raul jarquin wrote:
I agree, I love the Loxia form factor and I wish they updated their 35 and 50 models, but before releasing any lenses for the E mount, they need to address the Loxia bugs people are reporting. Zeiss has been silent about a solution to the aperture and manual focus magnification issues. This lack of commitment to their previous e-mount platform gives me pause.
Thinking of what Zeiss has offered to E-mount, I think Loxia series has stood the test of time better than Batis. I have had 3 Batis lenses, but now I am down to Batis 135. No regrets for selling the 25 and 40, and the 135 is kind of unique (despite being designed as an ugly plastic tube). But in the same time I am sorry for selling Loxia 21 and 35. Loxias are different from what is otherwise offered to E-mount, being small size, well built, MF, aperture ring - and a the Zeiss style rendering. I liked Loxia. But what is Batis for... Most Batis lenses have been long surpassed by Sony and even Sigma.
Come on Zeiss!! You come out with a potentially nice lens line-up, but do not develop it or take care of the sofware issues taking place with new cameras? I think Zeiss also ignores what photo community really wishing for, the awful Batis line plastic-haptics being the best example of this. And where is our Loxia 28mm/2?
So many reasons not to trust in Zeiss... Still it is interesting to see what Otus line. Making Otus right is the last chance for Zeiss to get back into E-mount ecosystem.
DWOfPaul wrote: [...]Personally, I am more interested in seeing a mirrorless version of the ZF2 line. High quality lenses that are more reasonable in size, weight, and price.
chez wrote: The Batis line fits that need.
Jonas B wrote: For me the 40mm Batis could have been interesting. Weight? OK. Price? No. Size? No. That's one out of tree.
But, wht, let's see what happens. I'll keep breathing though.
chez wrote: I suppose everyone is different when it comes to weight, size and price…but like anything else, if you want light, small and great…you won’t get cheap.
Hey, if adding "greatness" we can also add ergonomics and then we have:
Weight? OK.
Price? No.
Size? No.
Great optically? Yes.
Ergonomics: No.
Two out of five. That can be OK for many but I certainly want better for a prime I carry and use all day.
tuomkok wrote:
[...]So many reasons not to trust in Zeiss...
Yes, It's sad and unfortunate. I recall the time around the magical year 2000 and I was happy with my (bulky) Zeiss C/Y 35/1.4.
The feeling back then and what I think of Zeiss today is very different. I still hope for something magical to happen but as already mentioned I don't believe in Zeiss and 35mm photography any more. There has been too many slip-ups and bad decisions. Add the lack of customer support and a premium price.
rscheffler wrote:
I suspect if they are Otus lenses (owls), they'll be at least f/1.4.
Agree can’t see any potential future Otus be anything else but f/1.4
PhilH wrote:
If this comes to pass, the goal was and should be:
21mm f/1.4 (Zeiss has a great history with quality 21mm primes)
28mm f/1.4 (needed IMO)
40mm f/1.4 (perhaps 38? probably would still be called a 40)
55mm f/1.4 (the actual best 50-ish Zeiss has made to date)
85mm f/1.4 (exceptional from the previous series)
100mm f/1.4 (I would prefer 115 or 125 personally)
….swap 100mm for something a smidge longer to give more reason to grab the 85mm and whatever that focal length would be.
Makes sense on the 85 and 100. When I completed my trinity of Otus I went 28-55-100. The 100 being newer and longer reach. The 85 was just too close to 100. The idea of a 21 and 40 rounds it out nicely.
Desmolicious wrote:
Were the Otus lenses the ones that the elements could easily be knocked out of spec if the lens took any kind of impact?
I recall reading a person saying they dropped their camera bag to the ground and the impact of hitting the ground caused the lens to need repair. They never said how hard the drop was. I’ve never had an issue but I don’t drop my camera bag to the ground.
mike reid wrote:
Zeiss sent me the 28 and 85 otus lenses in exchange for some sample images for their use. Still have them fortunately and they get adapted to a7r2 and GFX regularly
Envious. Enjoying your Otus images on the GFX. Adding a GFX is in my plans after testing one last year.
MARKFER wrote:
Zeiss is a flavor. Doesn't have to be the sharpest. It is simply a paint brush that paints a certain way. That is what makes Zeiss still credible. I suppose Zeiss badge is a status symbol if you want it to be.
So true, every lens no matter the brand has its own character. Each photographer can decide for themselves if they see a use of that brush in their kit. Having options on brushes is part of the excitement.
chez wrote:
I suppose everyone is different when it comes to weight, size and price…but like anything else, if you want light, small and great…you won’t get cheap.
Envious of the Sony 28-70 f2 in terms of weight. As a long time Canon shooter I often pair the RF 28-70,EF11-24 and EF 100-400(now 100-500) as a trinity or my Otus trinity and carrying the weight or size has never bothered me. Mind you when I opt for my Leica M kit or RF Voigtlander kits the camera bag is weightless. You are right won’t get cheap.
