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Archive 2024 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?

  
 
Ichinichi
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p.2 #1 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


What if I am willing to crop from 61mp to 20mp at the long end of the Sigma 28-45? Wouldn't I get 78mm FL?

Only problem is the Sigma 28-45/1.8 is hard to find used...and likely hard to sell if I decide to go another direction.



Jul 11, 2024 at 08:17 PM
chez
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p.2 #2 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?




Ichinichi wrote:
What if I am willing to crop from 61mp to 20mp at the long end of the Sigma 28-45? Wouldn't I get 78mm FL?

Only problem is the Sigma 28-45/1.8 is hard to find used...and likely hard to sell if I decide to go another direction.


The Sigma weighs too much for simple family pictures. Get either the Sony or Sigma 24-70 and just bump up the iso if need be.



Jul 11, 2024 at 08:32 PM
Ichinichi
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p.2 #3 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


But it's so much sharpererer. Not worth it? Or would my "crop the 45mm for up to 78mm" not work?

chez wrote:
The Sigma weighs too much for simple family pictures. Get either the Sony or Sigma 24-70 and just bump up the iso if need be.




Jul 11, 2024 at 08:46 PM
Palmguy
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p.2 #4 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


Ichinichi wrote:
But it's so much sharpererer. Not worth it? Or would my "crop the 45mm for up to 78mm" not work?



For "dad photographing dad things" work, I'd much rather have the 24-70GM2, which is extremely sharp FWIW.



Jul 11, 2024 at 09:02 PM
JD07
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p.2 #5 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


Ichinichi wrote:
But it's so much sharpererer. Not worth it? Or would my "crop the 45mm for up to 78mm" not work?



In the end, only you can say what is worth it to you. All gear involves trade-offs and the set of trade-offs which best suit one person aren't necessarily the set of trade-offs which best suit the next person.

For me, I would take one of the 24-70s over the 28-45, but that just reflects my preferences. For me, the size, weight and limited zoom range of the 28-45 make it less attractive to me than a 24-70 despite the 28-45 having a wider maximum aperture and apparently being a bit sharper. (I suppose I might consider a 28-45 in addition to a 24-70, to use when the wider maximum aperture was important to me. However, then the question would be whether I wanted to lug a 28-45 or one or two primes potentially with an even wider maximum aperture.)

As for cropping, in broad terms it should work. However, it is worth remembering that cropping means you are effectively using a smaller sensor than a full frame sensor, and that impacts image quality in the way that using a smaller sensor would, eg noise becomes more visible. So, crop an image from your 61mp full frame camera to the dimensions you would have got if you had used an APS-C sensor camera (and otherwise been the same place and used the same lens) and you will get similar image charasteristics (eg depth of field and noise) as if you had used an APS-C sensor camera rather than a full frame camera. That isn't necessarily something to worry about, of course. After all, cameras with sensors smaller than full frame can take fantastic images. However the point is that cropping isn't entirely free of impact on image quality, so that is one of the trade-offs you have to weigh up.

Edited on Jul 12, 2024 at 02:24 PM · View previous versions



Jul 11, 2024 at 09:17 PM
chez
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p.2 #6 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?




Ichinichi wrote:
But it's so much sharpererer. Not worth it? Or would my "crop the 45mm for up to 78mm" not work?



Do you really think you would notice the difference in sharpness in your prints or viewing through a phone? Surely if the Sony 24-70 is good enough for professional wedding photographers, it must be good enough for “dad photos”.

Don’t underestimate lugging the 28-45 around with you as you chase your family photos.



Jul 11, 2024 at 09:21 PM
Ichinichi
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p.2 #7 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


Ya, OK. I'm convinced. Thank you everyone!


chez wrote:
Do you really think you would notice the difference in sharpness in your prints or viewing through a phone? Surely if the Sony 24-70 is good enough for professional wedding photographers, it must be good enough for “dad photos”.

Don’t underestimate lugging the 28-45 around with you as you chase your family photos.





Jul 11, 2024 at 09:32 PM
chiron
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p.2 #8 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


Ichinichi wrote:
Thank you to everyone who has helped me on my journey so far.

I'm just a dad. Meaning, it falls to me to take photos of dad things. So I'm looking for a system befitting a dad photographing dad things.

