I don't understand the need to question someone's experience. If someone said they were being approached/spotted, take that for what it is. We all live in difference countries and cities. We don't know if said person is 155cm or 2 m meters tall, dressed as a clown or in all black, etc. You get the point. Your experience might be different, but no need to question another person's experience.
I think you will find that an A7C series camera with a lens won't be perceived much differently than your A7RIV. Ricoh is much smaller, and IMO it looks like a toy camera, so I can understand why people don't feel as intimidated by it. A7RC is unfortunately not stealthy enough and not small enough to make any real difference.
To make A7RC work, you will also have to change your lenses (35GM is too big) and change your mindset, and even after that it will still be not as light, small, and stealthy as your Ricoh GR. I am also contemplating replacing everything with something simple like Fuji X100VI or Ricoh GRIII but finding it difficult to let go of my FF kit.
GR's main drawback the useless tracking AF compared Sony, impossible get focused moving subject, and most time I use my gear shooting my kids.
I'm planning to get Viltrox 28mm pancake and perhaps a small 40-45mm f2.8 when use it as my GR but with far better AF and EVF option for bright sunny days. In 35GM's case I'd use the additional grip. For 28mm pancake kit I'd get a belt case, similar to GRIII's leather case.
Lukacs wrote:
GR's main drawback the useless tracking AF compared Sony, impossible get focused moving subject, and most time I use my gear shooting my kids.
I'm planning to get Viltrox 28mm pancake and perhaps a small 40-45mm f2.8 when use it as my GR but with far better AF and EVF option for bright sunny days. In 35GM's case I'd use the additional grip. For 28mm pancake kit I'd get a belt case, similar to GRIII's leather case.
I have A7rV, A7cII and Fuji X100V, and I have owned a Ricoh GRIII. These cameras are very different sizes, difference between A7rV and A7cII being smaller than difference between A7cII and X100V (not to mention GRIII).
I would say if the problem is that "real camera" is too large and visible, then A7c series is not a solution. One has to go to one of the compacts, or (maybe) cropped sensor fixed ICL camera.
That being said, I am very happy with the A7cII. Image quality is excellent, AF is excellent and IS is very good. Daily snapshots, streets, travel etc. - A7cII works just fine. A7rV is obviously a much nicer camera to use, but when using a small bag I can also feel that it is one step larger size (even if using the same lens, say 35 GM).
BTW I find that when using A7CII I do not really miss the resolution of A7rV. In all other aspects than resolution A7cII image quality is same or - when at high ISO - somewhat better. Image quality difference is the reason why I shoot aurora and night sky rather with A7cII. However, I do most of my landscape photography with A7rV. All in all, I am not saying that A7cII is a better camera than A7cr, but in the case of this kind ergonomically slightly limited small body slightly lower resolution is not a drawback.
A7CR drawbacks compared A7CII are the price and slower sensor readout (worse electronic shutter). However I like the 60MP sensor overall resolution and cropping ability, especially since I'm a prime lens shooter. I just press a button for APS-C mode and with 20 1.8G, I have 30mm f2,8 eq lens, or with 35gm 50mm f2 eq. lens with 26MP resolution. Downsized to 33MP I don't see significant difference in noise compared to the 33MP sensor.
I think GR3 is an unique camera, only high IQ pocketable on market. But AF for tracking sucks, I wonder if GR4 will come in early 2025 how the AF performs.
Lukacs wrote:
A7CR drawbacks compared A7CII are the price and slower sensor readout (worse electronic shutter). However I like the 60MP sensor overall resolution and cropping ability, especially since I'm a prime lens shooter. I just press a button for APS-C mode and with 20 1.8G, I have 30mm f2,8 eq lens, or with 35gm 50mm f2 eq. lens with 26MP resolution. Downsized to 33MP I don't see significant difference in noise compared to the 33MP sensor.
I think GR3 is an unique camera, only high IQ pocketable on market. But AF for tracking sucks, I wonder if GR4 will come in early 2025 how the AF performs....Show more →
Call me purist but I hate cropping even though my main camera is A7rV I know it comes handy at times, but the image looses also in depth and overall rendition when cropping.
Later iterations of Fujifilm X100 series are fine as a small camera. Fun to use. Ricoh takes nice pictures but bad rear screen and miserable battery life are real drawbacks. As a long time Nikon Coolpix A user, af was not a deal breaker for me, but it sure feels like getting 10 years back in time.
patotts wrote:
I don't understand the need to question someone's experience. If someone said they were being approached/spotted, take that for what it is. We all live in difference countries and cities. We don't know if said person is 155cm or 2 m meters tall, dressed as a clown or in all black, etc. You get the point. Your experience might be different, but no need to question another person's experience.
