Couple more from my quick test walk around. I needed to see if the infinity was good on the Kolari a7rII (f5.6 probably). Second one, I didn't even see the white guy, they sleep in trees in summer daytime, but he has one eye on me (f4 probably). I like the color a lot, very relaxing visually seeing it done well, for this kind of thing at least.
Lens arrived today and I took some shots inside as it is snowing and gray out. Love the rendering. Hopefully, I can go take a walk with it tomorrow, weather permitting.
I used the Summilux lens correction in LR.
LEICA SL3Unknown Lens lens50mmf/1.21/500s6400 ISO-0.3 EV
Abuttolph wrote:
Lens arrived today and I took some shots inside as it is snowing and gray out. Love the rendering. Hopefully, I can go take a walk with it tomorrow, weather permitting.
I used the Summilux lens correction in LR.
Agreed, the rendering is really smooth, different enough to my subjective first glance from the 50 Lux ASPH, but right up there in IQ. This one's a keeper for me, makes me want to try the other Simera iterations which can all be had for the price of one used 35 Summicron.
Many want greater sharpness and f2 provides just that, if/when f1.4 is not good enough, but with the 14 blade induced smooth bokeh intact. This system wide effect of combined (i) close up sharpness, (ii) close MFD and (iii) perpetual smooth bokeh shows this company is thinking well, and optimizing all contributing factors it can, to achieve a key objective.
(Cosina went to a lot of trouble to design in round apertures for the 35/2 and 50/2 APOs, but at only a few settings like the critical f2.8 and f5.6 in the 35mm. Coincidentally, these settings define the aperture range through which the Summilux 50mm struggles with its bokeh balls.)
There is a lack of excess sharpness artifacts, so images in good light have a clean transparency to them. Resolution is high but acutance is restrained, so wide open imagery is never harsh, and it is very lifelike. It will enable me to sell two 50s. There is not much within the reach of a 50mm that it cannot do, with grace and effectiveness.
It looks like DZO kept the the Summilux look, then improved it to end up with quite a high degree of differentiation. Even the rear elements were reversed, an air gap introduced. It renders close to the same, but it's actually quite a different lens, mostly in improved ways.
Some report the 35/1.4 as being less satisfying for sharpness but it has an elegant cine feel to its images. Maybe it grows on some people, and not many see what it offers. It is a full millimetre wider than the Leica 35/1.4 that it was obviously quite faithfully based on.
It gets by with high refractive index glass (3) and the 'inherited' aspherical #5 element. It looks excellent and film-like in some short movies I have seen, and YT presenters remark that their viewers responded very positively to it.
Looking ahead, because the 50/1.4 is a hard act to follow, it's best to not have too high expectations about often the hardest lenses to get right in a range: a 75m and a 21mm. We'll see them in the forthcoming Simera 75/1.4 and 21/1.4, the bookends of the present range configuration. The footage from the cine versions seen so far is promising but inconclusive, of course.
Like Leica and Cosina, DZO are fans of the 75mm focal length and they use it in their cine lens lineups, so it's not new to them.
Hopefully, the 21mm will be kind of an extended wider version of the 28mm, with that DZO naturalism in it. That would be ideal. We can expect some interesting bokeh from that one in close focus imagery, at 21mm bokeh might occupy 90% of the frame.
I'm interested to see it at work, especially for portraits in confined spaces like cafes, queues, intimate street and interior spaces. And also 'scapes. Not many 21/1.4 lenses around, it is a bit like the hot hatch category of sports sedans, if you get my drift. Lenses there are expected to be flamboyant.
philip_pj wrote:
Some report the 35/1.4 as being less satisfying for sharpness but it has an elegant cine feel to its images. Maybe it grows on some people, and not many see what it offers. It is a full millimetre wider than the Leica 35/1.4 that it was obviously quite faithfully based on.
Saw it in action but the rendering is too smooth (for lack of better word) for my liking, plus the 28 gives me a lot more useful field of view so I went for it, there's probably nothing renders like a 1.4 on 28mm, and only handful of options among all platforms.
