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Archive 2024 · Official Z6 III Thread -

  
 
GroovyGeek
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p.30 #1 · Official Z6 III Thread -



1bwana1 wrote:
What you are missing is that from a stills perspective unless shooting high speed BIF, or fast sports, there are other older cameras with advanced AF features that may be better all around choices because of IQ. Check the charts against other choices, not just the Z 6II. Competative AF seems the be the primary reason for the upgrade, but that has been avai6for a long time elsewhere.



I agree with this assessment. The meaningful step back in DR at low ISO is a bummer for me. I will withhold judgement till I get the camera and put it through its paces to understand how meaningful the 1 stop DR is for my use cases. But if it shows up under real use I may be one of the early listings on the B&S forum and then going to the Z8 despite my reservations about its size... Or just sticking with the Z6.



Jun 30, 2024 at 10:39 PM
Alistair1
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p.30 #2 · Official Z6 III Thread -




1bwana1 wrote:
What you are missing is that from a stills perspective unless shooting high speed BIF, or fast sports, there are other older cameras with advanced AF features that may be better all around choices because of IQ. Check the charts against other choices, not just the Z 6II. Competative AF seems the be the primary reason for the upgrade, but that has been avai6for a long time elsewhere.


Ok, if you never shoot video and will usually shoot below ISO800 and are happy with jello then this is not your camera.



Jun 30, 2024 at 11:05 PM
Alistair1
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p.30 #3 · Official Z6 III Thread -




GroovyGeek wrote:
I agree with this assessment. The meaningful step back in DR at low ISO is a bummer for me. I will withhold judgement till I get the camera and put it through its paces to understand how meaningful the 1 stop DR is for my use cases. But if it shows up under real use I may be one of the early listings on the B&S forum and then going to the Z8 despite my reservations about its size... Or just sticking with the Z6.

Have you checked the equivalent chart for Z8/9? I imagine it will be worse. But also check the image threads, you may find 1 point lower on the chart is undetectable.



Jun 30, 2024 at 11:09 PM
Alistair1
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p.30 #4 · Official Z6 III Thread -


1bwana1 wrote:
What you are missing is that from a stills perspective unless shooting high speed BIF, or fast sports, there are other older cameras with advanced AF features that may be better all around choices because of IQ. Check the charts against other choices, not just the Z 6II. Competative AF seems the be the primary reason for the upgrade, but that has been avai6for a long time elsewhere.



Out if interest, what camera would you suggest based on the chart?



Jun 30, 2024 at 11:43 PM
Buckeye2604
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p.30 #5 · Official Z6 III Thread -



jaygould wrote:
So basically the Z6III's sensor is on the level of an APS-C (like the Sony A9III's).

It beats the A93 without baking in noise reduction.

Edited on Jul 01, 2024 at 12:26 AM · View previous versions



Jul 01, 2024 at 12:15 AM
GroovyGeek
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p.30 #6 · Official Z6 III Thread -




Alistair1 wrote:
Have you checked the equivalent chart for Z8/9? I imagine it will be worse. But also check the image threads, you may find 1 point lower on the chart is undetectable.


Yes, I have, and that is a very good point. The Z8 is more or less on the same curve above iso 100. The single tilt screen on the Z6 is a PITA for me, the flippy thing on the Z6iii is an abomination, I guess all I wanted was a Z6 or a Z7 with a double tilt screen. Silly, I know, but that's my first world problem.



Jul 01, 2024 at 12:20 AM
swifty168
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p.30 #7 · Official Z6 III Thread -


I think it's fair to be a little disappointed, particularly if base ISO max DR is an area of photography you frequently need to take advantage of. Let's be honest now, max DR is an important metric, at least for benchmarking. In real life shooting of course it varies considerably from person to person but I am seeing a weird assumption people seem to be making. That a reduced DR is apparent in every image, whereas it'd require scene DR to stress sensor DR to make this apparent.

Anyways looking at Bill's charts, it seems like there's really no getting around the increased noise in any of the 'accelerated readout' cameras. It's also showing the Z6 III not using baked in NR in their normal ranges so it may be more receptive to post processing NR, if required?
It also highlights to me just how good the Z8/9 and A1 sensors are, that manages very little DR drops despite their incredible read speeds.