I took that question as entirely reasonable. Context matters. Where I live people are mostly relaxed about cameras. But last time I shot my 600mm near a kids playground I did get some strange looks from folks sitting on the benches. Lasted roughly till they observed me actually shooting. Birds in bushes that was.
I made that switch from the a7riv. No regrets really, I value the compact size, not because it is more discreet, but because I wanted the option of something small and light that I can slip into my everyday bag. The differences might not be huge when held in hand, but in a small bag with the weight on my shoulders, I can definitely feel it. I don't really think any of Sony's bodies are that different in how 'discreet' they look. Instead, lens choices will make the biggest difference, like a slow and compact prime vs a fast and gigantic zoom.
As for the one-finger LCD maneuver, the A7CR does offer its own little trick. When I shoot in portrait mode, I'll partially lift up the LCD with one finger, and press sides of the screen against my body to pull it out fully. Somewhat similar to what you described for tilt screens, but for portraits instead of landscapes. And yes, I primarily shoot with LCD because it looks more discreet if I don't need to make a huge motion to bring the camera to my eye. Also, because I primarily use the LCD, I don't really miss the large EVF on the A7riv.
For ECFS, it'll impact photos shot at fast shutter speeds and wide aperture, but not necessarily in a bad way. I think it is a lot more nuanced because not everything has to be buttery smooth with minimal texture to be good. In fact, some people might even like it! I should add that the AF in the A7CR is a significant improvement when taking photos of moving subjects like kids. Both are good, but one is better!
If I had to describe my opinion of the A7CR after one year? An unassuming, compact, everyday camera that has no reason to be this good and versatile. When I want the highest quality photo for print, I can shoot with a fast full-frame GM prime lens. If I want an absolutely compact setup, I can use an APSC pancake lens and still get 26mp of goodness. If I want a low-noise photos, downsampling from 61mp should provide a lot of room for noise reduction. If I shoot wildlife, I can easily switch to crop mode to increase reach.
If only the sensor read-out speed could be faster.
macadphotos wrote
If only the sensor read-out speed could be faster.
We are all waiting for the A1 tech to trickle down to mid priced cameras. But it will not happen anytime soon
I still hope that A7V will be a change to the direction you mention. Both Nikon and Cannon have fast scanning albeit low resolution cameras in this price category. If A7V has similar fast sensor with - say - 33mp or 40mp resolution, Sony will have a winner. That sensor would be excellent also to the third generation A7C series camera.
Third generation A7C should also have
* Lager EVF (also higher resolution with improved MF aids, please)
* Better screen with A7rV style tilt mechanism
* Slightly larger grip
* Advanced Panasonic LUT type image styles with possibility to do raw-jpg process in camera
* Fancy video features for those who need then - not so important for me
* Better - I mean really good - connection to phone
For the time being A7cII/r are fine cameras. Just give me a 28/2 G lens
I'd welcome a faster sensor readout, prefer it over higher resolution (over 60MP), but for me it's not that critical. I only use e-shutter for stills, barely shoot video, if I make video I hold the camera still without moving it.
As far I know the EVF magnification and resolution is the best available in that size, for upgrade you need bigger EVF, means bump on camera, then I don't seen any reason to exist alongside the normal A7 line. The multi mechanism LCD also bigger and thicker.
I was thinking a lot about the switching because I can't sell A7RIV before new year anyway.
I've got to conclusion I stick with my A7RIV and the reason is my 35GM and 50 1.2GM, I don't want to hassle with ND filters because of the max 1/4000 shutter speed. I've took lot of wide open pictures and at f1.2 even 1/8000 causes overexposured result, luckily there is enough highlight recovery in PP to deal with it. Electronic shutter ruled out, because slow sensor readout it's only good for landscape or still portraits.
I can live with any other disadvantage of A7CR, but I fear that max 1/4000 mechanical shutter would cause me a lot of trouble.
Same here. I did see, however, another photographer and subject get asked to leave at the State House. However, the photographer had a flash on a stand and a gold reflector on another stand.
Lukacs wrote:
I was thinking a lot about the switching because I can't sell A7RIV before new year anyway.
I've got to conclusion I stick with my A7RIV and the reason is my 35GM and 50 1.2GM, I don't want to hassle with ND filters because of the max 1/4000 shutter speed. I've took lot of wide open pictures and at f1.2 even 1/8000 causes overexposured result, luckily there is enough highlight recovery in PP to deal with it. Electronic shutter ruled out, because slow sensor readout it's only good for landscape or still portraits.
I can live with any other disadvantage of A7CR, but I fear that max 1/4000 mechanical shutter would cause me a lot of trouble....Show more →
As previously posted I have had the A7RIV for 5 years and took delivery of the A7CR 8 months ago. Like you I need 1/8000ss for many of my outdoor portraits as I live in a bright sunny desert area. Had planned to sell the A7RIV, but having the 35 and 50 f1.4 GM's, plus my 2 Batis portrait lenses at 85mm and 135mm, these are all a bit more comfortable on the larger body. Also have the 100-400GM for wildlife and airplane/jet photography and the larger body is a definite advantage here. Normally I shoot out of a Wotancraft 10L shoulder bag, but if the 100-400 is along it all goes in a 13L small backpack.
