p.2 #1 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
KLaban wrote:
Johnvanr, it would be useful if you identified your intended output.
I’d like to make more prints, but just in general I’d like to focus my photography on several projects. In this case, all images would be produced in square format. I don’t necessarily need a ton of resolution, but I’d like to be able to consistently crop to 1:1 and still have enough resolution left to make large prints if/when I feel the images are worth it.
I currently have a bunch of cameras, with 60MP the highest resolution (but a Leica), followed by a GFX 50R and a Canon R5. Maybe that’s already enough.
I do regularly set my lower-resolution cameras to square format, but without the intention of ever printing large.
p.2 #2 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
johnvanr wrote:
I’d like to make more prints, but just in general I’d like to focus my photography on several projects. In this case, all images would be produced in square format. I don’t necessarily need a ton of resolution, but I’d like to be able to consistently crop to 1:1 and still have enough resolution left to make large prints if/when I feel the images are worth it.
I currently have a bunch of cameras, with 60MP the highest resolution (but a Leica), followed by a GFX 50R and a Canon R5. Maybe that’s already enough.
I do regularly set my lower-resolution cameras to square format, but without the intention of ever printing large....Show more →
p.2 #3 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
gear-nut wrote:
FYI, 33x33 diagonal is 47mm, while 24x36 is 43.5mm. Why I mentioned above many Fx lenses will cover pretty well with little or no cropping.
Yes, "quite a bit larger", just as I said. Enough to not work with every FF lens. Not even all SLR lenses, for example the OM 50/1.8 is crap on 33x33.
p.2 #4 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
johnvanr wrote:
I’d like to make more prints, but just in general I’d like to focus my photography on several projects. In this case, all images would be produced in square format. I don’t necessarily need a ton of resolution, but I’d like to be able to consistently crop to 1:1 and still have enough resolution left to make large prints if/when I feel the images are worth it.
I currently have a bunch of cameras, with 60MP the highest resolution (but a Leica), followed by a GFX 50R and a Canon R5. Maybe that’s already enough.
I do regularly set my lower-resolution cameras to square format, but without the intention of ever printing large....Show more →
I'd be quite happy to make prints from square 33 MP Z7 files on A1 paper using image upscaling software and post processing.
Aug 10, 2024 at 04:23 PM
AmbientMike Offline • • • • • • [X]
p.2 #5 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
johnvanr wrote:
I’ve always liked the 6x6 format, which is why my film cameras are the Mamiya 6 and a Bronica 6x6 setup.
I’m not totally convinced of the film workflow, though. Sometimes I’m fine with it and sometimes the hassle holds me back. It also makes me only shoot B&W film, since the hassle and costs increase with color.
My Mamiya setup is worth about $3,000, which is enough to ditch it and get a digital setup that would deliver high resolution when shooting square. I have the feeling, however, that only the 100mp cameras would still result in high resolution after a square crop.
I have no issue getting a Fuji GFX100s, but wouldn’t like bulky lenses (the Mamiya lenses are tiny for the format). I assume, though, that with the crop I could use adapted FF lenses.
Am I missing something (other than the nice tactile experience of shooting film cameras)?...Show more →
70% crop leaves slightly less than half the pixels (0.7x0.7=0.49). I don't think most of us consider that too big of a deal really.
In contrast, cropping ff 24x24 leaves 2/3 of the pixels, so I'm not sure it's hurting much. More pixels than 70% crop anyway. 33x44 it's even less of a crop, you'd have 75% of your pixels, probably not that bad only 86-87% crop
p.2 #7 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
I did this (square format) with a Panny S1R for a while. With 47MP to play with, the resulting photos were excellent. It's a heavy camera, though, but a great value.
Lately, I just use a Nikon Z5 and a Viltrox 20mm lens to get my "SWC" kick. The results with its 24MP are still better than most film setups can match.
p.2 #8 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
I've been shooting square with the GFX 50s and the original 100, using very old Canon FD lenses. My favorite is the 50mm f/1.4 FD SSC from circa 1970. But many 35mm lenses work with the GFX in square format.
