fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Film Is Not Dead Forum | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3       end
  

Archive 2024 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?

  
 
Tina Kino
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?





Hello, fellow film shooters!



Looking back at what was going in 2024 in regards to analogue photography, the first things that come to my mind are:

- further rising prices of film (obviously)

- Fuji sadly no longer producing any color negative film (but a new version of the Acros at least, plus Provia / Velvia)

- the two new film cameras (Pentax 17, and the Mint / Rollei AF) coming out (and being a huge success)

- quite a few new options in regards to "scanning" with a DSLR & macro lens



Wondering how things will develop in the coming year.. what do you reckon?

In general, I think film photography is having a renaissance similar to vinyl - alas, while there's lots of manufactures offering new turntables in recent years the same is not (yet) happening in the camera world..
I do hope Pentax will also be able to bring a higher-quality 35mm camera to the market as well (while what I've seen from the 17 looks pretty damn good actually it's still only half-frame after all..) - initially they were talking about three new cameras, so here's hoping.
Would definitely be amazing to have some more options to buy a new film camera, with warranty and all, in 2025 - apart from the two aforementioned compacts - and the 6K Leica's..

I have no idea what's going to happen in regards to emulsions.
Would love to have the Superia flavours back, and Pro 400H.. not getting my hopes up too much though, to be honest.

The new scanning options are being embraced by the community it seems, hoping things will further improve there, in regards to easier converting of the negs in future and getting better colors. That's still a tough one to swallow where I live at least, the price for high-quality high-res scans..



So what do you guys think?




Dec 16, 2024 at 06:02 AM
madNbad
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


In the 1980’s Kodak introduced a new line of T-grain films and a some long time favorites were dropped from production. I loved Plus X and really loved Panatomic X but the then new TMax 100 offered the fine grain of Panatomic X at Plus X speed. The film industry is still trying to find its footing after barely surviving the digital revolution. The days of big Kodak displays are long gone. Film processing has became more expensive, reliable shops are fewer and many cities don’t have one.

It’s not all doom and gloom. Kodak and Fuji are working together to provide a line of affordable color Negative films. Even Ilford has introduced a color stock. Smaller European manufacturers are ramping up production and movie films are being repurposed.

We’re starting to see a new era of stability from the film manufacturers. The prices are starting to fall and there are plenty of places online to find bargains. The film community is much smaller than it once was but it’s users are dedicated.



Dec 16, 2024 at 11:43 AM
bjhurley
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


One of the things I like about film is its unpredictability. This unpredictability extends to the future of film and film cameras. If I had to guess about the year ahead, though...

1. New cameras: Apart from Pentax and a few smaller companies that make new film cameras (e.g., Mint, Lomography), I'd be surprised if we see many new film cameras coming on the market. It's hard for new cameras to compete with the thousands of old film cameras available today, many in reasonably good working order. You could argue that the cost of a CLA brings old cameras into a similar cost range as new ones, but it's still a hard sell when in some cases you can buy 10 or 20 good-quality old film cameras for the price of a new one.

2. New films: I do think we'll see some new emulsions but that's also a big, expensive undertaking. It seems Kodak wants to reserve its cinema films for cine users now and is stopping sales to respoolers, although the respoolers are figuring out workarounds. But I think there's demand for new films, even if only for the sake of variety. Trying out different films is one of the big pleasures of film photography.

3. Fashion: It's still seen as cool to be shooting film, especially among people in their teens and 20s, but like all fads this could change on a whim especially when it becomes so commonplace that nobody pays attention anymore. Those of us who shoot film for other reasons benefit from the demand, which has helped sustain businesses that might otherwise have died out and helped create new options. But if the fashion dies out we'll be be outliers again.



Dec 16, 2024 at 12:04 PM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


1. Continuation of rising film prices. Other smaller film manufacturers will broaden the portfolio but also pricing their films high. Film photography is on the way to become some kind of luxury good with 35 mm film prices going above $10-12 per roll with 36 frames.