[Edit]
I think the most challenging environment this would shoot would be active toddlers indoors across a table or across a living room. They would in-action portrait shots. I want to be able to take maximum advantage of the a7rv AF at low light in closer quarters with enough sharpness that I can crop when I need or want.
[End edit]

Currently, the kit consists
...Show more

For Dad pictures, which are some of the most cherished and long-kept photographs made by anyone, I'd suggest that all you need is the Sony 24-50 f/2.8 G lens for $1100 new. It is a very high quality lens, small and light with beautiful rendering. It will cover most family situations. If you also want something longer for classical portraits, then add an 85 or 90 mm lens -- either Sony or Batis in 85mm or Sigma i series 90mm. This would be a smaller and more family and travel friendly kit than the others. Given your needs, I would consider selling your 70-200 GM II. Too large to carry easily, too intimidating when you point it at someone, and just not germane to your purposes.



Edited on Jul 12, 2024 at 06:53 AM · View previous versions



Jul 11, 2024 at 10:14 PM
Ichinichi
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p.2 #9 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


The 70-200 is for performances and other events where I'll be in the stands/bleachers/orchestra row K.

chiron wrote:
For Dad pictures, which are some of most cherished and long-kept photographs made by anyone, I'd suggest that all you need is the Sony 24-50 f/2.8 G lens for $1100 new. It is a very high quality lens, small and light with beautiful rendering. It will cover most family situations. If you also want something longer for classical portraits, then add an 85 or 90 mm lens -- either Sony or Batis in 85mm or Sigma i series 90mm. This would be a smaller and more family and travel friendly kit than the others. Given your needs, I would consider
...Show more



Jul 11, 2024 at 10:36 PM
NJPhotographer
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p.2 #10 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


The best lens in that range is the 24-70/2.8 GM II, but do you want another big & heavy lens? The 24-50 f/2.8 G is much easier to carry and does almost the same thing. I'd maybe add a 35/1.8 for low light.


Jul 11, 2024 at 11:23 PM
j4nu
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p.2 #11 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


Ichinichi wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm having a dumb moment here.

The first two are L: 45mm R: cropped 24mm

The second two are what? How do you make the 45mm FL into 24mm FL?


It's confusing, but you can look at % of each side .
The first comparison has 45mm shot on the left viewed at 100% on my screen and the 24mm zoomed in to match, the second comparison has on the left 24mm shot viewed at 100% on my screen and 45mm to match.
These are crops on 50mpx.

IMHO, until you try the range, you can't really tell if you need 24-70 or 28-45 will be enough.
I'd say that if you don't plan on adding fast primes in that range, 28-45/1.8 is definitely worth a second thought as it's visibly faster (low-light + blur) than standard 2.8 zooms.

Edited on Jul 12, 2024 at 06:31 AM · View previous versions



Jul 12, 2024 at 01:46 AM
Choderboy
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p.2 #12 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


Don't worry about sharp.
For 'on stage' shots, you'll often be cropping so the sharpness of 70-200 is important.
For indoor stuff, almost every option is plenty sharp enough.

Look at some of the people shots with this old thing:
(Sony 55 1.8). Any not sharp enough?
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1607395/0

For more dollars, I'd consider a GM35 1.4 or GM50 1.4.
I know you are asking about zooms, but one of those 3 lenses is what I'd get.
35 1.4 probably my first choice.

Advantage with the 55 is just start shooting it and 70-200.
After some time, you will be able to make an informed decision on what would be your third lens.






Jul 12, 2024 at 05:19 AM
GHarris
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p.2 #13 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


I'll try to elaborate a bit on why I suggested the 28-45 Sigma.

In reading this thread, I see you've already kind of touched on some of my points.

For one... regarding range... with your A7Rv, it kind of *is* a 70mm lens, too - as you've noticed. An APS-C crop, which there's plenty of room for on that camera, gets you to around 70mm, at about, or just wider than, an f/2.8 full-frame-equivalent aperture.

At every focal length short of the full 70mm APS-C crop, it's all gravy. You have more aperture.

The more relevant criticism, regarding range, concerns the wide end. You can't crop to a wider image. But... well, I don't see the aesthetic appeal in wide-angle photos of people, personally. Maybe that's just me. But I think that beyond a certain wideness, it just looks worse/wrong. My own cutoff, if I can manage it, is around 35mm. Wider works less badly for pictures of very young infants where the distortion is sometimes less noticeable, or even adds cuteness, but otherwise I just don't like it. I would personally not miss the 24mm, if I were in your shoes, but it's a matter of preference and taste. I tend to take the view that if a shot of people needs 24mm it's not going to be a great shot anyway, and should be reconsidered or reframed for at least a slightly longer FL, but that's just me.

