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Archive 2024 · R5 II vs. A1

  
 
robert_in_ca
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p.4 #1 · R5 II vs. A1


There’s a lot of people who would like to hear your experience, myself included.

arbitrage wrote:
That is true. Wish Fred had just gone in and deleted that first paragraph and let the actual comparison stand. I'd go edit that out myself if the post still was there.



Edited on Sep 02, 2024 at 11:22 AM · View previous versions



Sep 02, 2024 at 08:32 AM
swldstn
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p.4 #2 · R5 II vs. A1


Thanks to @ronno I’ve joined this thread. Had talked about the R5Ii replacing one of my two A1’s on the Sony forum. I’m a dual system shooter and owner with Canon EOS R5 and Sony 2 x A1, A7RV, and compact C bodies for travel. I read both forums regularly. I also for a year owned the Z9 and only its size, with no Z8 at the time, had me leave the system.

I’ve been thinking of selling one of A1 and the EOS R5 and buying an R5 Mark II. Still might since I like having both systems and have an excellent lens selection of RF L and Sony G|GM|GMII lenses but there are basic differences. If wanting to use a prime at 50mm and wider or travel light I use Sony.
My Canon RF glass covers 50mm to 200mm plus the RF 100-500mm. 10 lenses in total. My Sony glass covers me for 12mm to 600mm.

Sony is definitely my travel camera system of choice with the A7CR and A7CII and newer compact zoom and prime lenses from both Sony and Sigma. Something I can’t accomplish with Canon in my opinion. Also, since I no longer shoot sports on either system the 5 family of bodies at 45 Mpixels now have held my interest even though I like using a grip like the ones I have for my R5 and for my Sony A1’s and A7x family of bodies that are not “compact”.

My renewed interest in the R5 Mark II is for wildlife and BIF we’re I want greater than 40 Mpixels and pre-capture with RAW. That’s a personal bias even though for years I used 24 Mpixel cameras for that as well. If I sell one of the A1’s and the R5 I can purchase the R5 Mark II if I can now find one. Are there any available anywhere?



Sep 02, 2024 at 08:45 AM
AmbientMike
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p.4 #3 · R5 II vs. A1


Oh my completely factual post got deleted *sob*sob* Of course it contained politics, which pretty much always gets deleted on here. Kind of like name calling.

My freedom of speech has been violtated!!

(To be clear, I didn't think the other post of mine should have been deleted, but the one that had been here contained an obvious political reference)

Edited on Sep 02, 2024 at 04:06 PM · View previous versions



Sep 02, 2024 at 12:06 PM
armd
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p.4 #4 · R5 II vs. A1


arbitrage wrote:
I had a great day with the R5II and 100-500 yesterday. I'm not going to bother going into details of my thoughts comparing it to the A1 as I see my original comparison was censored and deleted so obviously this forum doesn't support free speech and people don't value my thoughts (at least whomever reported that post).

Have fun out there guys, enjoy your gear of choice. You will get the shots you want with any of the top gear these days. Just need to learn the system you choose in depth and make it work in your hands. Probably best
...Show more

You will get the shots you want with any of the top gear these days. Just need to learn the system you choose in depth and make it work in your hands. Probably best to chase the lens lineup you want over the cameras.

If only. The AF system of the Nikon is still behind that of Canon and Sony and anyone who claims otherwise hasn't used all three. While I love my PF lenses for their size, price, weight, and performance, the truth is the Z8's(Z9) AF system is just not up to par. Unfortunately, the Z series lenses can't work on either the RF or E mount, otherwise I would have the ultimate blended system. My only hope is that Nikon wakes up and produces a body with AF in the class of Canon/Sony or Canon starts producing RF, PF like lenses (highly doubtful).



Sep 02, 2024 at 12:31 PM
ronno
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p.4 #5 · R5 II vs. A1


The AF system of the Nikon is still behind that of Canon and Sony and anyone who claims otherwise hasn't used all three. While I love my PF lenses for their size, price, weight, and performance, the truth is the Z8's(Z9) AF system is just not up to par.

Agreed - I sold my Z8 (AF issues) and about to sell my A1 as well - R5 II is just better now IMO.

Though the Canon needs a firmware update as there are some glitches in the current version 1.0.0.



Sep 02, 2024 at 01:06 PM
robert_in_ca
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p.4 #6 · R5 II vs. A1


armd wrote:
You will get the shots you want with any of the top gear these days. Just need to learn the system you choose in depth and make it work in your hands. Probably best to chase the lens lineup you want over the cameras.

