fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3       4              6       7       end
  

Archive 2024 · My take on the Sony A1 II

  
 
old-gregg
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #1 · My take on the Sony A1 II


If that's the case, gentlemen, then your dream camera has nothing to do with photography indeed. What you need is a video helmet, i.e. a wearable video contraption capable of 360 degree capture at 300fps. Each frame will be fed to AI and analyzed for the presence of trains, eyelashes, ducks, insects and of course beavers. The top 0.001% frames will be automatically posted on Instagram. Now we finally have the vision for A1 Mk3 and the Sony engineers can stop guessing the new ways to impress.


Nov 21, 2024 at 07:28 PM
berimbolo
Offline
• • •
[X]
p.5 #2 · My take on the Sony A1 II


old-gregg wrote:
If that's the case, gentlemen, then your dream camera has nothing to do with photography indeed. What you need is a video helmet, i.e. a wearable video contraption capable of 360 degree capture at 300fps. Each frame will be fed to AI and analyzed for the presence of trains, eyelashes, ducks, insects and of course beavers. The top 0.001% frames will be automatically posted on Instagram. Now we finally have the vision for A1 Mk3.


Do you have a Flikr or Instagram? Id like to see what real photos look like.



Nov 21, 2024 at 07:31 PM
telyt
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #3 · My take on the Sony A1 II


old-gregg wrote:
If that's the case, gentlemen, then your dream camera has nothing to do with photography indeed. What you need is a video helmet, i.e. a wearable video contraption capable of 360 degree capture at 300fps. Each frame will be fed to AI and analyzed for the presence of trains, eyelashes, ducks, insects and of course beavers. The top 0.001% frames will be automatically posted on Instagram. Now we finally have the vision for A1 Mk3 and the Sony engineers can stop guessing the new ways to impress.


Since we have little in common to discuss, I have found a good use for the HIDE ME button.



Nov 21, 2024 at 07:40 PM
arbitrage
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #4 · My take on the Sony A1 II


berimbolo wrote:
Do you have a Flikr or Instagram? Id like to see what real photos look like.


My bet is you'll never see it. The people that degrade other people's types of photography rarely share their work. If they even do photography at all.



Nov 21, 2024 at 07:44 PM
duncangr
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #5 · My take on the Sony A1 II


bernardl wrote:
Already today CFecoress B cut import type in half.

And it seems clear that cameras shooting twice as fast would probably be able to write to card twice as fast also. The point being that the card should not be the bottleneck.

As far as bulk goes, one CFecoress B and one CFecpres A is a possibility as well.

Cheers,
Bernard



This comment is a little ironic given flagship cameras with dual Type B cards are still stuck with jpeg pre-capture and 20fps and the two fastest cameras on the market are using Type A cards - go figure !






Nov 21, 2024 at 07:47 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #6 · My take on the Sony A1 II


berimbolo wrote:
Do you have a Flikr or Instagram? Id like to see what real photos look like.


I highly doubt you’ll see anything from members like him. They talk a lot, but when rubber hits the road…crickets.



Nov 21, 2024 at 08:12 PM
tctmp
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #7 · My take on the Sony A1 II


old-gregg wrote:
If that's the case, gentlemen, then your dream camera has nothing to do with photography indeed. What you need is a video helmet, i.e. a wearable video contraption capable of 360 degree capture at 300fps. Each frame will be fed to AI and analyzed for the presence of trains, eyelashes, ducks, insects and of course beavers. The top 0.001% frames will be automatically posted on Instagram. Now we finally have the vision for A1 Mk3 and the Sony engineers can stop guessing the new ways to impress.


I guess in your logic satellite photo is not a photo either, since certainly no one is pressing the shutter.



Nov 21, 2024 at 08:28 PM
Ubiquity99
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #8 · My take on the Sony A1 II


tctmp wrote:
I guess in your logic satellite photo is not a photo either, since certainly no one is pressing the shutter.


old-gregg in 1890 would have been complaining that people wanted to take photographs of objects in motion



Nov 21, 2024 at 08:40 PM
old-gregg
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #9 · My take on the Sony A1 II


tctmp wrote:
I guess in your logic satellite photo is not a photo either, since certainly no one is pressing the shutter.


