p.5 #1 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
woof2025 wrote:
You guys need to get out more.
Dude, read the 1st page. It’s nothing but posters trying to help you out. You still haven’t responded to any of those posts. So what is your goal here? It seems you are not trying to find solution to your issue.
p.5 #2 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Disappointed on the first day in what way? Were you referring specifically to the "eyelash focus" issue or broadly speaking? What's strange about the eyelash "issue" (if it truly is one) is that it reminds me of the days of back focusing and front focusing where focus adjustment was needed. It seems as if whatever the camera's algorithm is leads it to not focus on the eye, but instead slightly front focused. This is not my direct experience, just based off what I've seen described online. But it doesn't seem like anything that can be fixed by "learning the AF system". It appears to be missing focus consistently for some users when using eye-AF across multiple focus modes. Where as with Sony and Canon I don't think I've seen any complaints about missing critical focus on the eye in years. I vaguely remember it being an issue with Sony many years ago when I was shooting adapted lenses. With Canon I have yet to experience any issues and have been happy with the focus performance. With Nikon (Z8) it's too soon to tell but I'd like to learn as much as I can about what is causing this "issue" for some users so I can avoid it if/when I pick up fast primes.
story_teller wrote:
Now that we have all the emotion out of this thread, here is some information that should help. Some of it may have already been mentioned, but I’m not going back through all the posts.
First, the Z8 is not like the D850 with respect to autofocus. It’s more complex and flexible with respect to AF. That flexibility provides a wide range of photography capability, but you need to understand what AF options to use and when. The Z8 is not a smartphone “point and shoot”.
Second, you need to understand when to use the various options so you can set the camera up to the type of photography at hand - portrait, sports, dance. fashion, etc.
Third, you need to practice quickly changing AF modes and AF features so you can adapt to the photography you want to shoot.
p.5 #8 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
duncangr wrote:
If only it was just a slight focus issue - unfortunately it's just symptomatic of the many issues that have resulted in Nikon loosing massive market share over the past few years.
Lots of sensitivity about that but generally only from a small group of vocal hobbyists, most of whom you can safely ignore. It's pretty easy to tell who they are because:
- they won't offer any useful advice, they will tell you that pro cameras don't just work straight out of the box, it takes years of study to figure out the intricacies of the system, point and shoot is no good just not enough control for a real pro ()
-they will accuse you of being a troll
- they will accuse you of being a Sony/Canon fan threatened by the superiority of the Nikon lenses (yeah I know right !!)
- they will tell you to pick the lens first as that's the only really import thing and as everyone knows Nikon lenses are superior
- they will tell you that Nikon have the best software development teams and keep improving their cameras by adding new features via firmware updates (v5 and still not fixed the AF but instead v5.1 adds some useless video feature - yeah I know anyone else would see the writing on the wall right!)
- they will tell you that next year Nikon will be releasing Z9m2 with a new hardware platform (or maybe just a firmware upgrade) with global shutter, infinite DR and AI subject detection and will become the dominant brand (as if that will somehow help take in focus images today !!)
Anyway good luck with the A7r5 - I loved the D850 and the A7r5 is the first camera I would consider a true upgrade to the D850 in terms of both image quality (resolution/DR) and usability (AF system). ...Show more →
“ they will accuse you of being a troll “
Your 2024 registration date is a permanent troll badge 😂 We all know you’ve been a member for years and were banned for trolling.
p.5 #9 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
One overarching thing I will say about AF on these Z cameras is this:
If you are shooting in the dark, you’re way better off using a fast lens like a 1.2,1.4, 1.8…
Using an F/4 or slower lens as it gets dark can yield inconsistent focusing in a way that my Canons/Sonys never did when the light dimmed.
I have had Z8, Z7II, Z6II, D810, D750 etc etc etc.
When my friend got the Z9 in the first year - he commented that he loved the camera, but the focus was just bad in the dark.
The accuracy of the focus systems in these Z cameras seems to be *particularly* sensitive to the amount of light hitting the sensor - more so than the other systems I use (Canon and Sony - which may take a little longer to focus when it gets dark, but when their focus indicator goes green, I can be sure it’s focused...*even when using slow lenses*)
p.5 #10 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Buckeye2604 wrote:
“ they will accuse you of being a troll “
Your 2024 registration date is a permanent troll badge 😂 We all know you’ve been a member for years and were banned for trolling.