2. Levelling out of higher priced film cameras like rangefinder M. At this point there will be less demand than few years ago when more were jumping the film band wagon. Higher film prices will also put a damper of the demand we have seen.

3. Increased offerings of alternatives to B&W film photography with monochrome cameras. This has already started, but I expect more manufacturers doing alike. It seems monochrome cameras have become more attractive in recent times along with rising prices for B&W films. I also expect more options for more affordable digital backs for medium format cameras like Hasselblad and Mamiya.

Overall, I believe we have reached the maximum of the film resurgence. Interest will flatten at this point or slightly start to decrease again.



Dec 16, 2024 at 12:55 PM
madNbad
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


when I was picking up a roll of processed film, I asked who was bringing in? Boomers and Zoomers.


Dec 16, 2024 at 01:19 PM
Tina Kino
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


bjhurley wrote:
One of the things I like about film is its unpredictability. This unpredictability extends to the future of film and film cameras. If I had to guess about the year ahead, though...

1. New cameras: Apart from Pentax and a few smaller companies that make new film cameras (e.g., Mint, Lomography), I'd be surprised if we see many new film cameras coming on the market. It's hard for new cameras to compete with the thousands of old film cameras available today, many in reasonably good working order. You could argue that the cost of a CLA brings old cameras into a
...Show more


1. New cameras -
frankly I see this differently - it's getting harder obviously, but yes I can still find a nice SLR body in good condition (at least cosmetically) for about 80 to 150 EUR / USD where I am.
Yet this year three suddenly died on me (shutter behaving erratically on all three - with two of them it's most likely a dead capacitator between meter and battery - not a hard thing to fix per se, but hard to get to with these models, so at least 120 EUR per camera, maybe more, I've been told - what's wrong with the third body I don't even know).
This has cost me a lot of time / nerves, not to mention ruined shots.
So I'd actually rather spend a larger sum on a brand new camera with warranty than buy another 40 year old one that might act up the following week.
The Pentax 17 is not for me, neither is the Rollei 35 AF, so the only option right now is a 6K Leica - I wish there was another, say, 1-2K option. Depending on mount / features I'd probably buy it.

2. New Films -
There's a lot happening indeed - and while I don't care much for the cine stuff (don't like the halo thing, it's often expensive, or ECN2 process - which only very few labs do around here, not cheap..) I do agree with you, variety is a good thing, and I'm curious what we'll see next year. I forgot Kodak brought back Ektachrome! Haven't tried that yet (super expensive here, but will get a roll soon)..

3. Fashion -
I agree the "serious shooters" benefit from the youngsters that probably just do it because it's trendy.
Although.. at least over here, when I look at the people in the waiting line at my local lab, it's not so much teens and people in their 20's, but rather hipsters in their 30's, mint Minolta CLE's or Contax's around their neck.. probably the same logic applies though, they'll maybe find something else to do in a while? We'll see..



Dec 16, 2024 at 02:21 PM
bjhurley
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


Tina Kino wrote:
1. New cameras -
frankly I see this differently


Yes, I definitely see that point: same thing happened with my Minolta XD. I foolishly gave away my Minolta SR-T to a young photographer who is getting started in film, but in fact that camera, being all mechanical (and which I had CLA'd for quite a bit of money) is the one I should have kept. My solution was to get a Nikon FM3a, which is far younger than most of the other SLRs out there; it was expensive but I was willing to pay for that comparative peace of mind. It's an amazing camera.

Tina Kino wrote:
2. New Films -
There's a lot happening indeed - and while I don't care much for the cine stuff (don't like the halo thing, it's often expensive, or ECN2 process - which only very few labs do around here, not cheap..) I do agree with you, variety is a good thing, and I'm curious what we'll see next year. I forgot Kodak brought back Ektachrome! Haven't tried that yet (super expensive here, but will get a roll soon)..


