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Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?

  
 
brick33308
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p.3 #1 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


thanks, but no need to spend time hunting down those results.

I considered the Leica 21/1.4 but decided it's too heavy/big, and for street work/hiking/landscape I don't need the speed. That's why I think either the Leica 21/3.4 or V21/3.5 are perfect lenses for those purposes.



Mar 30, 2024 at 11:11 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #2 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


brick33308 wrote:
thanks, but no need to spend time hunting down those results.

I considered the Leica 21/1.4 but decided it's too heavy/big, and for street work/hiking/landscape I don't need the speed. That's why I think either the Leica 21/3.4 or V21/3.5 are perfect lenses for those purposes.


Yes, both the Leica 21/3.4 and CV 21/3.5 are excellent choices. The Leica performs better in the mid-field area, but they're pretty much equal at the center and not too different at the extreme corners. When stopped down to f/8, you shouldn't notice much difference, and the Voigtlander produces more defined sunstars. For those using the lens on both Leica M and Sony sensors, the Voigtlander is a much better option.

I'll try out the CV 21/4 just to see how it compares. I'm intrigued because it has a similar optical design to the Zeiss 21/4.5 Biogon.



Mar 30, 2024 at 12:50 PM
hmzimelka
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p.3 #3 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
The decrease in resolution in the middle area won't be too obvious with a sample like this one. Consider using an image with high detail throughout, from the center to the corners, focused at infinity. The drop in resolution is quite noticeable and isn't caused by differences in copies. I've tried multiple CV 21/3.5 Color-Skopar lenses in both E and M mounts and they perform the same way.
While there's field curvature, focusing on that area instead of the center for a subject at a long distance doesn't improve the mid-zone sharpness:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1566500/0#14632368


The high frequency detail in asphalt seems like a suitable target to me...

Focused at infinity, my lens won't reach infinity in the mid zone, so that test would be pointless unless I actually remove a shim from the lens so that it focuses passed infinity at the centre.




Mar 31, 2024 at 04:51 AM
rji2goleez
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p.3 #4 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


Late to this party but I own the 21/4 Color Skopar and use it on my M11 and M4-P. While I am not much of a pixel peeper, I've been quite happy with my copy of this lens. I use it mostly for lanscape (e.g., sunsets) and happy with the results, especially at this price point. As someone said above, this lens is a steal on the used market. It might not be the ultimate 21mm lens for modern day sensors if you're looking for "perfection" but I'm happy with the results I'm getting.


Mar 31, 2024 at 07:39 AM
Andrew CD
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p.3 #5 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
Yes, both the Leica 21/3.4 and CV 21/3.5 are excellent choices. The Leica performs better in the mid-field area, but they're pretty much equal at the center and not too different at the extreme corners. When stopped down to f/8, you shouldn't notice much difference, and the Voigtlander produces more defined sunstars. For those using the lens on both Leica M and Sony sensors, the Voigtlander is a much better option.

I'll try out the CV 21/4 just to see how it compares. I'm intrigued because it has a similar optical design to the Zeiss 21/4.5 Biogon.


Unless there’s a specific reason you’re interested in a smaller Voigtlander 21mm, why not try the ZM Biogon f/4.5 itself?

As it happens, I have been keen to find a copy of the ZM f/4.5 for some time, to complement my CV f/1.4. (Ultimately, my aim is to have a Leica kit comprising the 3.4/21 SEM, 1.4/50 Summilux Asph and 2.0/90 Summicron APO but, right now, I’d simply like a good quality, much cheaper and small 21mm.) I’ve been kicking myself for not buying one that Jo Geier in Vienna were selling last year but have just picked up what appears to be an excellent copy, in mint condition, for only £450 (UK pounds).

I realise that the ZM has big colour shift (smearing) problems on some Leica digitals but it does seem fine on the M11 (and, I presume, the M10-R, too?). This was confirmed by member lct on the Leica forum just over a year ago:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/349946-c-biogon-2145-on-m11/#comment-4590829

I’m not where I usually try out new kit in the Scottish Highlands, and the weather here (Herefordshire in the west of England, near the Welsh border) has been dire, but here are a couple of snaps. Both wide open; for each, the first image is unprocessed (M11 profile, LR default sharpening), the second has the lens correction profile applied. The final crop screenshot is 400%.

As expected, there is fairly significant vignetting, that’s no problem as far as I'm concerned. I’m not sure how visible it will be viewing thee images on the forum, but I was slightly surprised to see — when flipping between the as-shot and ‘corrected’ brick wall images on my bigger screen in LR — that the lens profile does seem to adjust the shape of the image slightly, as if it’s trying to correct slight radial distortion (which I was not expecting would be a problem with this lens, although it’s perfectly possible that may have done something wrong). I’ll look at the profile later.

