I tested the Cosina binos against Swarovski which are my benchmark and they are quite good but there is some warm/cold fringing. Neither Leica or Swarovski have this. The build quality feels great but the focusing mechanism could be a little better.
ftllens wrote:
I tested the Cosina binos against Swarovski which are my benchmark and they are quite good but there is some warm/cold fringing. Neither Leica or Swarovski have this. The build quality feels great but the focusing mechanism could be a little better.
Being "not too far" from Swaro and Leica in an accomplishment when it comes to binoculars (I have NL Pure amongst many others).
Yes they are quite good. The Pure NLs and their new stabilized spotting scope was the benchmark. Swarovski had a small booth there and some nice distance Subject markers.
Hm, the more I look at it the more I'm warming to the idea of the 75mm APO-Skopar.
I have the 35mm f3.5 and the 50mm f2.2 Skopar and they're both fantastic. I also have the 90mm f2.8 in F-mount and like it a lot, esp. since it's amazingly compact (only 41mm long).
The 44mm length of the 75mm f2.8 is quite impressive - that's 10mm shorter than the already compact 75mm f1.9. And it's about 100g lighter too.. then again my main gripe with the 75mm f1.9 is not its weight or performance, but that it feels awkward to use on the M - I don't like its focus ring at all. The 75mm f2.8 would fix that.
M-P + 35mm f1.5 + 75mm f2.8 = 1,059g - seems like a pretty nice and lightweight combo. Only 970g with the 35mm f3.5 instead of the f1.5..
I went to CP+ today as well and tried 40/2 Septon for E-mount, Otus ML 35/1.4 (E), 90/4 APO-Lanthar & 75/2.8 APO-Skopar in the Cosina booth area. I'll post my samples and impressions later today, now heading home from Yokohama.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I went to CP+ today as well and tried 40/2 Septon for E-mount, Otus ML 35/1.4 (E), 90/4 APO-Lanthar & 75/2.8 APO-Skopar in the Cosina booth area. I'll post my samples and impressions later today, now heading home from Yokohama.
The first lens I tried at CP+ today was Septon 40/2 for E-mount. I really enjoyed the handling and the light weight of the lens on my A7CII, I think it's going to be a great one on the compact cameras like A7C series. At least today Cosina staff had no problem allowing the lenses to be tried out in the entire Cosina CP+ area although in the official CP+ announcement the trials were meant to be at the counter only. Perhaps they will be more restrictive during the weekend when CP+ typically gets more crowded.
Can't really judge the IQ based on limited sample shooting at the CP+ booth area but it looked fine to me based on initial impressions, sharp at the focused point and with pleasant bokeh rendering at least when shooting at close distance.
A small number of initial samples as there wasn't so much different stuff to shoot at the Cosina area. I exported these from A7CII RAW files through C1 Pro, just adjusting white balance and exposure a bit when it felt too warm due to the event space lights.
After I had started my trials with the lens, Cosina's marketing head Sato-san (who does all their product introductions in their YouTube videos) appeared and came to chat with me (he remembers me from past events). I expressed my appreciation for the new Septon release and re-iterated that we definitely need a 28mm pancake in similar size & style to be paired with it. I didn't get any clear indication on whether it's in the plans or not, but I hope it's in the plans already Definitely strong sales of the original Septon would also help with that.
I mentioned that the hood is a little strange and he called it a 不思議 (fushigi) hood, which translates to mysterious or to wonder (as in Alice in Wonderland). He mentioned that one of the reasons to make it like this was to allow use of same lens cap with or without the hood as they usually made small caps for the dome hood openings and people tend to lose those etc. I was wondering if LH-90IIS hood might also be perfectly usable on Septon since it looks exactly like LH-40N that was made for one of the old versions of Ultron 40./2. He said they haven't really confirmed whether it would cause any vignetting etc... We couldn't talk too long as he had to go talk with some other folks soon after and I continued my trials with the lens.