The halation is actually only on the remjet-removed cine films like Cinestill, not the actual Vision 3 stock (which still has the remjet layer to reduce halation). I've shot some Vision 3 and liked it, but not enough to make me want to buy more, especially since ECN-2 processing is more expensive and I have to wait a lot longer for my lab to do it. As for Ektachrome, I'm not sure if you can get Flic Film in Europe but they make the cheapest Ektachrome out there: it's respooled from the cine version, which is the same film just different shaped sprocket holes. It's cheaper than Ektar or any of the Portras where I live, and only about $1 more per roll than Kodak ProImage 100.




Dec 16, 2024 at 02:40 PM
Tina Kino
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


madNbad wrote:
We’re starting to see a new era of stability from the film manufacturers. The prices are starting to fall and there are plenty of places online to find bargains.


Oh yea? Over here at least a lot of stuff was sold out oftentimes (speaking about 35mm color negative), so the only stability was in the prices: constantly high : )

While we're at it - how much does film cost where you are?
Some prices from Germany: https://tinyurl.com/s3r94bya



Dec 16, 2024 at 02:41 PM
madNbad
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


If you decide to spend the money for a new MP, you will have a camera that will last for years. You could spend the time and effort chasing increasing older film bodies that will need service or start with a new Leica and enjoy using film. The nice thing about the M cameras is the variety of lenses available. A Voigtlander 35 Nokton Classic is a good start and it's easy to upgrade to a better lens.

The decision is, will you be happy with a single camera?



Dec 16, 2024 at 02:57 PM
madNbad
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


Tina Kino wrote:
Oh yea? Over here at least a lot of stuff was sold out oftentimes (speaking about 35mm color negative), so the only stability was in the prices: constantly high : )

While we're at it - how much does film cost where you are?
Some prices from Germany: https://tinyurl.com/s3r94bya


We were in Paris in October and I bought eight rolls of TMax 100. The price was about $15.20 usd per roll which is about two dollars a roll more than than in the US.



Dec 16, 2024 at 03:05 PM
Tina Kino
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


bjhurley wrote:
The halation is actually only on the remjet-removed cine films like Cinestill, not the actual Vision 3 stock (which still has the remjet layer to reduce halation).
(...) As for Ektachrome, I'm not sure if you can get Flic Film in Europe but they make the cheapest Ektachrome out there: it's respooled from the cine version, which is the same film just different shaped sprocket holes. It's cheaper than Ektar or any of the Portras where I live, and only about $1 more per roll than Kodak ProImage 100.


My phrasing could have been better - what I meant was the cine stuff is usually either remjet-removed halo-style, or ECN2 processing - both of which I don't enjoy : )

Thanks for the headsup regarding Flic Film!
A quick search lead to this - which is not not exactly what you were talking about (says it's "respooled KODAK Aerocolor IV color negative film") but actually that looks kinda interesting, will probably give it a try!


Edited on Dec 16, 2024 at 03:19 PM · View previous versions



Dec 16, 2024 at 03:10 PM
bjhurley
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


Tina Kino wrote:
Thanks for the headsup regarding Flic Film!
A quick search lead to this - which is not not exactly what you was talking about (says it's "respooled KODAK Aerocolor IV color negative film") but actually that looks kinda interesting, will probably give it a try!


That's one of their films, but the one I was referring to is called Chrome 100. About halfway down the page here:

https://flicfilm.ca/film-and-paper/

It's respooled Ektachrome slide film, the cinema version of that film, which is exactly the same as regular Ektachrome except the sprocket holes are shaped differently (they will still engage properly on regular 35mm film cameras).



Dec 16, 2024 at 03:15 PM
Tina Kino
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


madNbad wrote:
If you decide to spend the money for a new MP, you will have a camera that will last for years. You could spend the time and effort chasing increasing older film bodies that will need service or start with a new Leica and enjoy using film. The nice thing about the M cameras is the variety of lenses available. A Voigtlander 35 Nokton Classic is a good start and it's easy to upgrade to a better lens.

The decision is, will you be happy with a single camera?


Yes.
Would love a rather small and light EDC kind of setup that offers great quality, and I'm fine with just a 35mm, perhaps a 75 for the five times a year I want to shoot some portraits.

