p.1 #1 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
I’ve always liked the 6x6 format, which is why my film cameras are the Mamiya 6 and a Bronica 6x6 setup.
I’m not totally convinced of the film workflow, though. Sometimes I’m fine with it and sometimes the hassle holds me back. It also makes me only shoot B&W film, since the hassle and costs increase with color.
My Mamiya setup is worth about $3,000, which is enough to ditch it and get a digital setup that would deliver high resolution when shooting square. I have the feeling, however, that only the 100mp cameras would still result in high resolution after a square crop.
I have no issue getting a Fuji GFX100s, but wouldn’t like bulky lenses (the Mamiya lenses are tiny for the format). I assume, though, that with the crop I could use adapted FF lenses.
Am I missing something (other than the nice tactile experience of shooting film cameras)?
p.1 #2 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
Do you actually need high resolution? I sometimes square-crop my 24 megapixel Sony A7iii images and they look fine, but I don't do huge prints or anything else where high resolution is necessary. It depends on your needs; the Sony A7r-series cameras would give you more resolution while allowing you to use smaller full-frame lenses.
p.1 #3 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
I was a long term user of Hasselblad V series cameras shooting 6x6 film. Still love the square format and now often shoot or crop square from my Nikon Z7 files. The resulting images are used when printing 15"x15" images on A2 and are the equal or better than when printing from the best film drumscans.
As much as I loved those old Blads I wouldn't want to turn the clock back.
A link below to my 'Dark Times' series, all square format, all Nikon Z7.
p.1 #4 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
Square out of the GFX 100’s is 75mp — which is a lot depending upon your subject matter and how large you want to print. The raw file is glorious to work with.
To be clear, any of the 3:4 formats cropped square will net you 75% of the sensor mp count. Any 2:3 sensor cropped square will net you 67% of the total mp count.
p.1 #5 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
Hasselblad X1D II or X2D
Depending on your focal length / aperture of choice, the lens size isn't terrible, and you're at the 4:3 starting point, with the 44x33, cropping you into the 33x33 (same as GFX) your 1:1 format. The in hand feel of the Hassy trumps the Fuji (imo).
On the flip side is M43, starting you at the 4:3 format, so again the crop for the composition is less than when starting with the 3:2 format of a FF.
Personally, I'm a 4:3 fan, so from FF 3:2 (36x24) > 4:3 (32x24) isnt' as hard a crop as from 3:2 to 1:1 (24x24), regarding how many pixels you're tossing and how much diff the vf comp is from final crop comp.
The Hassy and Fuji both start with the 4:3, leading you into 33x33, but if bulk of the Fuji is a put off for ya ... get your hands on a Hassy to try ... before you feel compelled to stick in FF territory.
The only "knock" of warning I have about the Hassy is the leaf shutter system. I totally dig on a leaf shutter ... the radial symmetry of forces (vs. linear of focal plane) keep the vibes down lower (Q series also uses leaf) for hand held / long exposure / etc.
The caveat for the "knock" is that if you do want to use adapted lenses (part of my overall plan) to keep the size weight in a different realm ... you don't have a focal plane shutter in the Hassy, so with no leaf shutter in the adapted lens, you're only shutter option is the electronic shutter. Which, in turn has its own issues (may or may not be an issue for you) depending on what / how you're shooting.
If you're mostly using native leaf shutter Hassy glass, then the issue of electronic shutter isn't that much of a knock, as it is with adapted (e.g. M lenses, etc.). I had planned to use my investment in M glass mostly with my X1D II ... but, I've had to re-think that a bit. I'm out of the Hassy right now, and looked at the GFX, but the ergo didn't trip my trigger compared to the Hassy, so I'm exploring with an SL2-S right now. Hassy will likely work it's way back in down the road, with more emphasis on the native Hassy glass.
p.1 #6 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
One other comment. IMHO, much of the classic 6x6 film look came from the natural vignette falloff that 6x6 lenses of the day generated; they were designed to be cropped down to a standard 4:5 aspect ratio of the time, which trimmed a lot of the corner defects out. You shot square, especially TLR cameras, and cropped to landscape or portrait 4:5 from the neg. The finders even had lines on them for that framing purpose. I only point this out because square on the GFX cameras has an IC just slightly larger than standard Fx, 47mm compared to 43mm minimum for Fx, and so many Fx lenses adapted to the GFX and shot square will render quite similarly to classic 6x6 of the day. Just FWIW
p.1 #8 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
Like the OP, I too like the square format a lot and shoot Mamiya 6 and Hasselblad 501 when using film.
