Alistair1 wrote:
The problem I have with Fro and his ilk is that his channel is a community of those invested in brands and seeking affirmation of their purchase decisions. Bashing competing brands plays very well to this audience and has made him a lot of money.
I agree, but none of that is material for his AF tests unless you think he's not being honest with his assessment in the video. Like I said, the only content from him that I even bother to look at are his AF tests - everything else I dismiss for the same reasons you listed.
Personally, I look forward to Fro's reviews. I look forward to his review of a production model. I can't order one until I know how it smells!!
Seriously, I find his reviews entertaining and digest the parts that pertain to my use; the same as I do anyone's reviews and opinions. Everyone has to make a living somehow .... as long as it's legal.
A friend of mine who also preordered has a friend that works at a camera store and he said the store have inventory now they just can't ship them until 25th. His order will be included in the first batch of deliveries which means I will likely get mine also.
ahamp wrote:
Personally, I look forward to Fro's reviews. I look forward to his review of a production model. I can't order one until I know how it smells!!
Seriously, I find his reviews entertaining and digest the parts that pertain to my use; the same as I do anyone's reviews and opinions. Everyone has to make a living somehow .... as long as it's legal.
Yes, and in addition to being legal I would personally add the caveat that reviews should not do unjust harm to others.
Alistair1 wrote:
Yes, and in addition to being legal I would personally add the caveat that reviews should not do unjust harm to others.
So who decides what is just, unjust, or the truth? It is the company who feels slandered that files suit and lets a jury decide. Nikon doesn't seem to think he is being unjust. They continue to give early full access to review equipment. Nikon doesn't sue him for causing unjust harm. It is clear that JP believes what he is reporting. Judging by his viewership numbers many people get value from his content.
His point is valid, but I am pretty sure that you can get used to it.
Also, he is using sony 200-600 as an example. You have the option to use lighter primes on nikon, making this even more easy.
GroovyGeek wrote:
Is the point this guy is making about the PSAM button on the left side valid? I don't do either BIF or action, so this is a don't care for me. But the argument seems rational, despite the somewhat annoying attitude
snapsy wrote:
I'm not a fan of him myself but he's one of the first people I would take advice from on matters related to AF - he's a professional photographer who used to make a living shooting sports.
I have heard that he receives sponsorship money from Canon. Can't confirm but I do take what he says with a grain of salt. When he has side by side comparisons of moving subjects at the same time, great stuff. When he compares different situations.....well, that's not the most scientific. His recent boxing examples for example.....he didn't disclose the AF settings (e.g. how sticky the AF is after obstructions).
I watch Fro's reviews mostly because overall they are entertaining. My experience has often differed from his with regard to AF performance on cameras and thus, I do question whether his is truly objective. He jokes about the money truck, but maybe protests too much. He gives Nikon a much harder time and tends to paint a much rosier picture of other brand's performance than my use of those cameras found is warranted. Currently, the Z8/Z9 AF performance is better than the A1 or A9iii. None of them are 100% all the time, and they are all very very good, but to hear Fro tell it, Nikon is still lagging behind at the flagship level and that's just not the case in my experience. Admittedly, I've had much less hands on time with cannon than with Sony and Nikon, but the time I have had with the R5 and R6 suggested that his praise of canon is a bit over the top, too.
Lastly, I've seen some really fantastic pics he's taken, but if you want to see where he stacks up, watch the video where a pro sports photographer critiques his sports images. However, the 4x5 film baseball images he's been taking are really pretty special.
indusphoto wrote:
His point is valid, but I am pretty sure that you can get used to it.
Also, he is using sony 200-600 as an example. You have the option to use lighter primes on nikon, making this even more easy.
It's an ergonomics preference issue. Sony cameras have their PSAM dial on the right side. He's just used to it that way and he's not wrong to say that it's a deal breaker for for him. It's the same as me not being used to how Canon designs their on/off switch and how the lenses turn the wrong way and things like that are a deal breaker for me.
But I don't like how he is making it look like an actual deal breaker and he just proved himself to be one of the YouTube shrills he described. Here's the thing. The outrage economy is a thing. There are bad actors who thrive on dealing this kind of vitriol and it invokes a reaction, which in turn keeps the cycle of engagement going. These people profit from making content like this.
nhmorgan wrote:
I watch Fro's reviews mostly because overall they are entertaining. My experience has often differed from his with regard to AF performance on cameras and thus, I do question whether his is truly objective. He jokes about the money truck, but maybe protests too much. He gives Nikon a much harder time and tends to paint a much rosier picture of other brand's performance than my use of those cameras found is warranted. Currently, the Z8/Z9 AF performance is better than the A1 or A9iii. None of them are 100% all the time, and they are all very very good, but to hear Fro tell it, Nikon is still lagging behind at the flagship level and that's just not the case in my experience. Admittedly, I've had much less hands on time with cannon than with Sony and Nikon, but the time I have had with the R5 and R6 suggested that his praise of canon is a bit over the top, too.