So yea, basically a Leica M.. it's just the price is outrageous, really (especially considering how their QC and customer service has gone downhill in recent years), I hate the finicky little shutter speed dials of the M6 / MP, also I'm old, and really do want aperture-priority AE now (wish they had revived the M7 instead of the M6 but such is life : )



Dec 16, 2024 at 03:45 PM
Tina Kino
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


retrofocus wrote:
1. Continuation of rising film prices. Other smaller film manufacturers will broaden the portfolio but also pricing their films high. Film photography is on the way to become some kind of luxury good with 35 mm film prices going above $10-12 per roll with 36 frames.

2. Levelling out of higher priced film cameras like rangefinder M. At this point there will be less demand than few years ago when more were jumping the film band wagon. Higher film prices will also put a damper of the demand we have seen.

3. Increased offerings of alternatives to B&W film photography
...Show more

1. Continuation of rising film prices -
Could be, but not by much more I think. Judging by what I see at my small local lab they sell way more Kodak Gold and ProImage, because a lot of people are not paying 17-20 for Portra any more (doesn't make sense to me at all if you break it down to cost per frame, but that's what's happening it seems, at least at this place).

2. Levelling out of higher priced film cameras like rangefinder M.
I would love to see that - very much hope you're right : )

3. Increased offerings of alternatives to B&W film photography with monochrome cameras.
I got the impression lately (when browsing photo sharing sites, Instagram, etc.) that people are shooting more (film) b&w in general. Maybe because it's cheaper, or maybe because it's even more of an "authentic" thing, that they can even develop at home.. something that's decidedly different to the usual (digital / smartphone) imagery that people are overrun by nowadays?


Overall, I believe we have reached the maximum of the film resurgence. Interest will flatten at this point or slightly start to decrease again.

I do hope the peak hasn't been reached yet. Seing how the newly released cameras this year have basically been sold out immediately I think people are still hungry.. at least for one more year? We'll see.. : )



Dec 16, 2024 at 04:18 PM
bjhurley
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


Tina Kino wrote:
I do hope the peak hasn't been reached yet. Seing how the newly released cameras this year have basically been sold out immediately I think people are still hungry.. at least for one more year? We'll see.. : )


I don't think we're even close to the peak. AI and other digital technologies seem to be driving a counter-surge of interest in all things analog. In my city, we have a store that specializes in old-fashioned paper agendas (the notebooks that many of us used to use to keep track of our daily schedules before smartphones came along) and typewriters. It's always crowded when I walk by and look in the window.



Dec 16, 2024 at 04:29 PM
Geoff D F
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


I expect the film market to continue to grow in line with or maybe a bit faster than the overall photography market.

I agree with BJ that two decades of digital is driving some people to want a different look to their photos as well as a different experience and film gives that. It is what drove me to get back into shooting film, though I will happily still shoot digital too.

Film may be more expensive than it was in the past, but I don't think it is that much more expensive in real terms than it was in the film era. I vaguely recall a roll of consumer film costing may 30-40 per cent more than a burger, fries and coke from McDonalds and that is probably about where it is priced today.

The biggest change is the limited number of places that process film and you can't get is done in one hour. But the number of places processing film is growing where I live.

As for film cameras, if the Pentax 17 is truly a success as is claimed, it shouldn't be too hard for them to apply what they have learned to make a 35mm P&S camera and SLR, with AF and either crank wind or motor wind.



Dec 16, 2024 at 06:25 PM
jay w
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


I'm surprised at the state of film photography. Twenty years ago, I switched to digital fully intending to continue film and darkroom work. Well, work and life happened and I never looked back. A freezer full of film just got complaints from my wife. Then this fall I pulled out a couple Rollei cameras and shot film on a vacation. Really fun to interact with old cameras. What surprised me was the young folks at the shop where I got the film developed, and then the online presence. I figured film was dead.