Trolled so hard he had to change his name. What a select group he finds himself in. Restrained himself for a few weeks, but he’s back!
p.5 #11 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
That's interesting. I wonder what they're doing differently.
ronno wrote:
One overarching thing I will say about AF on these Z cameras is this:
If you are shooting in the dark, you’re way better off using a fast lens like a 1.2,1.4, 1.8…
Using an F/4 or slower lens as it gets dark can yield inconsistent focusing in a way that my Canons/Sonys never did when the light dimmed.
I have had Z8, Z7II, Z6II, D810, D750 etc etc etc.
When my friend got the Z9 in the first year - he commented that he loved the camera, but the focus was just bad in the dark.
The accuracy of the focus systems in these Z cameras seems to be *particularly* sensitive to the amount of light hitting the sensor - more so than the other systems I use (Canon and Sony - which may take a little longer to focus when it gets dark, but when their focus indicator goes green, I can be sure it’s focused...*even when using slow lenses*)...Show more →
p.5 #12 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
My limited (and probably wrong) understanding of this issue was that it happened with fast primes due to very shallow DOF, narrowly missing critical focus. Are you saying it's only an issue with slower lenses? Why do you think that is? That's less of an issue for my use since if I'm shooting portraits I'm usually shooting wide open with fast lenses. I had planned to pickup the 85mm f1.2 and/or Plena but chatter about this issue had made me a little concerned.
What about with lenses like the 70-200mm f2.8? Have you seen anyone report issues or experienced any consistent missed eye focus? I generally shoot wide area AF with eye-AF regardless of system. Should I do anything differently with Nikon (Z8) to consistently achieve sharp eyes?
RoamingScott wrote:
It’s not an issue with fast primes like I said very early in this stupid thread.
p.5 #13 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Nikon’s AF system is light hungry. The more light you give it, the better it is. The faster the lens, the better the AF, generally.
Now, if you’re shooting a Plena at MFD, you’re only going to get an eyelash in focus anyways, so you still have to be smart. That’s hard for some.
AlphaPhotography wrote:
My limited (and probably wrong) understanding of this issue was that it happened with fast primes due to very shallow DOF, narrowly missing critical focus. Are you saying it's only an issue with slower lenses? Why do you think that is? That's less of an issue for my use since if I'm shooting portraits I'm usually shooting wide open with fast lenses. I had planned to pickup the 85mm f1.2 and/or Plena but chatter about this issue had made me a little concerned.
What about with lenses like the 70-200mm f2.8? Have you seen anyone report issues or experienced any consistent missed eye focus? I generally shoot wide area AF with eye-AF regardless of system. Should I do anything differently with Nikon (Z8) to consistently achieve sharp eyes?
p.5 #14 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
I think it’s kind of widely known by now that Nikon doesn’t open the lens fully beyond 5.6 to acquire focus, and some people have designed a workaround for this with assigned buttons and settings.
If you’re having trouble getting focus I’d get a focus assist LED either off camera or on the hotshoe- there’s tiny cube lights that run maybe 2-3 hours on a charge.
For on-camera speedlight shooters there are green laser kits you can buy online that accomplish focus assist similar to red focus assist lights that event shooters relied on for years with SLRs. ML cameras don’t respond to red.
It’s also widely known that Nikon’s press materials promising something like -10EV focusing are based on using a 1.2 lens.
All of this said I haven’t encountered a situation where I’m finding the Z8 struggling, and I only have two relatively slow lenses as my kit: 24-120 f/4, and the 40/2. I shoot a lot with an OG Z6 and get an 80% hit rate. The Z8 is above 95% and in fact I find myself taking big chances on shots I wouldn’t get with an SLR and it delivers over and over, to my delight.
I think event shooters in dark nightclubs, concert shooters in weird lighting have reason to test the Z8 out, or need to outfit themselves with 1.2 lenses ideally… but conventional shoots like portrait/ecomm/fashion/beauty it’s a no brainer walk in the park to get critical focus.
AlphaPhotography wrote:
That's interesting. I wonder what they're doing differently.
p.5 #15 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
jlafferty wrote:
I think it’s kind of widely known by now that Nikon doesn’t open the lens fully beyond 5.6 to acquire focus, and some people have designed a workaround for this with assigned buttons and settings.
If you’re having trouble getting focus I’d get a focus assist LED either off camera or on the hotshoe- there’s tiny cube lights that run maybe 2-3 hours on a charge.