If only. The AF system of the Nikon is still behind that of Canon and Sony and anyone who claims otherwise hasn't used all three. While I love my PF lenses for their size, price, weight, and performance, the truth is the Z8's(Z9) AF system is just not up to par. Unfortunately, the Z series lenses can't
...Show more

Having shot all three system (all top of the line bodies and glass) I agree that Canon and Sony AF is better than Nikon. I've noticed if the subject isn’t taking up most of the sensor there's a lack of clarity around the eyes and overall with the Nikon. If the subject is taking up most of the sensor then it's a wash between the systems. Nikon's strength is its long lens selection (which is excellent) and its weakness is its AF and subject recognition algorithms.



Sep 02, 2024 at 01:29 PM
arbitrage
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p.4 #7 · R5 II vs. A1


swldstn wrote:
If I sell one of the A1’s and the R5 I can purchase the R5 Mark II if I can now find one. Are there any available anywhere?


I think some smaller stores in the US may still have a body or two in stock but you'd need to start calling around. I think some of the kits are still available where you could just sell off the kit lens or maybe a lens you'd have some use for. B&H still lists the kit with the 24-105/4 as In Stock.

There is no stock outside of the US from what I can gather reading on a few different forums.

Canon has announced it could take over 6 months for new orders now to be fulfilled.



Sep 02, 2024 at 01:45 PM
arbitrage
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p.4 #8 · R5 II vs. A1


Rudy Pohl wrote:
Can you repost a new version of your original comparison please? I missed your first post before it got nuked... I'd really like to read your opinion. Thanks.
Rudy



Here it is minus the few controversial lines that probably got it deleted. My opinion really hasn't changed much after my second round with it in much better light. I have a bit better idea of how it does for BIF now. I'll maybe write some more details later. All positive stuff though.

Arbitrage wrote:
"We need to know what your main interests are. Even down to the basics of stills vs video. But more importantly the subjects. Birds and wildlife, sports, portraits, landscapes??
As you can already see from a number of the replies it can vary a lot depending on these things. Not one camera dominates the other for every subject.

If you want some opinions in regards to bird photography and general operation of the R5II vs A1 I have shot them both but I won't talk towards BIF photography just yet. I should have another chance to shoot BIF in better light next weekend with the R5II and form some better opinions.

Here are some bullet points of R5II pros for me over the A1:
* Great price point for what you get
* 30FPS with precapture with a stacked sensor that seems fast enough for freezing hummer wings (but as pointed out in Ron's video still is too slow to avoid leaning lines in the backgrounds during fast pans)
* Best in the business bird subject detection for non-BIF
* Better IBIS/IS
* Better grip material, nice top LCD

That said, even if the R5II turns out to have as good or better BIF AF than the A1 (typically not related to BEAF on any of these cameras) I would still choose the A1 for a few key reasons:
* I can take control of the camera and make it do what I want it to....this comes down to ergonomics of the back buttons, number of programable right side back buttons, top dials, 4 exposure wheels, feel in the hand and most importantly the array of things I can program onto those buttons. The amount of customization and control is just way above what Canon (and even more so Nikon) has to offer.
* Zebra in stills...I seriously won't give this up no matter what another camera can do in other areas
* Programmability of the AF and the interaction of how AF modes and tracking and Eye-AF can work together
* Sony lens selection as it stands today for birds

I'll also add a couple quick notes about the Z8 people brought up....having owned the Z9 twice and shot the Z8, all I will say is for bird photography you buy a Z8 or Z9 because you are after PF or TC glass from Nikon. PERIOD. There is nothing in those cameras that stands above Sony and Canon for my type of bird photography. They are at best equal and usually worse in every metric I can think of especially the controls and customization."



Sep 02, 2024 at 01:49 PM
Rudy Pohl
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p.4 #9 · R5 II vs. A1


Thanks, much appreciated.
Rudy



Sep 02, 2024 at 02:02 PM
cpe1991
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p.4 #10 · R5 II vs. A1


Thanks Geoff!


Sep 02, 2024 at 02:10 PM
swldstn
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p.4 #11 · R5 II vs. A1


arbitrage wrote:
Here it is minus the few controversial lines that probably got it deleted. My opinion really hasn't changed much after my second round with it in much better light. I have a bit better idea of how it does for BIF now. I'll maybe write some more details later. All positive stuff though.

Arbitrage wrote:
"We need to know what your main interests are. Even down to the basics of stills vs video. But more importantly the subjects. Birds and wildlife, sports, portraits, landscapes??
As you can already see from a number of the replies it can vary a lot depending on these
...Show more

Appreciate the follow up. I will look to see what I can find for R5 Mark II stock. Obviously this is more of a want than need so if I can’t find one I will easily make do with my two A1’s. Hopefully my repost will preserve your thought for others. Take care.