The A7CR will be my travel and daily carry with smaller lenses, my 55 f1.8 ZA and Sigma 90mm f2.8. While I have 2 smaller 35mm lenses, the ZA and Sigma I f.2, I plan to add this coming month the new E mount CV 28mm f1.5 Nokton, as I prefer the slightly wider FOV over the 35. It uses the same 49mm filters as the 55 f1.8 mm, so the occasional time I might need a higher than 1,4000ss these small filters will always be in my 6L sling bag. I also have been experimenting shooting at ISO 50 on bright days and so far that works just fine with the A7CR.
For me, I am keeping both 61MP bodies as each fills a need and has advantages.
UPDATE:
I got a barely used A7RV with still 4 years warranty exchanged for my A7RIVa (just expired warranty) and Ricoh GrIIIx (not used mutch anyway). I decided to try A7RV for the AF, articulating screen and later sell it for an A7CR. Also got ND8 filter to keep shutter speed under 1/1000 with EFCS.
After a few weeks experience I keep the A7RV, and decided not going for A7CR.
-Excellent EVF
-I don't want the articulating screen, ended up using only tilt 90% of time. With neck strap articulating screen become totally useless for me. It's good to have the option however in A7RV.
-Hassle with ND filter. In direct sun shutter speed is ok, but changing conditions or lower aperture auto iso start working and go up even over iso800 sometime, when without filter I'm still at iso 100-200 range. Far easier to turn EFCS off and just shoot without worrying iso or shutter speed.
-I won't buy pancake lenses. I'm using 20G, 35GM, and 50 1.2GM, sometime 65 APO for manual. So for now I wouldn't get any benefit from a smaller and lighter body, also with 20G or my old 21 color skopar A7RV is quite light and small.
Worth the upgrade from A7RIVA? The EVF is a huge upgrade and I've started using it more and more. AF also a significant update, it just stick to the eye and it's critical with super fast apertures. Multi axis screen is a nice feature I often use it in portrait orientation in articulating mode. M size raw also quite handy, I'm using it for all family shots and easier to work with in PP. The camera operation speed also improved, it's fast. But the AI chip eats the battery, using significant more power than A7RIV.
Because I hardly used my GR, it is a worthy upgrade. But for stills and landscapes I won't upgrade from A7RIV, because same IQ and has longer battery life.
UPDATE 2:
So there were a lot happen. I sold A7RV in April, because of the GFX100RF and I needed some funds. In June I purchased an used A7III for my remaining Voigtlander 21 3.5, 35GM, 65 APO. My main camera is the Fuji, I use Sony system for 20-30% of my shots. At October checked A7CR's grey market price, since I've never found used one in my country and the retail price is almost double of grey market's, so as I've always curious about CR I sold the A7III and pulled the trigger.
I really like A7CR, also got a Viltrox 50 F2 as a compact carry around setup, and for that purpose CR (or CII) is unbeatable. But after 2 months the articulating and low resolution display bothered me more and more. Can't get along with articulating screens it seems.
So now instead of the obvious solution, getting A7RV or a new A7V, I'm buying an A7RIVa. It's kind of ridiculous ending up where I started. I choose A7RIVa, simply because the AF performance is just enough for me, and still considerably cheaper than A7RV. I admit the advantages of A7RV's multi hinge screen, but overall prefer the thinner, easier to tilt, more minimal only tilting screen for my shooting style. Also I like the bit smaller and lighter camera body and significant better battery life in RIVa. And finally I'm maybe alone with this, but prefer RIVa Lightroom camera profiles over A7RV/CR, that magenta tinted colors always bothered me a bit.
Lukacs wrote:
UPDATE:
I got a barely used A7RV with still 4 years warranty exchanged
[...]
UPDATE 2:[...]And finally I'm maybe alone with this, but prefer RIVa Lightroom camera profiles over A7RV/CR, that magenta tinted colors always bothered me a bit.
Thank you for the updates!
Hey, it was a fun read seeing the circle complete. I haven't done such a perfect forth and back thing but I've certainly got buyer's remorse and changed direction(s) with no really good planning.
When you opened the thread in December last year I voiced my opinion on the A7CR. I tried to be neutral given I had sold mine just a month earlier and instead bought a used A1. I'm very happy with the camera. There are of course always details I wish Sony had made a little different but on the whole I like it a lot. I have no current plans for exchanging the A1 for something else.
I hope you'll find your RIVa good, perhaps so it may stay with you for a while. Changing gear doesn't help photography.