Some product shots (a few showing the lens on camera taken with smartphone, and a few taken from display case containing Septon lenses later with my A7CII & 90/4 APO-Lanthar and 75/2.8 APO-Skopar).
rscheffler wrote:
Great info! If anyone is there again, please be sure to note the suggested retail prices of the new lenses.
The 40/2. is JPY 85,000, which is ~ USD 550.
Cosina's official Japan price for 40/2 is 85000 but it's before tax (10%), and most stores usually sell for slightly lower than the official price, so it becomes 75420 yen including tax for 40/2 at Map Camera, Fujiya Camera and a few others, and 83800 including tax in shops like Yodobashi Camera, Bic Camera etc. Those latter ones offer store points against purchases to regular customers with their membership card and considering the points the prices are actually same as Map Camera etc. This one is already officially announced in other markets too and the local prices have been revealed. I think it's $699 in the U.S. and something like EUR 649 in various EU countries.
The pre-announced lenses like the new VMs don't have pricing info yet, it will only come to be known when they get officially announced.
The lens felt pretty much like Otus ML 50/1.4 that I have in terms of size, weight and handling. It could be acceptable size for me (just on the upper limit) but the Japan price is higher than ML 50/1.4 (261K vs. 340K yen at Map Camera including tax) which makes it a bit tricky.
I do want one to pair it with my 50/1.4 Otus ML but I won't have a budget for it in the near term. Possibly later in the year.
Zeiss was again present at CP+ this year as well, I had asked about it from Sato-san and he told me that Petra from Zeiss (Head of Category Management Imaging) was around but she was in some meetings. Last year I had talked with her at CP+ as we had a lot of common background (like being from Finland, having graduated from same University and having worked for Nokia in the past) and there was interesting photography / lens stuff to talk about as well While I was trying out the Otus she appeared and we managed to talk plenty today as well. I didn't get insights regarding what's planned next for the Otus line but it was otherwise very interesting.
burningheart wrote:
I hope you took the opportunity to give her a hint as to what you would like to see next.
I mentioned that something in the wider end could be interesting, i.e. 28/1.4 would be always my top pick but since it's quite close to 35/1.4, a 25/1.4 might also be a reasonable option.
3rd lens I tried out was the CV 90/4 APO-Lanthar VM. I had forgotten to bring along my M-E mount adapters, but I could borrow one from Cosina so it was no problem. I quite liked the 90/4, the sharp focus area was surprisingly slim at all times (probably partly due to the APO design) and I think this lens was the easiest to shoot with in Cosina's CP+ area in terms of finding some interesting compositions (including close range shots with longer focal length) and the lens worked quite nicely for product shots.
The lens is pretty small and light but it extends quite a bit at closest focus distance. In terms of size and handling (also thanks to focus tab) I liked the 75/2.8 more but in terms of output I found the 90/4 to be more interesting. I liked the small dome type hoods that these lenses had as well.
These were exported from RAW via C1 Pro again, and I didn't make any modifications. Since I used an A7CII to adapt these, there is a possibility that the lens didn't work 100% optimally due to sensor stack differences but I think it's probably less of a problem with this lens (although Fred found 90/2 APO-Ultron to suffer in the extreme corners on Sony).
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I didn't get insights regarding what's planned next for the Otus line but it was otherwise very interesting.
burningheart wrote:
I hope you took the opportunity to give her a hint as to what you would like to see next.
I'm guessing this market is now such a minuscule area of importance for Zeiss that I would be surprised to see more than a 21 or 25mm. Maybe something a bit longer than 85mm. Their reluctance to develop more AF lenses also isn't helping (this also could be an issue for their manufacturing partner, Cosina, due to their apparent reluctance to venture into AF lenses).
It seems like the ZM line is being left to just exist and fill whatever niches potential buyers might find. If Zeiss was to actually do something in the ZM space, it feels to me that it would be, price-wise, in the gap between Leica at the top and Voigtlander below. This is the space I've suggested Cosina could address with 'halo' Voigtlander lenses. They could just as easily be Zeiss branded. But they'd have to provide some quantifiable performance benefit to occupy this space.
