nehemiahphoto wrote:
Is anyone who owns a 50 Lux selling their 50 Lux and getting this Simera 50/1.4 instead?
I sold my 50 Lux ASPH earlier this year when I sold my Leica M10 kit, but that lens was among my favorites that I have ever used. I had thought I would get it again when I had a camera to use it on, but after seeing this thread and Fred's review I will very likely get this Simera 50 f/1.4 instead.
Steve Spencer wrote:
I sold my 50 Lux ASPH earlier this year when I sold my Leica M10 kit, but that lens was among my favorites that I have ever used. I had thought I would get it again when I had a camera to use it on, but after seeing this thread and Fred's review I will very likely get this Simera 50 f/1.4 instead.
I know this isn't necessarily a fair comparison...but how the Simera compares to Leica 50 APO. All images/crops below are wide open. First thing I did when comparing was zoom into the center, and I was shocked. I haven't compared MTF charts. I thought something was wrong with the 50 APO. I then looked at the full image from left/right and corner to corner, it's clear which lens is more expensive when looking at the overall image . The 50 APO is just so good across the frame. I just compared the MTF charts for both, and I'm pretty much seeing exactly what they say. See below
Now look at this....this is extremely interesting. At f/8, when comparing just sharpness....the Simera is contrastier and slightly sharper ACROSS the frame compared to the APO
I view these lenses in a separate categories of use cases. The APO is for when you want clinical and as sharp as possible images. The Simera I would use for an entirely different render based and emotional image. If you look at the MTF charts of some of the most sought after, and expensive lenses their MTF charts are not very good. Yet they make legendary images with impact. I tend to have only one lens in a given focal length. However in my two most used focal length which are 35mm and 50mm I usually have at least two for this very reason.
At f/4 the APO is clearly superior across the image, the Simera catches up and gets close in the mid zone and edges at f/5.6 and dare I say surpasses at f/8. That being said, there are clearly other things to look at when comparing the two and the APO will have the clear edge in CA and flare control. I do not like the sun in the Simera images at all. The flare is not well controlled and the rays look much better on the APO
1bwana1 wrote:
I view these lenses in a separate categories of use cases. The APO is for when you want clinical and as sharp as possible images. The Simera I would use for an entirely different render based and emotional image. If you look at the MTF charts of some of the most sought after, and expensive lenses their MTF charts are not very good. Yet they make legendary images with impact. I tend to have only one lens in a given focal length. However in my two most used focal length which are 35mm and 50mm I usually have at least two for this very reason....Show more →
I would 100% agree, extremely different uses for these lenses. Just thought it would be interesting to compare. I was shocked how well the center sharpness is with the Simera
Every lens a rational person (head as well as heart) considers should have solid answers to the question: 'what shotmaking challenge(s) and circumstance(s) will this lens address?'. The '(s)' is pretty key in a 50mm, many will want versatility to help with carry weight and the broad situations encountered in travel photography.
You can run through the situations in your head and see how the candidates stack up. It might be: street, cafe, light nature, hardcore nature, cityscapes, beach, Euro tourism, gritty B&W, etc.
Here is something I picked up on a few years back, since basically I just frequent chez Fred (for chat anyway): look closely at the images most people shoot with any given lens, you get a very sound idea what the lens works for, and what it does not do so well.
The APOs have their place of course, but you see a lot of street, bric-a-brac, statues, buildings, big scenery - subjects that reward fine aberration control, but not much of people or character imagery.
That's just one example, but that is what I do. I figure the Simeras do great closeups, people, interiors, focus fade character imagery, basically like what you see in movies (duh) but sharp enough to try much more. I often find I want 'within bokeh' background content but I want it dreamy and natural, and they deliver it well, even the 75mm (not yet in stills form).
rsolti13 wrote:
I would 100% agree, extremely different uses for these lenses. Just thought it would be interesting to compare. I was shocked how well the center sharpness is with the Simera
I think that's a salient point ... how well a lens can be made that handles 25% of the frame well vs. what it takes to handle 95% of the frame well, wide open. Don't bog down on the numbers, but many a lens can benefit from stopping down. Lenses that don't need to be stopped down as much, offer a different kind of value. They cost more to make, but if you don't need to stop down, then you are essentially gaining stops of light.
Note: The Simera MTF's (iirc) are for 30 lp/mm, whereas the Leica is showing 40 lp/mm. So, the diff is greater than the charts (if folks assume them to be at similar lp/mm) suggest. The proof is in the pudding ... the first set of images, the diff is more than the MTF's might indicate (if they were the same lp/mm).