LBJ2 wrote:
I'm ready !
Me too. I think it will be Emount, RF and Z. It would be awesome if the also start a new line of Otus for GFX. Of course it would be a different lens than Emount, RF and Z though I don’t know if there would be a market for it..
There is no free lunch in lens design, or anything else. Small and light involve compromises that many or most are only to happy to put up with, but they are compromises nonetheless. That’s fine, but there isn’t a lot of evidence that Zeiss Otus lenses were somehow “left behind.”
Roll them out there! Always a market. A certain faction will swipe the plastic for these (and post them for sale 6 months later) but huge, expensive manual lenses….hard pass. All the best. Get out there and shoot some.
I’d some of the ZM lenses were pretty great. I have the 35/1.4 and 18/4 distagons. They’re magical. Anything zeiss does would be niche so I do think they can do something special. If they choose to or just slap a new mount on these and perhaps do a slight tweak for Sony’s thick cover glass. Whatever they do, I do hope they include L mount or M mount in the mix.
morpheus2891 wrote:
I’d some of the ZM lenses were pretty great. I have the 35/1.4 and 18/4 distagons. They’re magical. Anything zeiss does would be niche so I do think they can do something special. If they choose to or just slap a new mount on these and perhaps do a slight tweak for Sony’s thick cover glass. Whatever they do, I do hope they include L mount or M mount in the mix.
I've long thought the L-mount might give the excellent Zeiss Milvus DSLR lenses a new lease on life. I hadn't considered Zeiss Otus lenses for L-mount till this recent Zeiss teaser but I think the same applies. Both lenses could be a pretty good balancing act on SL cameras.
p.4 #10 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
zeitlos wrote:
You should not judge others based on yourself.
What does that mean, really? I wrote that I'm not happy with two out of five while it may be OK for other people. That's about me. Or do you mean I judge other peoples opinion on the different features of the Batis 40mm?
If that is it: Which parameter(s) do we disagree about?
p.4 #11 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
If they are OUTS with Mount change, I feel that is a DOA. If they are OTUS caliber design for Mirrorless flange distance @ double Voigtlander cost, yeh, I see it will work.
p.4 #12 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
zhangyue wrote:
If they are OUTS with Mount change, I feel that is a DOA. If they are OTUS caliber design for Mirrorless flange distance @ double Voigtlander cost, yeh, I see it will work.
Most likely and as you wrote, the latter.
I saw this comment posted in response to PetaPixel's "Zeiss Teases Its Long-Awaited Return to Photography" article:
"Zeiss hasn't exactly been idle the last 5 years. They produced 14 Zeiss Supreme Primes, the Zeiss Supreme Prime Radiance versions, the mirrorless-only Zeiss Nano Prime lenses (6 lenses) and three Supreme Prime Zooms.
23 high-end lenses for full frame or large format cinema to replace their s35 lenses. Meanwhile their many photography-centric lenses released in the back-half of last decade have aged just fine. I think Zeiss's replacement cycle is around a decade so it makes sense for them to revisit Otus (the 55mm was released in 2014)."–Christopher
Seems to me, Zeiss would have figured out a thing or two while designing/ developing these cinema and tiny mobile phone lenses/systems over the last five years. Including how to downsize their top-end Otus series lens form factor while maintaining the Otus lens formula aka a new Zeiss Otus "mirrorless" line.
p.4 #13 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
LBJ2 wrote:
Most likely and as you wrote, the latter.
I saw this comment posted in response to PetaPixel's "Zeiss Teases Its Long-Awaited Return to Photography" article:
"Zeiss hasn't exactly been idle the last 5 years. They produced 14 Zeiss Supreme Primes, the Zeiss Supreme Prime Radiance versions, the mirrorless-only Zeiss Nano Prime lenses (6 lenses) and three Supreme Prime Zooms.
23 high-end lenses for full frame or large format cinema to replace their s35 lenses. Meanwhile their many photography-centric lenses released in the back-half of last decade have aged just fine. I think Zeiss's replacement cycle is around a decade so it makes sense for them to revisit Otus (the 55mm was released in 2014)."–Christopher
Seems to me, Zeiss would have figured out a thing or two while designing/ developing these cinema and tiny mobile phone lenses/systems over the last five years. Including how to downsize their top-end Otus series lens form factor while maintaining the Otus lens formula aka a new Zeiss Otus "mirrorless" line. ...Show more →
This is good thinking and along the lines I've also thought myself. In the past Zeiss has used their design knowledge/experience for both photo and video lenses ie. sharing basic principles between the two. I'm looking hard at the Nano Primes as they could work as a framework for the new photo lenses (size, speed, rendering characteristics and price). Whatever they are delivering I hope they include whatever they have learned with the Supreme Primes (ie. 'gentle sharpness' concept).