Jul 01, 2024 at 12:20 AM
swifty168
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p.30 #8 · Official Z6 III Thread -


Oh I think the EVF performance should be emphasised too. I'm just guessing it needs a high bandwidth sensor to implement so if true, I'd willingly take the DR at base trade off.
Of course in an ideal world I'd like to have both.



Jul 01, 2024 at 12:25 AM
1bwana1
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p.30 #9 · Official Z6 III Thread -




Alistair1 wrote:
Out if interest, what camera would you suggest based on the chart?


I don't want to derail this thread by naming specific cameras outside the Nikon line. Funny you are always out front calling people names when that happens.

People can easily compare performance using the chart and depending on their use case see which camera may fit their needs best.



Jul 01, 2024 at 01:11 AM
snapsy
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p.30 #10 · Official Z6 III Thread -


Comparison of a 6K NRAW HQ frame vs NEF for the same scene, ISO 100, Minus -7EV. This is mostly a proxy for 14-bit vs 12-bit sensor readout noise, with NEF using a 14-bit readout and NRAW using a 12-bit readout.

Animation: NRAW vs NEF, ISO 100 -7EV, 100% Crop (15MB)



Jul 01, 2024 at 02:39 AM
Max Power
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p.30 #11 · Official Z6 III Thread -


This is going to be one of those internet forum things that will take on a life of its own but in reality the Z8 is pretty much the same and nobody complains about it in the real world. Maybe set down the magnifying glasses and enjoy the images this very capable camera will produce.


Jul 01, 2024 at 06:17 AM
johnvanr
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p.30 #12 · Official Z6 III Thread -


Or watch this video:

?si=CL9SPGSMDQX26a2O



Jul 01, 2024 at 06:27 AM
Alistair1
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p.30 #13 · Official Z6 III Thread -




swifty168 wrote:
I think it's fair to be a little disappointed, particularly if base ISO max DR is an area of photography you frequently need to take advantage of. Let's be honest now, max DR is an important metric, at least for benchmarking. In real life shooting of course it varies considerably from person to person but I am seeing a weird assumption people seem to be making. That a reduced DR is apparent in every image, whereas it'd require scene DR to stress sensor DR to make this apparent.

Anyways looking at Bill's charts, it seems like there's really no getting around
...Show more
And this sensor has the same excellent DR. It's a none issue.




Jul 01, 2024 at 06:58 AM
Alistair1
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p.30 #14 · Official Z6 III Thread -




1bwana1 wrote:
I don't want to derail this thread by naming specific cameras outside the Nikon line. Funny you are always out front calling people names when that happens.

People can easily compare performance using the chart and depending on their use case see which camera may fit their needs best.

No, when I actually looked, I couldn't find anything comparable that would have noticably less noise either.



Jul 01, 2024 at 07:11 AM
1bwana1
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p.30 #15 · Official Z6 III Thread -



Alistair1 wrote:
No, when I actually looked, I couldn't find anything comparable that would have noticably less noise either.



Looking is not one of your strong points then....




Jul 01, 2024 at 07:19 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.30 #16 · Official Z6 III Thread -


1bwana1 wrote:
What you are missing is that from a stills perspective unless shooting high speed BIF, or fast sports, there are other older cameras with advanced AF features that may be better all around choices because of IQ. Check the charts against other choices, not just the Z 6II. Competative AF seems the be the primary reason for the upgrade, but that has been avai6for a long time elsewhere.



Yes, this level of performance has been available for a long time but not for this price point. The performance of the partially stacked sensor for IQ is essentially the same as the Sony A9 (all three version including the new A9 III), and the Leica M10. The Canon R6 and R6 II has similar IQ and a similar price but with built-in noise reduction. That is quite nice IQ. Not top level, but this isn't a top level camera it is a lower mid-level camera and it has video specs that are clearly better than the Sony A9 or A9II or Canon R6 or R6II and of course the Leica doesn't have video.

Nikon is very much in the game with this camera and IMO has even leap-frogged the competition as they should with a new model. The speed/IQ tradeoff has been there for at least 6 years. This camera is no different and it does not look like there will be any changes in that coming soon. The Sony A9 III went even a step further with a global shutter for ultimate speed but with an even slightly reduced IQ.

