p.1 #1 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
I own the Voigtlander 21/1.4 Nokton, and while I'm impressed by the images it produces, I've been looking for a more compact Voigtlander 21mm lens. After reviewing the Voigtlander 21/3.5 Color-Skopar, I found it to be a great alternative. However, I'm curious about the even more compact CV 21/4 Color-Skopar.
There isn't much information about it online. How is its optical performance? Is the mid-field performance stronger compared to the CV 21/3.5? And does it cause magenta corners on the M10-R or M11 or it's better suited for film?
p.1 #2 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
Anecdotally my impression is not positive about it, but that was formed back when I used the M9 and then M240. I recall some concerns about copy variation.
I found this relatively recent post over at LUF. Might be worth looking back through the thread as I believe there are some other images with the 21/4 posted there.
It seems the link might not go directly to the post: page 10 #183.
My inclination is that the 21 SEM is probably the compact slow 21 to get, but $$$$.
p.1 #3 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
I had the CV 21mm f/4 P Color Skopar. It was good on the Bessa R4M I'd paired it with.
Used it on the M9, gave up.
Barely used it on the M10, the corners didn't seem that great to me and the vignetting was too much.
Decided to use it in the M11 for a bit as a prelude to selling it.
I never really gelled with it so sold it maybe a year or so ago. Not a bad lens really. But not a standout, either. It certainly excelled at... being tiny. 😅
Ironically I can say similar things about the Zeiss ZM 15 Distagon but I just can't seem to even let it go...
As an aside I should have never sold the R4M. Cosina should make another run of the Bessa, to stick it to the price gougers who peddle them these days, at or around the price of a Leica.
p.1 #5 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
I think it is more of a film camera lens and not optimized for digital sensors (the current VM version was first released in 2007). I never had one but it has a reputation of not working well when adapted on various mirrorless cameras (at least).
p.1 #6 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
I did code it by hand, I can't say it "solved" the lens for me on any of the digital Ms I used it with. But, you know how it goes sometimes, you develop an impression of a lens and it doesn't change over time and different bodies, because you always focus on what you find fault with, knowing it won't do better.
As an example, higher density sensors test it now more than before, but I still think the Zeiss 120 APO Makro Planar is God's own lens. The color, contrast, clarity, and 1:1 magnification. Yikes.
p.1 #7 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
On my M10-R there is no color vignette (the Italian flag kind), though it does have quite severe regular vignette. At f/8 it's okay on the M10-R but honestly it really isn't up to the higher resolution. Corners are never great in my experience. I haven't looked specifically at midfield vs center but this lens isn't going to blow anyone away with resolution. Lens hood is a giant weird rectangle that can get knocked off axis easily.
The pros are price and size, everything else is going to compare unfavorably to the newer, bigger, and/or pricier stuff.
I would upgrade to the f/3.5 or maybe a Zeiss ZM option but I rarely shoot that wide, when I do it's usually on film where the lens is fine, and the resale value is weak so upgrading would cost money I'd rather spend on getting yet another 50mm
p.1 #8 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
coincidentally yesterday I was deciding on a 21mm to round out my M kit (the other two being 35/1.4 summilux steel rim reissue and 50/1.4 summilux asph). I looked at the Voigtlander 21/3.5 Color-Skopar, Voigtlander 21/4 Color-Skopar, and Leica 21mm f/3.4 Super-Elmar-M asph.
I also want the 21 to be compact, and I don't see the need for a fast 21, so I was able to rule out the larger/heavier 21/1.4 Nokton and 21/1.4 summilux. And based on the above review as well as your review of 21/3.5 Color-Skopar, I ordered the 21mm f/3.4 Super-Elmar.
p.1 #9 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
The 21mm/4 Color-Skopar was the test lens for Kolari when they first introduced their thin sensor mod. You can see what crops look like from their original effort there.
p.1 #10 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
oscartb wrote:
I would upgrade to the f/3.5 or maybe a Zeiss ZM option but I rarely shoot that wide, when I do it's usually on film where the lens is fine, and the resale value is weak so upgrading would cost money I'd rather spend on getting yet another 50mm
The 21 SEM is the best 21 in this speed range based on my ownership and testing of it against the ZM 21/2.8 and Fred's review of the VM 21/3.5, but it's also the most expensive. The ZM 21/2.8 has outward bending (towards infinity) field curvature that isn't masked fully until around f/5.6 and is a relatively long lens compared to the SEM and VM. It also had edge color shift on the M9 even when coded, though now don't recall how significant that was on the M240. On newer BSI sensors it's probably less of a problem. The ZM 21/4.5 is a very sharp, compact lens that has strong vignetting and will have strong edge color shift with many sensors, though it appears to be usable on BSI sensors. It was discontinued a while ago and might be difficult to to find.