The massive elephant in the room is what all the Chinese brands will develop in the near future. Maybe it's now just too niche for Zeiss? That said, they did develop and release the ZX1... !
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Cosina's official Japan price for 40/2 is 85000 but it's before tax (10%), and most stores usually sell for slightly lower than the official price, so it becomes 75420 yen including tax for 40/2 at Map Camera, Fujiya Camera and a few others, and 83800 including tax in shops like Yodobashi Camera, Bic Camera etc. Those latter ones offer store points against purchases to regular customers with their membership card and considering the points the prices are actually same as Map Camera etc.
Thanks for explaining this. I was wondering why the 'big' shops like Yodobashi tend to be more expensive. For a tourist like me, I'm assuming there is no benefit to the points and it's better to go for lower priced options.
The handling was really nice with this one, with the focusing tab and overall focusing feel. I have a lot of 75mm lenses though, including CV 75/1.9 Ultron VM which can focus to 0.5m and is overall very nice, so I'm not considering to buy this one.
From the 2 VMs, I might consider the 90/4 as I was impressed with the IQ, although I don't shoot 90mm that often and I already have Sigma 90/2.8 DG DN (E-mount) that is also pretty compact and light and can also focus close (0.5m).
I asked one member of Cosina staff at the counter about whether they had any plans to bring the 90/4 to mirrorless but they said there were no plans so far.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
3rd lens I tried out was the CV 90/4 APO-Lanthar VM. I had forgotten to bring along my M-E mount adapters, but I could borrow one from Cosina so it was no problem. I quite liked the 90/4, the sharp focus area was surprisingly slim at all times (probably partly due to the APO design) and I think this lens was the easiest to shoot with in Cosina's CP+ area in terms of finding some interesting compositions (including close range shots with longer focal length) and the lens worked quite nicely for product shots.
The lens is pretty small and light but it extends quite a bit at closest focus distance. In terms of size and handling (also thanks to focus tab) I liked the 75/2.8 more but in terms of output I found the 90/4 to be more interesting. I liked the small dome type hoods that these lenses had as well.
These were exported from RAW via C1 Pro again, and I didn't make any modifications. Since I used an A7CII to adapt these, there is a possibility that the lens didn't work 100% optimally due to sensor stack differences but I think it's probably less of a problem with this lens (although Fred found 90/2 APO-Ultron to suffer in the extreme corners on Sony).
Thanks for these Juha! Your images are very informative, as always!
This lens looks to be very sharp and consistent across the frame with no discernible lateral CA and extremely low LoCA/fringing. You can see very slight bokeh color fringing in high contrast transitions behind and in front of the plane of focus, but really so far only in extreme situations. 'Regular' bokeh looks to be free of such fringing. It's also promising to see that sharpness along the edges on a Sony sensor doesn't appear to be significantly affected. Of course we won't know until someone like Fred does a thorough comparison, but based on these images, it appears there may be very little performance consequence adapted to non-Leica M sensors.
rscheffler wrote:
Thanks for these Juha! Your images are very informative, as always!
This lens looks to be very sharp and consistent across the frame with no discernible lateral CA and extremely low LoCA/fringing. You can see very slight bokeh color fringing in high contrast transitions behind and in front of the plane of focus, but really so far only in extreme situations. 'Regular' bokeh looks to be free of such fringing. It's also promising to see that sharpness along the edges on a Sony sensor doesn't appear to be significantly affected. Of course we won't know until someone like Fred does a thorough comparison, but based on these images, it appears there may be very little performance consequence adapted to non-Leica M sensors....Show more →
Having examined the full-resolution images (thanks for posting!) I agree with most of these conclusions, although I would characterize the amount of LoCA/fringing as "low" rather than "extremely low". Some of their other APO lenses do better in this regard. I would also add that the bokeh looks very smooth with just a touch of "character". That makes me very happy, although others may be disappointed. Overall, these initial images have heightened my interest in getting this lens.
Definitely strong sales of the original Septon would also help with that.