I think f/1.8 is a significant advantage over f/2.8. I've taken family photos in various indoor settings with both my 35mm f/2.8 ZA prime and my 55mm f/1.8 ZA prime, and the shots (of the same scene/event) from the latter just flat-out look better. Not because there's anything wrong with the former lens, they're both pretty good. Not just because of the longer focal length giving what is often a nicer look. But because indoor lighting is frequently genuinely bad, worse than our eyes notice, and you just get a nicer RAW file to work with out of the lowered ISOs produced by an f/1.8 shot in my experience. The end result is better. Everything has more pop.

At 28mm, at 35mm, at 45mm, it's just plain giving you nicer images. At most modest crops beyond 45mm, it's still better. At its longest crop to match a typical 24-70 f/2.8, it's about the same, at last/at worst. Your A7Rv is the best camera of all to be doing APS-C crops with. And those small pixels will love the added light-gathering of the f/1.8 aperture at most focal lengths in indoor environments.

The biggest criticism of all of the Sigma 28-45, and the one I can most reasonably see being the dealbreaker, is the size and weight. That's a matter of personal choice. Only you can know where you stand on that one. You might not yet be used to big lenses and camera bodies - you don't have the A7Rv yet (I think)?... it's a big, long-evolved version of the Sony full frame bodies (which used to be smaller in earlier generations), and for sure a big step up in size and weight from the a6300 you're used to. Perhaps you should do a quick sanity-check, when you have the A7Rv and 70-200 in hand, to see whether that kind of heft is a problem to you, to help inform your decision on whether you'd reject the Sigma.

Ichinichi wrote:
Only problem is the Sigma 28-45/1.8 is hard to find used...and likely hard to sell if I decide to go another direction.


You're right, you won't find one to buy used... but what makes you think it wouldn't sell, used? Especially if there aren't many used copies of it on the market yet



Jul 12, 2024 at 06:34 AM
tsdevine
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p.2 #14 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


The 28-45mm doesn't fit into any established mold right now. It's a stop and a third (did I do the math right?) faster than any of the f/2.8 zooms. Wide open I'm pretty sure it will outperform (or at least match) any of the f/1.8 primes. It's two thirds of a stop slower than the f/1.4 primes, but is very much in the ballpark of performance at shared apertures. So if you think of it has a prime, it has more range than other primes. I don't think it makes as much sense to compare it to f/2.8 zooms unless the extra speed isn't needed. The f/2.8 zooms win on FL flexibility, the 28-45 wins on speed.

It's a fairly large and heavy lens, less than 100g heavier (950g vs 886g) than the original 24-70 f/2.8 GM, but longer.

If size, weight, and portability are important factors....then it probably isn't a good fit. If having flexibility of f/1.8 at multiple FLs is an important factor, then there's almost nothing like it. (At least for Sony right now.)

Edited on Jul 12, 2024 at 07:29 AM · View previous versions



Jul 12, 2024 at 07:23 AM
tsdevine
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p.2 #15 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?



Yeah, the lens only started shipping on June 20th. You're not going to be seeing many used copies for sale. It's still in the return window for many places where you can purchase it.



Jul 12, 2024 at 07:27 AM
j4nu
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p.2 #16 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


tsdevine wrote:
The 28-45mm doesn't fit into any established mold right now. It's a stop and a third (did I do the math right?) faster than any of the f/2.8 zooms. Wide open I'm pretty sure it will outperform (or at least match) any of the f/1.8 primes. It's two thirds of a stop slower than the f/1.4 primes, but is very much in the ballpark of performance at shared apertures. So if you think of it has a prime, it has more range than other primes. I don't think it makes as much sense to compare it to f/2.8 zooms unless
...Show more

Yes, for me it's also primes vs 28-45 rather than 28-45 vs 24-70, due to the aperture and focal range difference...



Jul 12, 2024 at 07:48 AM
tschopp
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p.2 #17 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


Not trying to cause more confusion than clarity, but it seems like maybe the ultimate decision on what normal zoom is best for a person depends on size and weight. A couple years ago I was deciding between the Tamron 28-75 G2 and the Sigma 24-70 DN. I had them both for a year and chose the Tamron and sold the Sigma. The main reason to sell the Sigma was weight, size, and focus accuracy. The DN II has dropped some weight and has better motors, but is still bigger and heavier than the Tamron. The only thing I miss about the Sigma is 24mm.