And, +1 "use case" can harness those diff's ... in both directions, when well mated to knowing the attributes of a given lens.
Can you do something like your posted comparison, but at 10 or so feet and look across the frame? Fred's testing indicated the Simera was not as good as the 50 Lux at this distance, even in the midframe, though it was better at infinite (similar to your testing). I personally prefer a 50/1.4 perform better at near and mid-distance in the central and midframe than at infinite.
I think you'd see a much larger difference. Would be interesting.
Most users of the Simeras, cine and stills, are very interested in using MFD close to near-close focus distances, say out to 2-3 metres. This kind of shooting brings the close focus ability to the fore and maximizes the bokeh effects - from wide open to around f5.6. That is the distance range I take portraits within. If you don't use this advantage or don't need it or need great corners near wide open, this might not be the lens for you. It's clearly a big part of the design's raison d'etre.
RustyBug wrote:
I think that's a salient point ... how well a lens can be made that handles 25% of the frame well vs. what it takes to handle 95% of the frame well, wide open. Don't bog down on the numbers, but many a lens can benefit from stopping down. Lenses that don't need to be stopped down as much, offer a different kind of value. They cost more to make, but if you don't need to stop down, then you are essentially gaining stops of light.
Note: The Simera MTF's (iirc) are for 30 lp/mm, whereas the Leica is showing 40 lp/mm. So, the diff is greater than the charts (if folks assume them to be at similar lp/mm) suggest. The proof is in the pudding ... the first set of images, the diff is more than the MTF's might indicate (if they were the same lp/mm).
And, +1 "use case" can harness those diff's ... in both directions, when well mated to knowing the attributes of a given lens....Show more →
But with the Simera it is not just about sharpness. Both the Simera and the Lux are plenty sharp. But for me the Simera is actually much more pleasing in the OOF areas due to the 14 aperture blades. I can see myself owning both the Simera and a 50mm APO for this reason.
That's what I do, the APO for its subjects and this one for the regular usage. I'm looking forward to thoroughly exploring the Sim50's potential for OOF rendering and balls at all f-stops, and certainly f1.7 to f11. It's always a rude shock to see aperture blade shape residues in your bokeh.
I can enjoy all manner of shapes from lemons to wombat scats, but the 'stops signs' (most CY etc. lenses) and 'gear cogs' (Summilux) bug me a bit. Well OK, I really dislike them. It's easy to miss them at shot time too, in a quick image review. They jump up on the monitor later on.
The evenness of the Simera balls is very well done. Here is a comparo of the sister lens, 28mm, with one of the CY favorites from the olden times. And a center crop of a Sim50 image at f5.6 (a rushed 1/15s, so not sharp).
one of these is a cine-feature lens, the other is a classic vintage stills lens
I ordered the Simera-C 50mm in M mount. I intend to use it for stills on the M11 and various Sony bodies. I will also use it on Sony and RED systems for video/time lapse work. I will be curious to see if there is any appreciable difference in performance on the M11 vs Stock/Thin filter/Full Spectrum Sony bodies.
Fred's code still worked on the Thypoch site for free shipping, but there was no discount on the lens itself. B&H says the M Mount Simera-C lenses are expected to start shipping on 12-31, so hopefully the shipping timeline will be similar direct from Thypoch.
Dec 27, 2024 at 10:45 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
josh-himes wrote:
I ordered the Simera-C 50mm in M mount. I intend to use it for stills on the M11 and various Sony bodies. I will also use it on Sony and RED systems for video/time lapse work. I will be curious to see if there is any appreciable difference in performance on the M11 vs Stock/Thin filter/Full Spectrum Sony bodies.
Fred's code still worked on the Thypoch site for free shipping, but there was no discount on the lens itself. B&H says the M Mount Simera-C lenses are expected to start shipping on 12-31, so hopefully the shipping timeline will be similar direct from Thypoch. ...Show more →
Josh, do let us know how the lens performs. I am especially interested to know how it performs on stock vs. thin filter cameras.
Yes, I will try to conduct some tests. I will definitely want to figure it out for my own knowledge. I would like to try the 21mm Simera-C in M mount as well, but figured I would start slow with the 50 and see how it works for me.
. The 50 APO is just so good across the frame. I just compared the MTF charts for both, and I'm pretty much seeing exactly what they say. See below