If it would be of interest, I could try doing a comparison with the lens on a Sony A7R IV, using the Novoflex NEX M/E-mount adapter, maybe this coming weekend. I’ve no idea whether the colour shift problem would manifest itself on the Sony stack, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it does.

Andrew





Wide open, no adjustments (M11 profile, default sharpening)

  LEICA M11    Zeiss C Biogon T* 4.5/21 ZM lens    21mm    f/4.8    1/500s    64 ISO    0.0 EV  






Lens correction profile applied

  LEICA M11    Zeiss C Biogon T* 4.5/21 ZM lens    21mm    f/4.8    1/500s    64 ISO    0.0 EV  






Wide open, no adjustments (M11 profile, default sharpening)

  LEICA M11    Zeiss C Biogon T* 4.5/21 ZM lens    21mm    f/4.8    1/500s    64 ISO    0.0 EV  






Lens correction profile applied

  LEICA M11    Zeiss C Biogon T* 4.5/21 ZM lens    21mm    f/4.8    1/500s    64 ISO    0.0 EV  






400% crop (screenshot)




Apr 09, 2024 at 11:50 AM
gordec
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p.3 #6 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


I opted for 24 Elmar instead of 21 SEM. I really like the FL for my use. Wide enough for almost everything, narrow enough to still look fairly nature. It's nice to have native 6bit coded lens.


Apr 09, 2024 at 12:46 PM
Knut.
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p.3 #7 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


hmzimelka wrote:

I just checked my lens and I can't see a mid zone dip, in the sense that the centre and edges are sharper than the mid zone. Mine has a very sharp central area depicted in the area of the red circle, and outside that its a fair dip in resolution that gradually deteriorates towards the edges. The image was shot at f/5.6 and gains only marginal improvement at f/8.

It's not a great performer at the edges but it's not horrible either. I'm using a M11.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53620559564_c72c2e8cf8_h.jpg


Looking at these images I have a hunch where the impression of a mid zone dip might come from: The area of focus seem to have a very strong moustache form:
- from an impressive rather distant center,
- it moves very strongly to the foreground in the midzone
(so strongly that it is possibly impossible to get center and midzone into the same area of focus)
- and then the area of sharpness arches back a bit for the corners.

It is well conceivable that images might show a strong center, a weak midzone and acceptable corners.
On the other hand focussing at the midzones should yield a similar sharpness as separately focussing on the corners.



Apr 09, 2024 at 01:10 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #8 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


Andrew CD wrote:
Unless there’s a specific reason you’re interested in a smaller Voigtlander 21mm, why not try the ZM Biogon f/4.5 itself?

As it happens, I have been keen to find a copy of the ZM f/4.5 for some time, to complement my CV f/1.4. (Ultimately, my aim is to have a Leica kit comprising the 3.4/21 SEM, 1.4/50 Summilux Asph and 2.0/90 Summicron APO but, right now, I’d simply like a good quality, much cheaper and small 21mm.) I’ve been kicking myself for not buying one that Jo Geier in Vienna were selling last year but have just picked up
...Show more

Thanks for sharing the sample images, Andrew. I agree that the color shift in the corners looks fine on the M11. However, the vignetting is quite strong, but as you demonstrated, it can be minimized in post-processing.

You asked why not consider the Zeiss 21/4.5 instead of the Voigtlander, given their similar optical designs. My reasons are that the Voigtlander is still in production and the Zeiss can be challenging to find in the used market. Also, the Voigtlander 21/4 appears to be smaller and lighter.



Apr 09, 2024 at 06:56 PM
 


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speedgraphic
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p.3 #9 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


On film the 21/4 is pretty good. The Biogons are much better. On digital, I'd get the 3.5.


Apr 09, 2024 at 09:25 PM
hmzimelka
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p.3 #10 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


Knut. wrote:
Looking at these images I have a hunch where the impression of a mid zone dip might come from: The area of focus seem to have a very strong moustache form:
- from an impressive rather distant center,
- it moves very strongly to the foreground in the midzone
(so strongly that it is possibly impossible to get center and midzone into the same area of focus)
- and then the area of sharpness arches back a bit for the corners.

It is well conceivable that images might show a strong center, a weak midzone and acceptable corners.
On the other hand focussing at the
...Show more

Exactly. I don't see a mid-frame dip on my lens, just a lot of field curvature.
But I may have a different sample to what Fred had. Fred also had a great copy of the Ultron 35mm ASPH II, and the one I had had a strong mid-frame dip with fairly annoying astigmatism. And perfectly symmetrical at that. So possible variation in lenses can play a role here.