Interested if people think there is a case for owning the Simera given that I already own the Voigtlander 50 2.2 color skopar (which I like a lot and is a great walk around lens). During the Black Friday sale I ordered it from Adorama knowing it was back ordered and wouldn’t be charged until it shipped in January. I had been planning to cancel the order but — oops — never did and now it has shipped. I am mostly a 50 mm shooter so there is that. But I also have a 35 mm 1.4 for my Fuji so I have a fast 50 that I really love. But with all the praise this gets it is tempting to have arguably Summilux performance at this price point (especially given the Black Friday discount). I would be inclined to keep it but that would cut into my Leica M upgrade budget. (Looking to move from a M240 to a M10/M11.) If anyone has (or has tested) both these lenses would be interested in your thoughts.
Nocc wrote:
Agreed, the rendering is really smooth, different enough to my subjective first glance from the 50 Lux ASPH, but right up there in IQ. This one's a keeper for me, makes me want to try the other Simera iterations which can all be had for the price of one used 35 Summicron.
Totally agree. If Thypoch keeps up with this quality, I will be getting more of their lenses as well. The number of truly wonderful M-mount lenses seems to be increasing all the time. I have several Voigtlanders that I love, especially the Nokton 50/1.2. Not only is it fun and inspiring to see these beautiful lenses and the images that come from them, but seeing people's enthusiasm is great as well.
I probably won't get outside with this lens for a few days as we are having intermittent bouts of freezing rain, rain, and snow, so that will have to wait. Here is one more shot yesterday evening from inside using the high contrast monochrome option on the Leica SL3. The tonality for monochrome is beautiful. Minor edits on the image.
LEICA SL3Unknown Lens lens50mmf/2.81/500s6400 ISO0.0 EV
ColginPhoto wrote:
Interested if people think there is a case for owning the Simera given that I already own the Voigtlander 50 2.2 color skopar (which I like a lot and is a great walk around lens). During the Black Friday sale I ordered it from Adorama knowing it was back ordered and wouldn’t be charged until it shipped in January. I had been planning to cancel the order but — oops — never did and now it has shipped. I am mostly a 50 mm shooter so there is that. But I also have a 35 mm 1.4 for my Fuji so I have a fast 50 that I really love. But with all the praise this gets it is tempting to have arguably Summilux performance at this price point (especially given the Black Friday discount). I would be inclined to keep it but that would cut into my Leica M upgrade budget. (Looking to move from a M240 to a M10/M11.) If anyone has (or has tested) both these lenses would be interested in your thoughts. ...Show more →
My question to you is: do you shoot mostly at or near wide open? Just based on the reviews by Fred and images posted by others here, between the Thypoch 50/1.4 and VM 50/2.2 you're going to see the most differences wide open where the Thypoch should be smoother in the transition zone and with more Gaussian (smoother) background blur, both in quantity and quality. If a lot of your work is stopped down there probably won't be as much difference other than IIRC the VM never really shaking off vignetting. Both appear to be sharp lenses, so I wouldn't decide based on that, but rather on whatever rendering/character you prefer. Where the VM has a definite advantage is much smaller size if the 1.3 stops difference doesn't matter much to you.
@rscheffler - I am generally an “f8 and be there” photographer but there is always a time and a place for shooting wide open. But even with my XF 35 1.4 my idea of WO is still stopped down to 2.0. Plenty of bokeh due to closer MFD and has a very nice WO rendering to me even at f2. The VM color skopar doesn’t necessarily excel in that respect at 2.2 which is surprising to me given I am using the M240 full frame sensor so should get shallower depth of field. Maybe I am shooting from farther away. Yes, there is closer focusing but I rarely use live view so am stuck at 0.7 MFD.
I have taken a few test shots at the local Leica store with the 50 summilux taken WO and thought those looked very nice. Out of my budget so was looking at the Thypoch as a much cheaper alternative. But as a practical matter I don’t shoot WO too often and do have my Fuji if I need nice bokeh.