And of course they will be MF lenses, no doubt about that. Zeiss has always had an MF high end lens family and this new release seems to be new mirroless version of it. Those who are dreaming of AF lenses are going to be disappointed, but it's not Zeiss's fault, it's just unrealistic expectations (new lenses for different mounts, E, Z and RF, and they would all have AF, that's a pretty long stretch)
p.4 #15 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Kalainen wrote:
This is good thinking and along the lines I've also thought myself. In the past Zeiss has used their design knowledge/experience for both photo and video lenses ie. sharing basic principles between the two. I'm looking hard at the Nano Primes as they could work as a framework for the new photo lenses (size, speed, rendering characteristics and price). Whatever they are delivering I hope they include whatever they have learned with the Supreme Primes (ie. 'gentle sharpness' concept).
(...manual focusing only...)
We'll see what Zeiss has planned for us shortly.
A framework for a new series of lenses for mirrorless based on what they have done with their cinema lenses seems unlikely. If the Nano primes are anything to go after we are talking big and heavy lenses (86mm filter and 1000-1500 gram) costing a lot of money (4K+ $/E/£).
Design ideas can of course be brought over from cinema line division to consumer lens designers. I guess they are different sections of Zeiss? Does anyone know, and if so, do they speak with each other?
p.4 #16 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
The best course of action is to just wait and see. The Sony targeting Nanos struggle to find the right niche, and it doesn't help that Zeiss got some bad feedback on the CP2/3 range. Only six Nanos and they won't cover PL.
'Zeiss would have figured out a thing or two', except that we see many reports of too much of the one aberration the cine folks won't like dealing with - CA, They are also heavy enough to deter fast moving action, The six of them adopt different spacing from their established lens ranges: 18-24-35-50-75-100. Very expensive too. All have huge form factors, fronts - 114mm (CP2) and 95mm (Nano). :
'Nano Primes suck. The whole selling point is they're clean and neutral, but they have color fringing. CVP's test shows the issues. I demoed a set (on a different continent) that had the same problem, so it's not a pre-production issue.'
'The midrange lenses (like Nano Primes) are meh and premium ones won't fit in the budget.'
'Personally, I thought the CA was beyond acceptable. Overall, I'd prefer the Nisi Athenas, they are less sharp (but still plenty sharp), but control CA much better, can be had in PL and a 5 lens set costs as much as a single NP' and 'the Zeiss NP still inherited the worst part of CP2/3s: the outrageous CA. And for a little more you can get the Tokina Vistas'
So much to choose from today in the 'light with character' space for vid/cine..
p.4 #17 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Jonas B wrote:
Design ideas can of course be brought over from cinema line division to consumer lens designers. I guess they are different sections of Zeiss? Does anyone know, and if so, do they speak with each other?
It's the same guys doing R&D for both in Oberkochen. For example, Christophe Casenave was in the lead for both Loxias and Supreme Primes..
It's like they have now done all these cinema lenses (huge amount in couple of years) and now they bring something for the photo lenses, that would be my guess..
p.4 #18 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Kalainen wrote:
It's the same guys doing R&D for both in Oberkochen. For example, Christophe Casenave was in the lead for both Loxias and Supreme Primes..
It's like they have now done all these cinema lenses (huge amount in couple of years) and now they bring something for the photo lenses, that would be my guess..
OK, that sounds good. Thank you.
I don't know what to think really about the excerpts from reviewers/users philip_pj posted above. At the same time as I really don't like CA I also don't see the point in listening to a random voice about another lens series at this point.
p.4 #19 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Jonas B wrote:
OK, that sounds good. Thank you.
I don't know what to think really about the excerpts from reviewers/users philip_pj posted above. At the same time as I really don't like CA I also don't see the point in listening to a random voice about another lens series at this point.
Yeah, no one knows what's coming - at least I know I don't, I'm just thinking out loud. Ie. let's not stuck with the Nano Primes. I was just thinking that once you replace the housing in Nano Primes they would not appear so big anymore (cine lenses often have bigger housing to standardize the between different focal lengths). I also believe the speed should be around f/1.4, otherwise it would look like downgrade from original Otus series. And lastly, I believe that they will be expensive. Original Otus was also, and Zeiss is not so interested competing at the mid budget range (Sony GM) as they also see their photo lenses creating brand visibility for the whole company 'we make it visible' as their camera division slogan goes - meaning consumer products also have a mission to make Zeiss brand visible to larger audience (thats why they dont chase the current trends and competition as well).
But like I said, no one knows what they are thinking nowadays. I'm just hoping they will surprise us somehow (in a positive way of course)..
...ZEISS also had access to much more modern, fully digitized design processes now, which allows them to fully design lenses on the computer before they put them into reality. The full, very insightful interview is embedded below, in case you want to know more about the work that went on behind the scenes to create these lenses...:
...While they are only E-mount now, the mount is user-interchangeable and ZEISS already announced that other mirrorless mounts will be available in the near future. Which ones exactly they haven’t announced yet, but here’s hoping it’s going to be L-mount, RF-mount, and Z-mount,[😉😉] all of which weren’t available for the Compact Primes, to my knowledge."