Apr 10, 2024 at 04:52 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #11 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


hmzimelka wrote:
Exactly. I don't see a mid-frame dip on my lens, just a lot of field curvature.
But I may have a different sample to what Fred had. Fred also had a great copy of the Ultron 35mm ASPH II, and the one I had had a strong mid-frame dip with fairly annoying astigmatism. And perfectly symmetrical at that. So possible variation in lenses can play a role here.


Perform a test with your lens. Open the aperture fully, focus on the center, and examine the mid-field area of your image. Then, refocus specifically on the mid-field and compare the results from both settings. In my experience, when I refocus on the mid-field, I don't see much improvement, suggesting a resolution drop likely caused by the lens's optical design. Additionally, there appears to be field curvature present but I only test it at infinity.



Apr 10, 2024 at 10:55 AM
Andrew CD
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p.3 #12 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for sharing the sample images, Andrew. I agree that the color shift in the corners looks fine on the M11. However, the vignetting is quite strong, but as you demonstrated, it can be minimized in post-processing.

You asked why not consider the Zeiss 21/4.5 instead of the Voigtlander, given their similar optical designs. My reasons are that the Voigtlander is still in production and the Zeiss can be challenging to find in the used market. Also, the Voigtlander 21/4 appears to be smaller and lighter.


Eminently reasonable reasons. Indeed, it has taken me over a year to buy a copy of the ZM in good condition at a decent price.

I'll be interested if you do have a chance to compare the CV f/4.0 with either the CV f/3.5 or the SEM. When I have time (and better weather than the interminable rain we have had here for months -- already looking like it may be the worst harvest for decades), I'll do a comparison with the CV f/1.4. That may sound like an unfair contest, but I've a suspicion that the ZM f/4.5 may hold its own, vignetting aside.

I'd also be interested to know just how similar the ZM f/4.5 and the CV f/4.0 are in reality (I haven't looked terribly hard, but haven't come across any comparisons). The optical designs certainly do look pretty similar, although I don't know how significant the slight differences in element shape and width would be in practice; nor do I know how precise these two diagrams from the Voigtlander and Zeiss websites actually are. I've also attached the MTFs for the ZM (I don't think Voigtlander make theirs available?), just in case anyone is interested to see that. Quite surprising how sharp it is at the centre.

In any event, I'm delighted with the ZM.






Voigtlander VM Color Skopar 21mm f/4.0







Zeiss ZM Biogon 21mm f/4.5







Zeiss ZM Biogon 21mm f/4.5 (10/20/40 lpm)




Apr 10, 2024 at 01:51 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #13 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


Andrew CD wrote:
Eminently reasonable reasons. Indeed, it has taken me over a year to buy a copy of the ZM in good condition at a decent price.

I'll be interested if you do have a chance to compare the CV f/4.0 with either the CV f/3.5 or the SEM. When I have time (and better weather than the interminable rain we have had here for months -- already looking like it may be the worst harvest for decades), I'll do a comparison with the CV f/1.4. That may sound like an unfair contest, but I've a suspicion that the ZM f/4.5 may
...Show more

My prediction from your test with the CV 21/1.4 is that both Zeiss and Voigtländer 21/4 won't keep up starting at f/4 and smaller. The CV 21/1.4 does better than even the SEM at smaller apertures which is surprising to me since I consider the Leica one of the best 21mm lenses for the M.



Apr 10, 2024 at 02:01 PM
acanton
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p.3 #14 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for sharing so many great samples!

I plan to get both the CV 21/4 and CV 21/3.5 and compare them directly, using both Leica digital and film cameras. If you're looking for a 21mm M-mount lens that works exceptionally well with Sony sensors, the CV 21/3.5 is definitely the way to go. I was surprised by how similar the performance is on the Leica and thicker Sony sensor.


I'm thinking about buying a CV 21/4 for my Leica film camera. Did you end up grabbing a copy or doing any comparisons? I'd love to see some tests done with the CV 21/4 compared to some other 21 lenses before dropping money on one. I'm interested in vignetting, distortion, and field curvature mostly.



Aug 11, 2024 at 08:09 AM
sergun
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p.3 #15 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


I switched from Sony to Panasonic S9. Sony had 21/3.5 and I liked it. Now I would like to get something similar for the L-mount. Maybe M-mount through an adapter?


Jul 21, 2025 at 01:38 PM
karimnasser
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p.3 #16 · Voigtlander 21mm f/4 VM Color-Skopar. Any good?


Nothing but spectacular images from the Voigtlander 21 f/4, how can I upload a photo?


Jan 15, 2026 at 02:43 PM
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