One thing: Your last sentence is about color profiles. I really think you should start making your own profiles. lack of a good profile can never be a reason to change camera in my opinion.
Jonas B wrote:
Thank you for the updates!
Hey, it was a fun read seeing the circle complete. I haven't done such a perfect forth and back thing but I've certainly got buyer's remorse and changed direction(s) with no really good planning.
When you opened the thread in December last year I voiced my opinion on the A7CR. I tried to be neutral given I had sold mine just a month earlier and instead bought a used A1. I'm very happy with the camera. There are of course always details I wish Sony had made a little different but on the whole I like it a lot. I have no current plans for exchanging the A1 for something else.
I hope you'll find your RIVa good, perhaps so it may stay with you for a while. Changing gear doesn't help photography.
One thing: Your last sentence is about color profiles. I really think you should start making your own profiles. lack of a good profile can never be a reason to change camera in my opinion.
My common problem with gear I need extended use to get into a conclusion. It's quite rare scenario I can immediately or after few days usage can disqualify a camera so renting is not a solution for me. This was the case with A7CR. Still I'm ok with the EVF, the articulating low res screen at first weeks grew on me, but after started annoying me more and more, the MF experience (have to zoom further to nail focus), and rotating screen for waist level shooting. There are much to love in CR. The form, weight, overall performance and capabilities. If I can afford to keep more funds in gear I may keep it alongside A7RIVa.
I should make color profiles, but I like A7RIV's standard camera profile, I can't say about A7RV/CR.
For me, the biggest limitations of the A7CR would be the following:
No Multiport, which means no accessories like the LRT TimeLapse Pro 3, advanced external timers, lightning/trigger systems, time-lapse controllers, laser or IR triggers, and so on.
With the A7CR you can only use a simple Bluetooth timer – nothing more, no cable options.
The internal intervalometer cannot shoot exposures longer than 30 seconds, it locks the camera while running, and you cannot change any settings during that time.
The internal bulb timer is also more of an emergency feature – something you might use once or twice a year, but not for serious work.
Dual card slot:
I would miss this a lot. Ever since I started shooting with two cards, I’ve had zero issues with data security, even on multi-week trips. Just put two 1 TB cards in the camera and you automatically have a backup – no need to carry extra SSDs or hard drives. It’s much more convenient and saves a lot of time. I definitely don’t miss the days when I had to create backups manually every evening.
I would also really miss the viewfinder.
I value being able to see my composition live in the best possible quality. Even the viewfinder of the A7R V – one of the best on the market – often feels not good enough to me. Yes, complaining at a high level, but the viewfinder is one of the most important aspects for me. And it’s simply far more enjoyable to work with an excellent viewfinder instead of a mediocre one.
I would also strongly miss the ultrasonic sensor cleaning.
With the A7C, I used to have constant dust problems and had to clean the sensor manually again and again. The slow “shake” mechanism in that camera is nowhere near real ultrasonic cleaning. The difference is huge. Since switching to ultrasonic cleaning, I haven’t seen a single dust spot – the problem simply does not exist anymore.
The rest would be acceptable for me and not a big issue, even though there are more differences. But these points would be too much compromise.
None of them are an issue for me.
The articulating mechanism screen and the screen resolution is the deal breaker. If A7CR would have a 2,3M tilt screen the following less important ones I can live with:
-EFCS mechanical shutter: Troublesome in brighter conditions with higher apertures
-EVF: magnification is acceptable, resolution is a bit low for my taste
-Joystick: I prefer for manual focusing over pushing the dial, or swiping the screen.
-Standard profile in LR, prefer A7RIV, CR need some tweaking
-Noticeably lower battery life: I've never felt the need of backup battery with A7RIV
A7CR advantages for me in order:
-AI AF tracking
-Brick shape body without EVF bump on top (packable into an EDC sling with small lens).
-7 Stop IBIS
-Faster operation
But none of them near important as high resolution tilting screen.
Lukacs wrote:
None of them are an issue for me.
The articulating mechanism screen and the screen resolution is the deal breaker. If A7CR would have a 2,3M tilt screen the following less important ones I can live with:
-EFCS mechanical shutter: Troublesome in brighter conditions with higher apertures
-EVF: magnification is acceptable, resolution is a bit low for my taste
-Joystick: I prefer for manual focusing over pushing the dial, or swiping the screen.
-Standard profile in LR, prefer A7RIV, CR need some tweaking
-Noticeably lower battery life: I've never felt the need of backup battery with A7RIV
A7CR advantages for me in order:
-AI AF tracking
-Brick shape body without EVF bump on top (packable into an EDC sling with small lens).
-7 Stop IBIS
-Faster operation
But none of them near important as high resolution tilting screen. ...Show more →
I don’t own it ( yet ) but the biggest advantage for me would be size / weight.
I know it comes handy at times, but the image looses also in depth and overall rendition when cropping. 