ColginPhoto wrote:
Interested if people think there is a case for owning the Simera given that I already own the Voigtlander 50 2.2 color skopar (which I like a lot and is a great walk around lens). During the Black Friday sale I ordered it from Adorama knowing it was back ordered and wouldn’t be charged until it shipped in January. I had been planning to cancel the order but — oops — never did and now it has shipped. I am mostly a 50 mm shooter so there is that. But I also have a 35 mm 1.4 for my Fuji so I have a fast 50 that I really love. But with all the praise this gets it is tempting to have arguably Summilux performance at this price point (especially given the Black Friday discount). I would be inclined to keep it but that would cut into my Leica M upgrade budget. (Looking to move from a M240 to a M10/M11.) If anyone has (or has tested) both these lenses would be interested in your thoughts. ...Show more →
I realize you've already got the VM 2.2 ... have you look at the Thypoch Eureka. 50/2 ... but might have a different rendering than your VM. Similar size / weight as your VM, but with possible Thypoch drawing style to "split the diff" a bit.
ColginPhoto wrote:
I have taken a few test shots at the local Leica store with the 50 summilux taken WO and thought those looked very nice. Out of my budget so was looking at the Thypoch as a much cheaper alternative. But as a practical matter I don’t shoot WO too often and do have my Fuji if I need nice bokeh.
If you like the 50 Lux wide open, then the Thypoch is the closest M system alternative. Where the Lux has some advantage is its slightly smaller size. For me at least, the Lux is my go-to 50mm because of the combination of speed when needed, excellent stopped down performance, excellent wide aperture LoCA control and reasonable size. I haven't yet tried the Typoch so can't say how much its slightly larger size and different ergonomic/design philosophy might work against it. In pictures it's not much larger, but as you know, just a few mm here and there on the M system can sometimes be substantial.
While I realize keeping the Thypoch eats into your upgrade budget, I don't think you will find a better 'bang for the buck' fast 50mm alternative at this time, IF the point of comparison is the 50 Lux ASPH.
Some data: most might agree you have to compare the CF version of the Summilux 50/1.4 with the Simera 50/1.4, simply because of the importance that the 0.45m brings to the table. The comparo for weight is 281 grams (Simera) vs 337 grams of the Lux - an advantage of 56 grams.
Actually, Leica's data sheet shows the CF's weight as 377 grams, hopefully a typo. Maybe a member can check for us.
The Leica has a built-in hood, so that's an unfair comparison. The Simera's (excellent) hood weighs just 19 grams, bringing it up to an even 300 grams (my travel lens reference mark), for an apples-to-apples advantage of 37g, or over 10%. A good effort, given the complex aperture mechanism. Maybe the holes they drilled for the DOF widget made a difference.
I leave the hood on all the time, something I got used to with the Voigtlanders, because the hood cap is also attractive and fits so well over a filter too (I use a Kolari Sony). The complex shape Simera hood weighs 23 grams by the way. Weight is a major preoccupation with DZO/Thypoch. It's how they sell their cine lenses.
Now, another M metric is lens length, given that the Summilux lacks internal focusing. Fine to go with its measured metric of 59mm (Simera is 53mm and it stays that length over the range), but you have to consider your most used focal distance. It's unlikely to use a fast fifty much near infinity, most will be looking at MFD to say, 3m. And the Lux extends the usual amount (around 15mm). Diameter for the Simera is 54mm, the CF is 59mm.
The current Summilux lens is broader, longer and heavier.
The two lenses produce similar images in some circumstances (certainly not all, given the aperture blade differences (11 vs 14)) and it will eventuate that people see the Simera not as a mere copy but a finely tuned reimagining of a famous lens, but with considerable internal differences in element spacing, order of correction increments, element shaping and glass choices.
They did it well and they did it quickly. Unprejudiced observers will be impressed. The company could make a lot of money doing this kind of development program with some very special vintage lenses of yesteryear.
@Tariq Gibran - was that photo (very nice) taken at a distance closer than RF coupling allows using LV or visoflex or is that a RF-focused shot. Would be nice to get such bokeh stopped down to f4 while still using the RF. But I suspect you may be closer than 0.7m there.
ColginPhoto wrote:
@Tariq Gibran@ - was that photo (very nice) taken at a distance closer than RF coupling allows using LV or visoflex or is that a RF-focused shot. Would be nice to get such bokeh stopped down to f4 while still using the RF. But I suspect you may be closer than 0.7m there.
It was taken with an SL2 - so no RF - but the distance was right at 0.7m.