If you want ultimate IQ, the best is still a slower camera like the Sony A7r V, Leica M11, Leica SL-3 or older cameras like the Sony A7r III, or the Nikon Z7 II. All have very similar very high IQ, but slow fps and slow sensor scan speeds making use of the mechanical shutter (at least EFCS) mandatory for anything moving with any speed at all. For me personally I want this type of camera as I don't shoot things that move much and when I do I am fine with using the mechanical shutter and I don't need a fast action camera. Nikon still needs to update the Z7 to a III model to fully compete in this arena but for this type of camera the Z7 II (or even the Z7) is still a great camera.

Then you have the high speed cameras with fully stacked sensors including the Sony A1, the Nikon Z8 and Z9, and the Canon R3 (and probably an A1 before long). These have almost the IQ of the slow cameras with very fast sensor scan speeds and excellent AF system. They are the ultimate all around performers, with excellent stills and video specs. They are all also very expensive. Canon is clearly a bit behind here with a lower res sensor, but otherwise these are cameras with great capabilities.

Then you have the not quite as fast cameras with a slightly reduced IQ. This Nikon Z6 III falls into that category as does the Canon R6 (and R6 II). The Canon R5 falls into this category but has higher resolution. The Sony A9 and A9 II fall into this category with a faster scan speed, but reduced video capability. All in all, however, these are very nice cameras with a coherent set of trade offs for a nice reduction in price over the premium high speed cameras. They all have really nice AF, and quite fast both in fps and in sensor scan speed, and have only mild compromises in IQ. I think looking across all features the Nikon Z6 III is really compelling in this range of camera. It doesn't have the IQ of the slow highest IQ cameras (and that couldn't be expected) and it is both slower and a bit worse IQ than the high speed fully stack sensor cameras (as would be expected as well), but it is a well rounded camera, IMO, for a very good price.

I think Nikon has done a really good job here, even though this camera isn't for me (I like the high IQ slow cameras). And I see no point in looking back and saying other brands have had this sort of camera for awhile. That is true, but they really haven't advanced since then or brought out a low priced model that fully competes with this camera either. Perhaps they will. For right now, however, this is a compelling camera and I don't see the competition passing it by much even if they come out with a new camera in this price bracket.

Edited on Jul 01, 2024 at 07:59 AM · View previous versions



Jul 01, 2024 at 07:24 AM
RustyRus
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p.30 #17 · Official Z6 III Thread -


So has anyone used this camera as a camera or just a testing device? I will post a video edit soon which is what I have used it for mostly but here are two quick snaps-


Hopefully we get back on track-




  NIKON Z6_3    40mm f/1.2 lens    40mm    f/6.3    1/3200s    800 ISO    0.0 EV  






  NIKON Z6_3    50mm f/1 lens    50mm    f/1.1    1/50s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Jul 01, 2024 at 07:57 AM
cameraman72
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p.30 #18 · Official Z6 III Thread -


The graph referenced in the Photons to Photos sight for the Z6iii does not match the data if you click on the camera model in the upper right corner. I'm not sure which is correct, but it should be noted.

Here are the tabulated values for some of the higher DR FF cameras from Sony for comparison.

ISO Z6iii A7Cii A7RV
50 11.02 11.69 11.7
63 11.04 11.46 11.38
80 11.06 11.13 11.06
100 11.01 11.69 11.69
126 10.88 11.43 11.38
159 10.61 11.07 11.05
200 10.37 10.76 10.71
251 10.08 10.4 10.37
318 9.73 10.16 10.56
400 9.42 10.39 10.22
503 9.11 9.99 9.85
636 8.83 9.67 9.53
800 9.16 9.3 9.19



Jul 01, 2024 at 08:22 AM
RoamingScott
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p.30 #19 · Official Z6 III Thread -


Nice pics! While there is surely useful data to be gleaned from bench testing, it misses the entire point of photography and what these tools are.

RustyRus wrote:
So has anyone used this camera as a camera or just a testing device? I will post a video edit soon which is what I have used it for mostly but here are two quick snaps-

Hopefully we get back on track-




Jul 01, 2024 at 08:39 AM
Alistair1
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p.30 #20 · Official Z6 III Thread -




1bwana1 wrote:
Looking is not one of your strong points then....



Probably didn't look hard enough. Lost the will to live a few seconds in. ;-)



Jul 01, 2024 at 08:44 AM
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