Sep 02, 2024 at 02:31 PM
armd
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p.4 #12 · R5 II vs. A1


robert_in_ca wrote:
Having shot all three system (all top of the line bodies and glass) I agree that Canon and Sony AF is better than Nikon. I've noticed if the subject isn’t taking up most of the sensor there's a lack of clarity around the eyes and overall with the Nikon. If the subject is taking up most of the sensor then it's a wash between the systems. Nikon's strength is its long lens selection (which is excellent) and its weakness is its AF and subject recognition algorithms.


It's more than that and I've described the issues in multiple threads. On the positive side, I've found the Nikon cockpit recognition in the "airplanes" subject detection to be the best in the business. It recognizes warbirds from mustangs to F-35's to helio's without fail and it's better than Canon/Sony. I haven't shot enough motorsports to comment conclusively in that domain. For people, it does a fine job recognizing the eyes in SD, though it has a tendency to focus on the lash, eyebrow, cheek, nose, more so than either Sony/Canon. For sports it is reasonably comparable provided one masters the nuances of the AF system though with the new ball detect that Canon offers, it is likely behind. With respect to mammals, it doesn't tend to eye detect as far away as the other brands though it's about as accurate and all of these systems fail on some ungulates, elephants, hippos, alligators, etc. So, in this application the three systems are fairly comparable.

Nikon's AF appears to be tied to the EVF feed so proper exposure is critical to achieve best results. For perched birds, I find both Sony/Canon to do a better job of detecting and tracking the bird against busier backgrounds. Frequently, I have to change AF modes or do a handoff to follow the subject (typically a custom 1x1 followed by AA, etc.). For BIF against the sky, all three systems are nearly comparable though again Sony/Canon can detect the subject and in particular the eyes at a longer distance.

The greater distinctions for BIF occur when water is involved. It's very dependent on lighting, backgrounds, and other intangibles though some generalizations can be made. I find the Canon and Sony bodies detect and track better in nearly all phases when the subject is a bird striking through the water such as eagles, osprey, etc. For whatever reason, I've found the Nikon AF wanders off the subject for several frames before, during, and immediately after the strike with a great deal of regularity. It doesn't appear to be focusing on another more contrasty subject, rather it seems as though the predictive calculations are off. This occurs in spite of different AF modes and settings such as changing the AF to erratic. With respect to diving birds, where the subject hits the water and then emerges a short time later (think Pelicans, Kingfishers), they're reasonably similar. Again, depending on the lighting, of the three systems, the Canon seems to get fooled the least by bird reflections and generally stays firmly on the subject's eye. Both Nikon and Sony are a bit less fastidious this way though I suspect that this could be an easy firmware update.

Now, the disclaimer, namely these are a few of my observations after several years' experience with all three systems and it isn't meant to be an endorsement/indictment of any particular brand. Your experience may differ depending on the lenses, lighting, subject, experience, or a myriad of factors. No system is perfect and they all have strengths and weaknesses from price, ergonomics, size, weight, and other intangibles. In the final analysis, the user is the arbiter of what is best for him/herself.




Sep 02, 2024 at 03:43 PM
robert_in_ca
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p.4 #13 · R5 II vs. A1


armd wrote:
It's more than that and I've described the issues in multiple threads. On the positive side, I've found the Nikon cockpit recognition in the "airplanes" subject detection to be the best in the business. It recognizes warbirds from mustangs to F-35's to helio's without fail and it's better than Canon/Sony. I haven't shot enough motorsports to comment conclusively in that domain. For people, it does a fine job recognizing the eyes in SD, though it has a tendency to focus on the lash, eyebrow, cheek, nose, more so than either Sony/Canon. For sports it is reasonably comparable provided one masters
...Show more

I don't shoot BIF so my comment is based on shooting primarily big cats and other mammals in Eastern and Southern Africa. So in this regard, even fast moving mammals like cheetahs, wild dogs, etc. with my Z9 + 600TC (and before that my 400TC) the images are sharp. But again only if they're taking up a good portion of the sensor. With that said, as I've stated in other threads, the Nikon requires a lot more dialing in than either Canon or Sony. Currently I am testing out the A9iii and there's no doubt about it, the subject recognition algorithms are great--I even shot with the R1 which is wonderful as well. This is the weakness of the Z system and something that Nikon really needs to work on.