So when I’m at a family get together what do I grab, most of the time it’s the 35GM or 50/1.2GM. The 2 stops of light makes a huge difference in the image. If I want more focal length flexibility I will grab the Tamron, but it is not frequent. The next step in the argument made above for the Sigma 28-45/1.8 is a prime.

You could also go the other direction towards the 25-50/2.8 G. It’s a non intrusive lens that will be easy to bring. It covers the most used range and in most cases you can crop or step closer if you need 70mm.

Ultimately the best camera will be the one you have with you. For a school concert or sports it’s easy to bring the 70-200 because of the structured nature of the event. For day to day stuff if the camera is a hassle it won’t be grabbed. This is where size trumps IQ. Only you can know what works for you and unfortunately when you are new you don’t even know yourself. If you pickup something used on the forum here you can try it and as you get to know your needs better you can sell it for something else that fits you better. Buying used gives more freedom on this as the financial impact of changing is lessened. Unfortunately this does not apply to the brand new lenses like the 28-45 or 25-50.

I have an a7Rv with great glass and there is nothing that can touch it optically, but sometimes I want smaller and for that I have a 1” sensor Canon G7X ii, it can’t output the same quality, but it can travel on a pouch on my belt unnoticed.

Best of luck with your decision and don’t sweat it too much you can always try something different later.



Jul 12, 2024 at 07:54 AM
rob_ww
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p.2 #18 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


As a dad and granddad with decades of taking the dad photos you describe, I would recommend an aperture of f2.0 or wider for indoor shots of moving children. Not only for speed in low-light, but also because you have almost no control over the background to that 'great' shot you just captured. The shallow depth of field really takes the background out of play -- and these days you can do a lot in post-process to take that effect further.

For indoor distances, 35 to 50 is the focal length range, so that means a 35GM or one of the 50GMs. You wont be sorry. It's rare that a 24 or 28 group shot works well for everyone in the group, and longer reach is not needed unless your house is really, really large.

Another advantage of using a prime is that you are less imposing. Everyone is having fun. No-one wants to think about 'formal' photos. Dad turning up with his Sony battleship just strikes the wrong note.

I get the need for longer reach at a different venue, e.g. a park, concert or sports ground. 70-200 is great for that, although a 135 prime will give you excellent reach and becomes 200 with APS-C crop.

PS my 'dad photos' are now prized by the whole family. So I am glad (and they are too) that I owned and used great equipment 20,30 years ago. Curiously, the pics become more precious with time. Show them the week after the gathering and no-one says much. Show them 5 years later, people pause over each and every one and declare it amazing!



Jul 12, 2024 at 08:18 AM
Robin Smith
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p.2 #19 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


would be active toddlers indoors across a table or across a living room.

This is a trivial task IMO: nothing compared to when you want to take your child playing basketball etc. Fancy cameras are not required for this task. I think the most useful lens is a 24-70/28-70. F2.8 is plenty, most shots will not be just of your child but of groups of children and their parents so ultra fast lenses are not needed (unless you don't care the rest are out of focus) and the difference between f2 and 2.8 is not really significant. Also you can adjust the ISO on you camera: there is no need to not increase the ISO of your camera, that is what it is for when the light declines. You are taking portraits, not silicon chips where resolving power is everything.

Also, bear in mind that if you are at the toddler stage then times will have changed once they grow up, with new cameras and lenses being available, so there is no real hurry to get the "ultimate" kit now, if that is what you are after, because in 5 years it probably will change.



Jul 12, 2024 at 09:22 AM
Choderboy
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p.2 #20 · What is the must-have FE lens in 24-70mm?


Reason to not want to increase ISO:
2 stops of dynamic range!

Sony A7RV
ISO PDR
100 11.7
320 10.6
3200 7.2
12800 5.2

So with a 2.8 lens indoors at ISO 12800, a 1.4 lens would allow ISO 3200 and 2 stops more dynamic range.
There has been a lot of bickering over the years regarding small differences in DR, but 2 stops is not small.

And as Rob mentioned, those uncontrollable backgrounds......



Jul 12, 2024 at 10:05 AM
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