Files from the 50s are over 6000x6000 pixels, which seems like enough for my uses, including large prints.
p.2 #9 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
I shoot 6x6 a bit and in terms of resolution I think you’ll be just fine with any FF/44x33 beyond 40mp.
For FF shot 1:1 the crop to 6x6 is 24/56= 0.43x
The Mamiya 6 lens equivalents are 21mm, 35mm and 65mm. You can match that quite nicely with a set of Sigma i-series primes (you won’t get quite as shallow DOF as with the 75mm f3.5 though, you need a 35mm f1.4 to match that). So a high resolution Sony or L-mount body would work nicely. For Sony (or Nikon) you could also build a lens set using the 35mm and 65mm APO from Voigtländer.
p.2 #10 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
If you want the whole *finder* 6x6 experience, nothing beats a 907x body. A Hoodman loupe completes the feel or make a quickie cardboard mask box. The *crop* instructions are sent to Lightroom. HB cameras don't play nice with C1 though, if that's your processor of choice. The other look down options do include the X2D and Fujis but none are the same.
Yes it's VERY expensive for the 907x/100C but if it's right for you it's THE camera to have. I'd personally stick with the smaller lenses. 28, 38, 45P and 55. Maybe stretch to a 90V. A 907x/100c with a small lens is ludicrously small for a larger then 35mm sensor camera. And it's an absolute hot to use. No need to talk about the files.
p.2 #11 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
gear-nut wrote:
Square out of the GFX 100’s is 75mp — which is a lot depending upon your subject matter and how large you want to print. The raw file is glorious to work with.
To be clear, any of the 3:4 formats cropped square will net you 75% of the sensor mp count. Any 2:3 sensor cropped square will net you 67% of the total mp count.
Thanks for working out the math. I had no idea that 3:2 sensors lose so much resolution after cropping. It's too bad there still aren't any 8K m4/3 sensors.
p.2 #12 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
flash wrote:
If you want the whole *finder* 6x6 experience, nothing beats a 907x body. A Hoodman loupe completes the feel or make a quickie cardboard mask box. The *crop* instructions are sent to Lightroom. HB cameras don't play nice with C1 though, if that's your processor of choice. The other look down options do include the X2D and Fujis but none are the same.
Yes it's VERY expensive for the 907x/100C but if it's right for you it's THE camera to have. I'd personally stick with the smaller lenses. 28, 38, 45P and 55. Maybe stretch to a 90V. A 907x/100c with a small lens is ludicrously small for a larger then 35mm sensor camera. And it's an absolute hot to use. No need to talk about the files.
p.2 #13 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
johnvanr, you haven't really told us what it is you are going to shoot and how you are going to shoot it.
The principle reason I can use the Z7 rather than something meatier is it's strictly very careful tripod work - almost like copy work - using exceptional lenses.
In an ideal world I'd be using a 907x/100c for my 'Dark Times' series but if I did I'd enter my own dark times and impending divorce.
p.2 #14 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
KLaban wrote:
johnvanr, you haven't really told us what it is you are going to shoot and how you are going to shoot it.
The principle reason I can use the Z7 rather than something meatier is it's strictly very careful tripod work - almost like copy work - using exceptional lenses.
In an ideal world I'd be using a 907x/100c for my 'Dark Times' series but if I did I'd enter my own dark times and impending divorce.
That's because I don't really know yet. I'm thinking of building up a series of images of old bunkers and flak towers from WWII, now that I'm dividing my time between Vienna, where they have several flak towers and a part of Holland where there are still bunkers sitting in the landscape, including a few surrounding the house my mother grew up in. I could build from there, visiting other places in Europe. I have no clue how feasible this is, but if I do it, I want it all to have the same kind of feel and square B&W feels like a good way to go.
The other part is that I just like 6x6, but that I'm not sure the Mamiya 6 is a justified system in terms of how much use it would see. I sometimes put my low-res cameras on the square format, but you don't have much resolution left if you put a 20mp camera on a 1:1 crop.