I don't claim ownership of logic. It's not mine. But we have separate words for photos and videos for a reason. Kill Bill is a movie, not a photo album. If you enjoy filming movies and plucking frames out of them, I'm happy for you (although I'm not sure why you need a camera though, just go on youtube and start digging!). That's just not what a logical person would call photography.



Nov 21, 2024 at 10:57 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #10 · My take on the Sony A1 II


old-gregg wrote:
I don't claim ownership of logic. It's not mine. But we have separate words for photos and videos for a reason. Kill Bill is a movie, not a photo album. If you enjoy filming movies and plucking frames out of them, I'm happy for you (although I'm not sure why you need a camera though, just go on youtube and start digging!). That's just not what a logical person would call photography.


When the vast majority view it as photography and ummm…one does not, wonder who we should listen to?



Nov 21, 2024 at 11:03 PM
matth4ever
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #11 · My take on the Sony A1 II


"If this forum believes that flipping through 60 frames of video footage to pluck an image you like can be called photography, then we don't have much in common to talk about. I am wondering though, suppose Sony adds a "beaver mode" where a trained AI will automatically press the shutter for you, will you continue chasing beavers?"

Wow. It's clear your mind is closed to all forms of photography, except those that match your mindset. For me, getting to know how different species of wildlife behave and using that knowledge to get into the right position to have an interesting background and composition, while, for example, in a kayak, when a loon does something interesting, like it's penguin dance, takes flight, or a beaver flaps its tail, is an extremely rewarding genre of photography. All of these things benefit from speed and related functions in the camera. Just because you don't practice this type of photography, is not a reason to be disrespectful to those who do.



Nov 22, 2024 at 01:52 AM
twodees
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #12 · My take on the Sony A1 II


That's my approach. You get better images with a good knowledge of your subject and its habitat. Fieldwork (and to a lesser extent fieldcraft) seem overlooked by many.

matth4ever wrote:
For me, getting to know how different species of wildlife behave and using that knowledge to get into the right position to have an interesting background and composition... is an extremely rewarding genre of photography.





Nov 22, 2024 at 02:19 AM
duncangr
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #13 · My take on the Sony A1 II


old-gregg wrote:
I don't claim ownership of logic. It's not mine. But we have separate words for photos and videos for a reason. Kill Bill is a movie, not a photo album. If you enjoy filming movies and plucking frames out of them, I'm happy for you (although I'm not sure why you need a camera though, just go on youtube and start digging!). That's just not what a logical person would call photography.


So how are you going to go about capturing this image - or are you suggesting this isn't a photograph (natural history right?) - some people are 100% convinced this is AI generated and it's not a real photo so you won't be alone !!

Just pretend for the sake of argument that you dreamt about capturing this kind of image and putting it up on your wall, as I and many others do - or selling it to the clamouring photo agencies ??

Talk us through it - tell us what sort of timeframes it might take you and what sort of equipment you would use. What is it going to cost you to travel to this location and how long are you going to sit there waiting for that right opportunity ?

You want to get that jackal bumping into the dove - just the right moment.

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-07/Desktop-Kgalagadi-2024/DGB_20240710_1_5858_1_DxD.jpg

Or perhaps you dream about raptors so maybe this one then - that bird is doing between 15 and 30 meters per second - which translates into half a meter per frame shooting at 30fps and 15cm per frame at 120fps.

Now how are you going to capture the exact moment before those talons close on the prey ?

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-07/Desktop-Kgalagadi-2024/DGB_20240725_1_8831_M_DxD.jpg

And finally does it even matter whether anyone thinks this is photography ? If enough people want to do this then Sony, Canon and Nikon will be making gear than enables it.

Make no mistake though - even with the A9iii you have to know what you are doing and you're going to have to practice and study the animals in their habitat, and you're going to need a lot of patience or you're going to need someone who knows what to do and where to go and when to go to show you.




Nov 22, 2024 at 02:26 AM
matth4ever
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #14 · My take on the Sony A1 II


"Make no mistake though - even with the A9iii you have to know what you are doing and you're going to have to practice and study the animals in their habitat, and you're going to need a lot of patience or you're going to need someone who knows what to do and where to go and when to go to show you."

