhone 17 pro” videos. Sony lenses work really well on the Z mount and this will make good content.
I’ll pick up one from the early adopters that dump them here to tinker with. But I haven’t thought for a second about replacing my a7sIII with the Zr.
Yesterday the C50 was the FX3 killer and now this. Pure comedy. Cool little camera though.
I find what they have done with the camera very interesting. It kind of creates a new category; cinema quality output with an unrigged camera and a cool brand association for 2k. Even the tiny mic recording to 32 bit internally is really nice, a 2 or 4 Tb card makes the card slot placement a non issue, the HDMI and mic ports are redundant. Content creators are going to love it but the Undones of this world will lose their mind over it.