I’ve tried to use the GFX 100s and the 45/2.8 as a subsitute for the 75-80mm focal length on the film bodies. But I really dislike the 100s (while the original 50s felt much better to me).
Ideally I’d swap my Fuji kit for a Hasselblad XD body and 55mm lens and be done with it. Not loving the price difference though.
p.1 #9 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
sputnik wrote:
Like the OP, I too like the square format a lot and shoot Mamiya 6 and Hasselblad 501 when using film.
I’ve tried to use the GFX 100s and the 45/2.8 as a subsitute for the 75-80mm focal length on the film bodies. But I really dislike the 100s (while the original 50s felt much better to me).
Ideally I’d swap my Fuji kit for a Hasselblad XD body and 55mm lens and be done with it. Not loving the price difference though.
What was it specifically about the 100s/45 combo you didn’t like?
p.1 #10 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
RustyBug wrote:
Hasselblad X1D II or X2D
Depending on your focal length / aperture of choice, the lens size isn't terrible, and you're at the 4:3 starting point, with the 44x33, cropping you into the 33x33 (same as GFX) your 1:1 format. The in hand feel of the Hassy trumps the Fuji (imo).
On the flip side is M43, starting you at the 4:3 format, so again the crop for the composition is less than when starting with the 3:2 format of a FF.
Personally, I'm a 4:3 fan, so from FF 3:2 (36x24) > 4:3 (32x24) isnt' as hard a crop as from 3:2 to 1:1 (24x24), regarding how many pixels you're tossing and how much diff the vf comp is from final crop comp.
The Hassy and Fuji both start with the 4:3, leading you into 33x33, but if bulk of the Fuji is a put off for ya ... get your hands on a Hassy to try ... before you feel compelled to stick in FF territory.
The only "knock" of warning I have about the Hassy is the leaf shutter system. I totally dig on a leaf shutter ... the radial symmetry of forces (vs. linear of focal plane) keep the vibes down lower (Q series also uses leaf) for hand held / long exposure / etc.
The caveat for the "knock" is that if you do want to use adapted lenses (part of my overall plan) to keep the size weight in a different realm ... you don't have a focal plane shutter in the Hassy, so with no leaf shutter in the adapted lens, you're only shutter option is the electronic shutter. Which, in turn has its own issues (may or may not be an issue for you) depending on what / how you're shooting.
If you're mostly using native leaf shutter Hassy glass, then the issue of electronic shutter isn't that much of a knock, as it is with adapted (e.g. M lenses, etc.). I had planned to use my investment in M glass mostly with my X1D II ... but, I've had to re-think that a bit. I'm out of the Hassy right now, and looked at the GFX, but the ergo didn't trip my trigger compared to the Hassy, so I'm exploring with an SL2-S right now. Hassy will likely work it's way back in down the road, with more emphasis on the native Hassy glass.
p.1 #11 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
RoamingScott wrote:
What is "high resolution"? A 45mp FF 3:2 sensor in 1x1 results in a 30mp file. 61mp turns to 40.5.
That's always the key question. I have a 50R and could in principle just use that or my R5 (and keep the Mamiya 6, which seems to be a camera people always regret selling).
p.1 #12 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
sputnik wrote:
Like the OP, I too like the square format a lot and shoot Mamiya 6 and Hasselblad 501 when using film.
I’ve tried to use the GFX 100s and the 45/2.8 as a subsitute for the 75-80mm focal length on the film bodies. But I really dislike the 100s (while the original 50s felt much better to me).
Ideally I’d swap my Fuji kit for a Hasselblad XD body and 55mm lens and be done with it. Not loving the price difference though.
What don't you like about the 100s?
I'd love to get the X2D but even as a Leica owner, Hasselblad prices are a bridge too far for me.
p.1 #13 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
johnvanr wrote:
What don't you like about the 100s?
I'd love to get the X2D but even as a Leica owner, Hasselblad prices are a bridge too far for me.
I do not like the ”modern dslr” ergonomics of the 100s. I much prefer the XT/X-Pro design ethos with classic dials. That’s why the original 50s felt better to me, even though it was bulkier and slower. Also don’t like the size of the 100 MP files. 50 MP is plenty for me.
I’ve only handled the original X1D briefly, but I really enjoyed the feel of the machined metal body. I know it has been widely criticized for beeing sluggish and unresponsive, but I have not shot it enough. Maybe a used X1D II and 55mm lens could be an option.
p.1 #14 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
sputnik wrote:
I do not like the ”modern dslr” ergonomics of the 100s. I much prefer the XT/X-Pro design ethos with classic dials. That’s why the original 50s felt better to me, even though it was bulkier and slower. Also don’t like the size of the 100 MP files. 50 MP is plenty for me.