Absolutely. Most of what I do is just getting out in the field and observing. Once you have a sense for a species', and even individuals' habits, as well as the location your are in, you are much better equiped to have educated guesses on when something is about to happen, and to get in the right position for compelling backgrounds and compositions. All this takes incredible patience as you mentioned. Speed in the camera is just a tool that can help significantly in capturing those fleeting moments after you've been out in the field for hours and you are lucky enough for something interesting to happen.






Nov 22, 2024 at 02:43 AM
swldstn
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #15 · My take on the Sony A1 II


I currently shoot with both Canon R5 and Sony A1 x 2 plus an A7RV and a A7CR and A7CII. Also shot for a year with a Nikon Z9. Currently been considering selling an A1 and upgrading it to either an A1 II or a Canon EOS R5 Mark II to use primarily for birds in flight and wildlife. I don’t really shoot video but admit I’d love to learn if I could but if I take that plunge my first subjects would probably my grand kids before anything else. Also I used to shoot sports and events as well so I do prefer a camera at 45-50 Mpixels at this point that supports cropping instead of 24 Mpixels. I used to shoot on Canon with a 1DX and 1DX Mark II and on Sony with a gripped A9 and A9 II so I know I want more for BIF and Wildlife I love to capture.

So why do I want to upgrade? Primarily for pre-capture. So that’s why I started to read the postings here before this became a rant by several about video vs. stills and other things and not about camera hardware. Any chance we can get this thread back on topic?




Nov 22, 2024 at 07:11 AM
patotts
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #16 · My take on the Sony A1 II


chiron wrote:
The A7C and A7CR are a perfect size for me and my purposes in photography. If one of them had a stacked sensor at 40 or more mpix, I would be very happy. An improved EVF would also be nice, but even that I could live without.


This is what I'm being saying - Sony needs a 40mp something (even a stack version of the 42mp from the a7R3 would be great) - if they can pack it into an a7C-style body, even better.

I know the Canon R5 II is big (not really heavy), I often hesitate to bring my a7RV + 35GM for walks here in Paris but it is too big and heavy - just not comfortable when you are trying to walk a puppy.




Nov 22, 2024 at 07:28 AM
matth4ever
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #17 · My take on the Sony A1 II


"So why do I want to upgrade? Primarily for pre-capture. So that’s why I started to read the postings here before this ..."

Well, for BIF and wildlife, if you want dynamic action shots (eg. a bird taking off), I would highly recommend pre-capture. In my experience, often the most dynamic captures happen more quickly than many humans (well at least me !) can react to. Pre-capture is great tool for these occasions. For example, I find images of birds exploding off a perch more dynamic/compelling than a shot of a bird in mid flight. To capture those take-off shots, precapture is really, really helpful.

I've been happy with the R5 II precapture. Just wish I could turn it on and off with a single button press. Currently I just leave it on, with my R5 II and am living with that. The benefits outweight the drawbacks. It would also be nice if the amount of precapture was customizable. But the pre-set value (15 images I believe), seems to work well for me. I suspect the AI II implementation will not have either of these limitations, FWIW.



Nov 22, 2024 at 07:28 AM
Amahenlei
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #18 · My take on the Sony A1 II


I preordered the A1 II after much deliberation. I mostly shoot landscapes, nature photography (not birds), street photography, my kids sporting events/performances, and family photos. Like others, I wasn't the most impressed by the updates when comparing to the original A1, but I also recall reading the forums advising to be ready to spend $8500 or more on the updated camera if it hit all of those expected metrics. Based on the price jump of the A9 III relative to previous iterations, and how close it came to the price of the flagship A1, I was initially happy the price didn't balloon with the release of the A1 II and in fact stayed the same.

I'll admit, the happiness of the price holding steady was tempered by many of the YouTube videos, comments here, and comments on other blogs/Reddit. It's clear this camera is priced high when comparing to the R5II and Z8, but I still don't know if that means the A1 II is overpriced.

I think it's overpriced if you're a current A1 owner for sure. The lack of firmware updates and the massive issues with firmware for the A1 didn't help instill brand loyalty and I can see why those owners take this as a bit of a punch in the gut. From the outside it appears these could have been firmware updates, but that's beyond my pay grade. For a shooter not previously in the flagship A1 system, the ability to purchase the new updated version of the camera for the same price as the previous feels like a bit of a win.