Lastly, I've seen some really fantastic pics he's taken, but if you want to see where he stacks up, watch the video where a pro sports photographer critiques his sports images. However, the 4x5 film baseball images he's been taking are really pretty special. ...Show more →
same, on the fence with Frows utube, the z6iii has 270 af points compared to sony 800, after watching matt grangers utube af looks slow compared to other brands shooting portraits.
wind30 wrote:
That is not that fast. Canon r6ii speed. I was hoping like 10ms
The R6 II measurement is 12-bit, whereas the Z6 III is 14-bit. The Z6 III can do 9.47ms in 6K raw according to Gerald Undone - video is 12-bit, so that equates to a 1/105 12-bit sensor readout for the 16:9 crop of 6048x3402.
urbanwild wrote:
I have heard that he receives sponsorship money from Canon. Can't confirm but I do take what he says with a grain of salt. When he has side by side comparisons of moving subjects at the same time, great stuff. When he compares different situations.....well, that's not the most scientific. His recent boxing examples for example.....he didn't disclose the AF settings (e.g. how sticky the AF is after obstructions).
If that were true then he'd be required by law to disclose it in his videos.
nhmorgan wrote:
I watch Fro's reviews mostly because overall they are entertaining. My experience has often differed from his with regard to AF performance on cameras and thus, I do question whether his is truly objective. He jokes about the money truck, but maybe protests too much. He gives Nikon a much harder time and tends to paint a much rosier picture of other brand's performance than my use of those cameras found is warranted. Currently, the Z8/Z9 AF performance is better than the A1 or A9iii. None of them are 100% all the time, and they are all very very good, but to hear Fro tell it, Nikon is still lagging behind at the flagship level and that's just not the case in my experience. Admittedly, I've had much less hands on time with cannon than with Sony and Nikon, but the time I have had with the R5 and R6 suggested that his praise of canon is a bit over the top, too.
Lastly, I've seen some really fantastic pics he's taken, but if you want to see where he stacks up, watch the video where a pro sports photographer critiques his sports images. However, the 4x5 film baseball images he's been taking are really pretty special. ...Show more →
I'm not sure we could find many who could agree the Z8/Z9 AF's is better than the A1/A9 III, or many who would say the Z8/Z9 is even equal to those cameras. My experience with the R3 tells me Nikon is still behind Canon in AF.
I used to watch Fro his videos but since like half a year I just can't anymore. Not because his absurness and obsession in brand bashing (guess there is still an audience out there loving that kind of content) but he, amongst so many other reviewers, makes to my opinion the mistake in judging a camera after using it for a few hours.
Sure enough is that how the world of photography is spinning with reviewers getting a god-like status to some but once all dust is settled after the initial reviews within the week of the product release do I look forward to the real world reviews by Steve Perry but also Photography Life. That camera or lens has gone through thousands of photos in different situations including lab tests.
Now I read here somebody is disappointed with the readout speed of 14.6ms. This is a Z6III, not a flagship camera.
Then you have others starting to compare the Z8/9 with a Sony or Canon in the AF arena. Folks, it is about the Z6III, not your personal crusade again Nikon.
The most important question in my mind regarding AF is that if the AF is good enough for your use or not.
If it does the job well, who cares if bran A, B, C or D has better AF, afterall you can't get more keeper regardless. If brand A AF is not good enough then move on to the next brand. Nobody is going to stay with a brand if they keep struggling and could not get a picture that they want when they are better choice around.
Some of the stress test that Flo uses to demonstrate difference in AF, I have ot ask, in the real world, who is shooting like that. Certainly not me and his result is absolutely irrelevant and his conclusion is not applicable to what I need. But I have to admit if I often shoot a crazy man pirouetting like mad, covering face and trying to fool a camera as much as possible, yeah some cameras are better than other and Nikon may not be the best choice. Does anybody still brag to another person that his/her car is better because their car can got 350 mph rather than the other person's 300 mph when they only drive in heavy traffic, congested city?
snapsy wrote:
His conclusion: Nikon really knocked it out of the park here. They finally got to the place where I've been saying the AF has needed to be since they went to the Z6 and Z6 II.
Disclaimer: my perspective comes from someone with limited experience playing around with the C-AF in my Sweetie's Lumix G9M2 and S5M2 and who has been considering a "hold my nose" purchase of an S5M2X as a hold-me-over-purchase until Panasonic decides to finally getting around to updating their S1-series.
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While I am grateful that this video candidly shows AF failures throughout, I can't say where I am of the conclusion that Nikon has "knocked-one-out-of-the-park" here with their C-AF...the "getting stuck on the background" or "failing to recognize a foreground subject" or "wildly changing focus as the subject passes behind objects" seems par-for-the-course with my limited experience with the Lumix C-AF.
My hope in preordering the Z6III was that it would offer me a comparably-priced alternative to grabbing an S5M2X...the internal 6K NRaw and ProRes Raw, and that new 5.76MP 4000-nit EVF, and the minimal EVF blackout, and 9.47ms readout for 6K N-Raw, in the Z6III more than making up for the $300 MSRP difference! Ha!
While I'd have to do a side-by-side C-AF test between Z6III and my Sweetie's S5M2 and G9M2 to make my own personal assessment of the two AF systems, on all other counts Nikon's Z6III has obsoleted the entirety of Panasonic's current offerings for this looking-to-upgrade S1/GH6 shooter's video/stills needs!
So, Z6III or Z8? Hrmm, methinks its time for another train ride into Manhattan for some belly-time at the counter at B&H and Adorama before I pull-the-trigger.
For the umpteenth time, if a reviewer insists on using 3D tracking, they are not getting the most out of the AF system. Fro is the worst offender time after time.
RoamingScott wrote:
For the umpteenth time, if a reviewer insists on using 3D tracking, they are not getting the most out of the AF system. Fro is the worst offender time after time.
Pointing us would-be Nikon-shooters in the right direction for better understanding of their C-AF would be more helpful to this thread than whacking a former sports photographer over the head with a Nerf bat because of their YT assessments.