I’ve only handled the original X1D briefly, but I really enjoyed the feel of the machined metal body. I know it has been widely criticized for beeing sluggish and unresponsive, but I have not shot it enough. Maybe a used X1D II and 55mm lens could be an option. ...Show more →
At 50mp, cropped in to 1:1, I don’t have that much resolution left, though.
I hear you on the ergonomics, but I find that in real life it doesn’t matter that much.
It’s scary how much the prices for the X1D have gone down. Makes you wonder about buying a newer Hasselblad.
p.1 #15 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
I also like square format and have used a Hasselblad CFV-16 digital back (true square format) for about 10 years now. It has a 16mp 36x36 CCD sensor developed by Kodak. While the image quality is still excellent despite low pixel counts, it's an ancient digital back and not flexible at all with max ISO at 400. So now I don't really use it often at all. I only take it with me when I use 6x6 film Hasselblad V system since they are fully commutable.
For mini-MF digital mirrorless bodies, The Hasselblad X1D/X2D with the XCD 45P lens will be the most compact system (just a bit larger than a Leica M with a Summilux lens). The images quality is excellent for travel and cityscape. The XCD 45P is an excellent lens overall but it's f/4 lens. I have taken this combo for a few city trip in Europe. Personally, I think the Fuji GFX100s with GF45/2.8 lens is a more flexible combo. It's larger than X1D/X2D combo but the GF45/2.8 is a better lens and more flexible with F/2.8.
p.1 #16 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
ocean2059 wrote:
I also like square format and have used a Hasselblad CFV-16 digital back (true square format) for about 10 years now. It has a 16mp 36x36 CCD sensor developed by Kodak. While the image quality is still excellent despite low pixel counts, it's an ancient digital back and not flexible at all with max ISO at 400. So now I don't really use it often at all. I only take it with me when I use 6x6 film Hasselblad V system since they are fully commutable.
For mini-MF digital mirrorless bodies, The Hasselblad X1D/X2D with the XCD 45P lens will be the most compact system (just a bit larger than a Leica M with a Summilux lens). The images quality is excellent for travel and cityscape. The XCD 45P is an excellent lens overall but it's f/4 lens. I have taken this combo for a few city trip in Europe. Personally, I think the Fuji GFX100s with GF45/2.8 lens is a more flexible combo. It's larger than X1D/X2D combo but the GF45/2.8 is a better lens and more flexible with F/2.8....Show more →
I’d probably use a Fuji with M-mount lenses, considering I don’t have to worry about the edges.
p.1 #17 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
You won't go wrong with any of the 50 or 100mp 33x44 sensors, used prices are well down in the past few years, with gfx 50 around $1500, x1d around 2k and 3k for the gfx 100. GFX has a much better selection of lens mount adapters, but xcd adapters are there for many popular lenses.
The Hasselblad Natural Color System, tethering and amazing user experience is superior, but with a color checker and set-it and forget-it with the Fuji menus the Fuji will create excellent images. Working with 16 bit raw files is a treat. Changing the exif of the 'make' tag will let you slip hasselblad raws into Capture One, but you will lose the tetrahedral Phocus NCS color management if you import to C1. You'll likely need additional storage space for storing and editing 100mb (50mp) or 200mb (100mp) raw files.
p.1 #18 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
johnvanr wrote:
I’d probably use a Fuji with M-mount lenses, considering I don’t have to worry about the edges.
The 33x33 mm frame is quite a bit larger diagonally than 24x36 though. And M lenses generally have a very small image circle, so you can run into pretty severe vignetting still. Especially if you're gonna use IBIS too.
Edit: Also, many M lenses have a very short exit pupil distance. That's not gonna give the best results with the very thick sensor stack of the GFX cameras. I'd adapt FF SLR lenses instead.
p.1 #20 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
Makten wrote:
The 33x33 mm frame is quite a bit larger diagonally than 24x36 though. And M lenses generally have a very small image circle, so you can run into pretty severe vignetting still. Especially if you're gonna use IBIS too.
Edit: Also, many M lenses have a very short exit pupil distance. That's not gonna give the best results with the very thick sensor stack of the GFX cameras. I'd adapt FF SLR lenses instead.
FYI, 33x33 diagonal is 47mm, while 24x36 is 43.5mm. Why I mentioned above many Fx lenses will cover pretty well with little or no cropping.
... the radial symmetry of forces (vs. linear of focal plane) keep the vibes down lower (Q series also uses leaf) for hand held / long exposure / etc.