For on-camera speedlight shooters there are green laser kits you can buy online that accomplish focus assist similar to red focus assist lights that event shooters relied on for years with SLRs. ML cameras don’t respond to red.
It’s also widely known that Nikon’s press materials promising something like -10EV focusing are based on using a 1.2 lens.
All of this said I haven’t encountered a situation where I’m finding the Z8 struggling, and I only have two relatively slow lenses as my kit: 24-120 f/4, and the 40/2. I shoot a lot with an OG Z6 and get an 80% hit rate. The Z8 is above 95% and in fact I find myself taking big chances on shots I wouldn’t get with an SLR and it delivers over and over, to my delight.
I think event shooters in dark nightclubs, concert shooters in weird lighting have reason to test the Z8 out, or need to outfit themselves with 1.2 lenses ideally… but conventional shoots like portrait/ecomm/fashion/beauty it’s a no brainer walk in the park to get critical focus.
p.5 #16 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Your last sentence is the part I'm confused and concerned about. Why would the Plena only get an eyelash in focus at MFD? I understand what you're inferring, that the DOF is so thin that very little will be in focus. But are you saying it'll miss critical focus on the eye at close distances with fast lenses? I never had that issue with Sony (except for way back with adapted lenses) or with Canon. Whatever algorithm they use seems to know exactly where to nail focus regardless of the DOF, barring any drastic last second subject movement of course.
Is there something different going on with the Nikon AF system/algorithm causing it to miss focus on the eye more often?
RoamingScott wrote:
Nikon’s AF system is light hungry. The more light you give it, the better it is. The faster the lens, the better the AF, generally.
Now, if you’re shooting a Plena at MFD, you’re only going to get an eyelash in focus anyways, so you still have to be smart. That’s hard for some.
p.5 #17 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
That's the first I'm hearing about Nikon not opening the lens fully beyond f5.6 to acquire focus, but I never really looked into it either. That's interesting that they'd take that approach vs what Sony and Canon are doing. Do you have a source about this describing how the system operates?
jlafferty wrote:
I think it’s kind of widely known by now that Nikon doesn’t open the lens fully beyond 5.6 to acquire focus, and some people have designed a workaround for this with assigned buttons and settings.
If you’re having trouble getting focus I’d get a focus assist LED either off camera or on the hotshoe- there’s tiny cube lights that run maybe 2-3 hours on a charge.
For on-camera speedlight shooters there are green laser kits you can buy online that accomplish focus assist similar to red focus assist lights that event shooters relied on for years with SLRs. ML cameras don’t respond to red.
It’s also widely known that Nikon’s press materials promising something like -10EV focusing are based on using a 1.2 lens.
All of this said I haven’t encountered a situation where I’m finding the Z8 struggling, and I only have two relatively slow lenses as my kit: 24-120 f/4, and the 40/2. I shoot a lot with an OG Z6 and get an 80% hit rate. The Z8 is above 95% and in fact I find myself taking big chances on shots I wouldn’t get with an SLR and it delivers over and over, to my delight.
I think event shooters in dark nightclubs, concert shooters in weird lighting have reason to test the Z8 out, or need to outfit themselves with 1.2 lenses ideally… but conventional shoots like portrait/ecomm/fashion/beauty it’s a no brainer walk in the park to get critical focus.
p.5 #18 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
You don't need a source, lol. Take your camera out, take a pic at 5.6 and 11. Notice how it looks like it has the 5.6 DOF while composing and then compare to the final 11 pic.
It's how the Z cameras have operated since the beginning of the line.
p.5 #19 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
RoamingScott wrote:
You don't need a source, lol. Take your camera out, take a pic at 5.6 and 11. Notice how it looks like it has the 5.6 DOF while composing and then compare to the final 11 pic.
It's how the Z cameras have operated since the beginning of the line.
Don't even need to take a pic, just watch the iris stop down from wide open to f5.6 and stop there as you stop the lens down further while in LV mode.
I think there are a few cases where the lens will stop down to its minimum wide-open aperture instead of f5.6 if that is smaller than f5.6, but I've not tested that myself.
p.5 #20 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
@ AlphaPhotography This is further complicated by the fact that the camera will indicate that it has achieved focus in these conditions, but upon review it has not. It has in fact front or rear focused…
Re: “That's the first I'm hearing about Nikon not opening the lens fully beyond f5.6 to acquire focus, but I never really looked into it either. That's interesting that they'd take that approach vs what Sony and Canon are doing.”
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