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brick33308 wrote:
I also want the 21 to be compact, and I don't see the need for a fast 21, so I was able to rule out the larger/heavier 21/1.4 Nokton and 21/1.4 summilux. And based on the above review as well as your review of 21/3.5 Color-Skopar, I ordered the 21mm f/3.4 Super-Elmar.
p.1 #11 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
rscheffler wrote:
The 21 SEM is the best 21 in this speed range based on my ownership and testing of it against the ZM 21/2.8 and Fred's review of the VM 21/3.5, but it's also the most expensive. The ZM 21/2.8 has outward bending (towards infinity) field curvature that isn't masked fully until around f/5.6 and is a relatively long lens compared to the SEM and VM. It also had edge color shift on the M9 even when coded, though now don't recall how significant that was on the M240. On newer BSI sensors it's probably less of a problem. The ZM 21/4.5 is a very sharp, compact lens that has strong vignetting and will have strong edge color shift with many sensors, though it appears to be usable on BSI sensors. It was discontinued a while ago and might be difficult to to find.
I tested two 21mm SEM lenses, and both were well-centered and performed similarly. I have to admit, it's the top "compact" 21mm lens, but the Voigtlander 21/1.4 Nokton performs better at any aperture anywhere on the frame. Even when stopped down to f/5.6 or f/8, the Nokton is sharper in the corners to the extent that I would choose it over the SEM for landscape photography!
p.1 #12 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
Thanks for the feedback on the CV 21/4. I was curious if the corner color issues were mainly present on non-BSI sensors. I'm relieved to hear that it doesn't show magenta/cyan corners on modern sensors like the M10-R. (Thanks @oscartb)
I might compare it to the 21/3.5 to determine which performs better. The f/3.5 version isn't exceptional in the mid-field, but it's a high-resolution lens at the center, and the corners are decent when stopped down.
p.1 #13 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
oscartb wrote:
On my M10-R there is no color vignette (the Italian flag kind), though it does have quite severe regular vignette. At f/8 it's okay on the M10-R but honestly it really isn't up to the higher resolution. Corners are never great in my experience. I haven't looked specifically at midfield vs center but this lens isn't going to blow anyone away with resolution. Lens hood is a giant weird rectangle that can get knocked off axis easily.
Wait, are you talking about the CV 21/4 Color-Skopar M-mount? It comes with a very small screw-in hood:
p.1 #14 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
There is also a discontinued LTM version of CV 21/4 since 2002 that has an optional accessory hood LH-1 (that also fits several other WA LTM CV lenses) that might fit the description.
The tests mentioned by MAubrey they look very positive. I was considering modding my camera, to use this, the 35 and the 75. They are tiny. The kind of lenses I like. I have the LTM versions of the three.
I tested the 21 and the 35 in stock sony, modded Sony and in an M10 at f8. I intend them to be used in my hikes. Thank you very very very much @BastianK.
I think that they are a way better as landscape lenses in a M10 than in an a A7rII, and still better in a M10 than in the A7rII modded. Your mileage may vary, but this was my honest opinion. None of them so great, but very very small.
The vigneting can be corrected by flat field in one click in Rawtherapee, so I think this is not the real issue.
But at infinity, out of the center they (the 21, the 35 and the 75) are are not so great... This was of course my non-scientific impressions. The 75 is not so great anywhere. The weight difference of the zm 85 is completely justified, due to its excellent performance.
After this, I decided not to mod my camera, although of course YMMV.
My impression is that the newer 21/3.5 is much better. Still not so good as the Lox.
p.1 #18 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
Fred, get one for your MP. Used, they are a steal...though, they suffer from my only gripe about the 35mm f/1.4 Nokton (the tab is too small or the grease is too heavy). The big hood looks cool, too. Had to track one down on ebay.
p.1 #19 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
Also, fun to consider that the design approach to the Color-Skopar has a lot in common with the Zeiss 21/4.5...much like the Voigt 35/2.5 and Zeiss 35/2.8. Clearly, they are not EXACTLY the same, but there is a good degree of overlap...almost like maybe they were designed by the same people (I've theorized that Cosina was doing a lot of the Zeiss design in-house, then Z would sign-off if it met their standards/licensing agreement).
p.1 #20 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?
Are these film shots?
_jim_ wrote:
Fred, get one for your MP. Used, they are a steal...though, they suffer from my only gripe about the 35mm f/1.4 Nokton (the tab is too small or the grease is too heavy). The big hood looks cool, too. Had to track one down on ebay.