After talking to a guy from Rochester in maybe 2010, I knew film was dead. He said Kodak was demo'ing buildings in Kodak Park to get them off the tax roles. I figured those manufacturing abilities would never come back. (I used to work for Kodak and lived in Rochester for a while.) So I'm actually happy to see that 100 ft rolls of Tmax and TriX are still available. BW 4x5 film is $3 a sheet. That's reasonable. The things that's sad is the lack of slide film and the cost.

I'm also surprised to see a bunch of recently retired guys like me are firing up darkrooms. They hung onto the gear and 30 years later, they're dusting it off. Cool. Paper prices? Damn, now that's expensive.

Edited on Dec 17, 2024 at 08:58 AM · View previous versions



Dec 16, 2024 at 11:08 PM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


Tina Kino wrote:
1. Continuation of rising film prices -
Could be, but not by much more I think. Judging by what I see at my small local lab they sell way more Kodak Gold and ProImage, because a lot of people are not paying 17-20 for Portra any more (doesn't make sense to me at all if you break it down to cost per frame, but that's what's happening it seems, at least at this place).

2. Levelling out of higher priced film cameras like rangefinder M.
I would love to see that - very much hope you're right : )

3. Increased offerings of
...Show more

Thanks for your feedback from another German photographer (I am originally from there, too ). Yes, that we reached the peak of the film renaissance hype is my suspicion simply judging by more and more YouTubers who focused in the past on analog photography are now converting to digital with either monochrome cameras or going with Fuji MLC and their film repro JPGs. Many of them mention that they are no longer willing to pay the actual film prices.

Well, and personally I made the shift 2 years ago when I was no longer willing to pay the increased price for color films. I have since only focused on B&W film - and even here I cut down on my usage > 60% by switching back to digital with my M 246 monochrome camera. I am so far very happy with this move. I still enjoy shooting film but this is just for the fun of doing it - the image quality of B&W film is very close to digital monochrome (yes still not exactly the same but close enough).

Leica M film camera prices have become stagnant since a while - they are still priced at a high level, but what I am seeing all film M cameras have stopped to increase in used pricing. A decent used M3 is priced around $1500 for quite some time now. Will these prices come down? I believe yes to some degree but not to the level where they were before the pandemic. I expect them to come down 10-20% depending on model and quality in upcoming years with less demand when I am right that the film hype cools down - we will see!



Dec 17, 2024 at 08:01 AM
Tina Kino
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


retrofocus wrote:
Leica M film camera prices have become stagnant since a while - they are still priced at a high level, but what I am seeing all film M cameras have stopped to increase in used pricing.


..I was looking around on eBay earlier today (for used M6's and M7's), and got the impression prices have actually gone down a bit, compared to half a year / a year ago.

Not sure why that is exactly - maybe the hype is cooling down, or maybe enough people have realized how screwed they are in case something breaks..
I contacted Leica customer support in Wetzlar the other day - and they told me that even if I buy a used M directly from them (which is about 3K for a M7 in good condition), it won't be CLA'd, thus there will be no service certificate, only 12 months warranty - and if there's a problem it'll be 6-12 months for a repair (even if it happens during the warranty period) - and little chance of getting a loaner in the meantime.. this is nuts!



Dec 17, 2024 at 11:58 AM
OffTrail
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · Film photography in 2024 and 2025 - where we're at, and where we're going?


Tina Kino wrote:
..I was looking around on eBay earlier today (for used M6's and M7's), and got the impression prices have actually gone down a bit, compared to half a year / a year ago.

Not sure why that is exactly - maybe the hype is cooling down, or maybe enough people have realized how screwed they are in case something breaks..
I contacted Leica customer support in Wetzlar the other day - and they told me that even if I buy a used M directly from them (which is about 3K for a M7 in good condition), it won't be CLA'd, thus
...Show more

A nice M2 or M4 for under $2000, or a cheaper one that you expect to CLA, is going to be tough to beat for value and expected lifespan. You lose the meter, but there are some great workarounds there.



Dec 17, 2024 at 12:19 PM
       2       3       end




FM Forums | Film Is Not Dead Forum | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account