But after reading these answers, it also seems my GFX 50R should be fine for the job. I was planning to sell that camera and the 63mm lens I have, but maybe I hold on to it and see how it works compared to the Mamiya, both in terms of output but also the joy of using it. And I could upgrade the 50R to the 100S next time I'm in the US, where used copies are much cheaper than here.
I could also use the R5, but then I lose more of the frame to the 1:1 crop.
p.2 #15 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
johnvanr wrote:
That's because I don't really know yet. I'm thinking of building up a series of images of old bunkers and flak towers from WWII, now that I'm dividing my time between Vienna, where they have several flak towers and a part of Holland where there are still bunkers sitting in the landscape, including a few surrounding the house my mother grew up in. I could build from there, visiting other places in Europe. I have no clue how feasible this is, but if I do it, I want it all to have the same kind of feel and square B&W feels like a good way to go.
The other part is that I just like 6x6, but that I'm not sure the Mamiya 6 is a justified system in terms of how much use it would see. I sometimes put my low-res cameras on the square format, but you don't have much resolution left if you put a 20mp camera on a 1:1 crop.
But after reading these answers, it also seems my GFX 50R should be fine for the job. I was planning to sell that camera and the 63mm lens I have, but maybe I hold on to it and see how it works compared to the Mamiya, both in terms of output but also the joy of using it. And I could upgrade the 50R to the 100S next time I'm in the US, where used copies are much cheaper than here.
I could also use the R5, but then I lose more of the frame to the 1:1 crop. ...Show more →
I'd roll with the GFX 50R until it no longer fits your needs.
As much as I like the Hassy, the 50R has always caught my eye (never shot one, though) a bit. For adapting M-lenses onto a 4:3, it might make a nicer combo (focal plane shutter). Since, you're shooting mostly architectural, the electronic shutter (and leaf) wouldn't be a deal breaker, either.
Now, I'm a bit curious the diff's between the 50R vs. the 1XD II for use with my own M' lenses.
p.2 #16 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
I have used Mamiya 645 lenses on my GFX cameras (50R/50SII/100S/100SII) with adapter for years without issue. Still even use the 645 300/5.6 on my M's with adapter from time to time.
I also use the Hassy V lens adapter on my CFV100 C and enjoy the experience with a nearly the full range old CF lenses.
p.2 #17 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
I don't get why people are calculating cropped file size. To get to 1x1 you will only be cropping in one dimension. You will still be able to print/view just as large as the smaller uncropped dimension would have allowed.
p.2 #18 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
So, thinking more about this, if I use my 50R, I have about 40MP in a square format, which is actually the same resolution that I get if I crop my Leica M11 images to a square in LR. Now, 40MP should be enough for just about anything and an in-camera crop is easier to frame the image with, but the Fuji also a lot of gear to carry for the same end result as a much smaller setup.
Things differ if I upgrade to a 100s, but does it then become overkill? I'm just thinking out loud, btw. I don't have an answer or a conclusion.
p.2 #19 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
Geoff D F wrote:
I don't get why people are calculating cropped file size. To get to 1x1 you will only be cropping in one dimension. You will still be able to print/view just as large as the smaller uncropped dimension would have allowed.
You lose a part of the frame when you crop, so you end up with less resolution to print with.
p.2 #20 · Best digital setup to shoot square format
johnvanr wrote:
You lose a part of the frame when you crop, so you end up with less resolution to print with.
Sort of ... if you consider your short side dimension is the same, the resolution is kinda the same. You just don't get the length. Now, if you enlarge to the size / PPI that the long side "would have allowed for", then yeah, you're lowering your resolution.
Easy Math
24MP
6000 x 4000 = 30x20 (200 PPI)
4000 x 4000 = 20x20 (200 PPI)
4000 x 4000 = 30x30 (133 PPI)
48MP
8000 x 6000 = 40x30 (200 PPI)
6000 x 6000 = 30x30 (200 PPI)
Enough to not work with every FF lens. Not even all SLR lenses, for example the OM 50/1.8 is crap on 33x33. 