Sep 02, 2024 at 11:17 PM
groob
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p.4 #14 · R5 II vs. A1



armd wrote:
It's more than that and I've described the issues in multiple threads. On the positive side, I've found the Nikon cockpit recognition in the "airplanes" subject detection to be the best in the business. It recognizes warbirds from mustangs to F-35's to helio's without fail and it's better than Canon/Sony. I haven't shot enough motorsports to comment conclusively in that domain. For people, it does a fine job recognizing the eyes in SD, though it has a tendency to focus on the lash, eyebrow, cheek, nose, more so than either Sony/Canon. For sports it is reasonably comparable provided one masters
...Show more

I only shoot Nikon, so can’t compare. But I have no AF issues whatsoever. Took thousands of photos in Costa Rica this summer and barely had any out of focus. And I have no problem with BiF, including ducks landing and taking off, which you’d think would re-create your issue with eagles and ospreys. I literally put the camera in AA with subject recognition and don’t touch it for 99% of subjects. If it has trouble, which it almost never does, I switch to 3D or single point, and it works perfectly. The literal two times I didn’t use AA in Costa Rica were shooting howler monkeys and a turtle. Not surprisingly, AA in bird mode didn’t detect those all that well. Switched to 3D for the monkeys and single point for the turtle. Problems solved. And by switch, I mean that I hit a button that was programmed to those modes.

It’s also worth mentioning that another Nikon user shoots the same subjects you do in the same location and has no autofocus issues, as detailed on BCG. So, statements like Nikon’s AF isn’t up to snuff are dramatically overblown. If you can’t get a subject in focus, it’s not the camera that’s the issue.

Finally, this seems to just be me, but what in the world are people doing with all the customization? Outside of assigning a few buttons different AF modes, I just shoot in manual and change my settings as appropriate with the buttons assigned to those tasks by default. It’s unfathomable to me that more is needed. Mirrorless bodies do all kinds of cool things, but they didn’t change the exposure triangle.



Sep 02, 2024 at 11:45 PM
robert_in_ca
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p.4 #15 · R5 II vs. A1


arbitrage wrote:
I'll also add a couple quick notes about the Z8 people brought up....having owned the Z9 twice and shot the Z8, all I will say is for bird photography you buy a Z8 or Z9 because you are after PF or TC glass from Nikon. PERIOD."


This is the single reason why I moved over to Nikon 2 years ago I got the 400TC that I just sold. Now that I am selling my 600TC it's why I am looking at possibly switching to a different system.



Sep 03, 2024 at 09:47 AM
armd
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p.4 #16 · R5 II vs. A1


robert_in_ca wrote:
I don't shoot BIF so my comment is based on shooting primarily big cats and other mammals in Eastern and Southern Africa. So in this regard, even fast moving mammals like cheetahs, wild dogs, etc. with my Z9 + 600TC (and before that my 400TC) the images are sharp. But again only if they're taking up a good portion of the sensor. With that said, as I've stated in other threads, the Nikon requires a lot more dialing in than either Canon or Sony. Currently I am testing out the A9iii and there's no doubt about it, the subject recognition
...Show more

My experience has been similar, namely for four legged mammals, the Nikon AF system is pretty comparable to the other systems.



Sep 03, 2024 at 02:51 PM
armd
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p.4 #17 · R5 II vs. A1


groob wrote:
I only shoot Nikon, so can’t compare. But I have no AF issues whatsoever. Took thousands of photos in Costa Rica this summer and barely had any out of focus. And I have no problem with BiF, including ducks landing and taking off, which you’d think would re-create your issue with eagles and ospreys. I literally put the camera in AA with subject recognition and don’t touch it for 99% of subjects. If it has trouble, which it almost never does, I switch to 3D or single point, and it works perfectly. The literal two times I didn’t use AA
...Show more

I’ve shot all three systems under similar lighting and other conditions and have produced my observations based on the most recent firmware. There are some favorable attributes and some less so. If your experience or those you know have differed, so be it. I’ve validated my findings against other respectable people in the business, namely Mark Smith, Jan Wegener, Art Morris, etc. You are welcome to email them and ask them what they think of Nikon’s AF system. Finally, if you’re happy with the current system, then enjoy your blessings.



Sep 03, 2024 at 03:00 PM
Cliff L.
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p.4 #18 · R5 II vs. A1


armd wrote:
My experience has been similar, namely for four legged mammals, the Nikon AF system is pretty comparable to the other systems.


Has Nikon fixed the annoying issue with the second frame of almost every sequence being slightly out of focus with stationary subjects?



Sep 04, 2024 at 11:20 AM
groob
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p.4 #19 · R5 II vs. A1




molson wrote:
Has Nikon fixed the annoying issue with the second frame of almost every sequence being slightly out of focus with stationary subjects?


Literally never happened once to me.



Sep 04, 2024 at 02:28 PM
ronno
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p.4 #20 · R5 II vs. A1


A1 HLG vs R5 II CLOG2 (screenshot from video still)
Comparing these because I'd rather not have to deal with log if I don't have to.
These files can be processed a million different ways, but I am seeing more detail, way less noise, and seemingly as much DR is the A1 HLG (non-log) file as the R5 II CLOG2 files. Still testing of course...
Discrepancies in red tones etc are due to my messing around in Resolve.









Sep 05, 2024 at 02:37 PM
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