Part of me feels that's what Sony was thinking as well - how can a customer be disappointed that a new camera with added features would cost the same as the previous version. They know how well the original A1 was still selling at that price point. When comparing the A1 II price in comparison to other Sony offerings, it still feels like a good value to me for the features received. As a hobbyist, I wouldn't have been able to justify a $8,000 or $9,000 camera. $6,500 was hard to justify.

As a note, I currently own the A7 IV and have been debating on upgrading for quite some time and will be keeping the A7 IV as my second body. I almost pulled the trigger on the A9 III multiple times, and if I owned an A7RV instead of the A7 IV I probably would have. That being said, as much as I loved the 120 FPS of the A9 III, I marveled at its global shutter, and technological upgrades, it wasn't the right choice for me as my primary body. I wanted to wait to see what the A1 II would bring.

Interestingly, I genuinely appreciate the comments old-gregg has made on this forum as well. I understand where he's coming from and don't take any offense to it, even as a person who would love to have 120 FPS (or more) and loves new technology. In addition to photography, I do metal working and woodworking. You see these debates all the time (moreso with woodworking than metal) that suggest someone with a CNC machine isn't a woodworker. To me, if a person is happy programming a CNC and having a finished product come out in 1/100th of the time it would take the time to handmake it then that's great for them. At the same time, I can appreciate that the person who does it by hand has had a different level of appreciation for the finished product. Both methods take a lot of talent, repetition, and training to achieve a quality result and if each person is happy then that's ultimately all that matters.

I'm not a wildlife photographer, but (keeping in line with the beaver example earlier) if I can go out and shoot a beaver and get that tail slap using the same methods I would at 10 FPS vs 30 FPS vs 120 FPS then why wouldn't I use that to my advantage. I'd imagine that being in position for that shot is the most difficult part. Now, I just want to capture something cool and different. If 120 FPS helps me achieve that perfect shot then I'll gladly take it. I think we've all taken shots at 10 FPS and none of them had that perfect image we were looking for. Same can be true at 120 FPS. But, why not give yourself that opportunity to get the perfect shot especially if the culling is something you've gained skill at.

For me, the reason I chose the A1 II over the A9 III is the resolution and the fact that as much as 120 FPS is an awesome feature, I don't realistically see myself shooting at 120 FPS often and 30 FPS should provide me more than I need when shooting my children's sports. These are definitely first world problems, and if I can't be happy with 30 FPS then I've got greater issues to deal with (I'm aware this happiness/expectation is directly related to cost/value for most people). The updated body, precapture, etc all came to the A1 II and the price didn't go up. No way was I going to be able to purchase this camera at $8500, but I was able to get a fantastic camera for the outgoing price of the old. I think a sell price of $4500 (now closer to $4000) for the A1 is pretty darn good value retention for a 4 year old camera and a value hit I'd he happy to take over 4 years with an A1 II (no one in the Sony ecosystem seems to be mentioning the used market price of a 4 year old camera being just below/above that of the R5II or Z8 - that on it's own is pretty remarkable). When Sony updates the A1 II in a few years time I feel that the value will still be there to trade in and up for the new version.

That being said, if Sony wants to drop the price to $4500 during the preorder time I'll gladly pay that price with no complaints.




Nov 22, 2024 at 10:07 AM
matth4ever
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #19 · My take on the Sony A1 II


Amahenlei - pretty much agree with all that you've written there. The only thing I'd reply with is that, based on my experience with the R5 II vs what I see on paper, and in the early reviews re. the A1 II, it strongly suggests to me that the A1 II is indeed overpriced - at least relative to the R5 II.


Nov 22, 2024 at 12:16 PM
telyt
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #20 · My take on the Sony A1 II


matth4ever wrote:
Amahenlei - pretty much agree with all that you've written there. The only thing I'd reply with is that, based on my experience with the R5 II vs what I see on paper, and in the early reviews re. the A1 II, it strongly suggests to me that the A1 II is indeed overpriced - at least relative to the R5 II.


It's only overpriced if it doesn't sell in the quantities that Sony anticipated. Keep in mind that the camera's ecosystem is a factor in its value proposition, and it won't be the same for everyone.

Edited on Nov 22, 2024 at 01:05 PM · View previous versions



Nov 22, 2024 at 12:48 PM
1       2       3       4              6       7       end




FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3       4              6       7       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account