p.14 #1X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Fred Miranda wrote: RoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteRoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteFred Miranda wroteThanks Adam,
Practically speaking, when shooting stills, switching to 'continuous' mode results in a 1/40s sensor readout, whereas in normal mode, it's only 1/30s. Correct?Yep, that's right (1/27 vs 1/41). Keep in mind continuous mode involves a crop - the resolution drops to 24MP.I never knew about the crop for continuous. Shows you how I use my camera!I just checked the manual to see which specific continuous modes the 1.29x crop applies - it's for the 10fps, 13fps and 20fps and not for the 11fps, 8fps, and 3-6fps modes. Odd. This is on page 384 of the full manual (PDF page 412).Wouldn't those be the electronic shutter speeds?Yes, the 1.29x crop only occurs when you're shooting in electronic shutter mode. (10, 13 and 20FPS)
So, the question is: Does the sensor-readout speed of approximately 1/40 apply to both mechanical and electronic shutter modes? Or is the readout even faster in electronic shutter mode?
Watching the Gerald Undone video about...video...latency, he noted that the 6k and oversampled 4k video modes had a roughly 40ms readout when normal 4k dropped down to 15ms. Would that mean that cropping into the sensor for electronic shutter mode could induce similar latency?
p.14 #2X100VI first impressions + running commentary
snapsy wrote: RoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteFred Miranda wrotesnapsy wroteI've just posted the full sensor readout stats, courtesy of @AZ Photo@@@@@ generous submission:
Practically speaking, when shooting stills, switching to 'continuous' mode results in a 1/40s sensor readout, whereas in normal mode, it's only 1/30s. Correct?Yep, that's right (1/27 vs 1/41). Keep in mind continuous mode involves a crop - the resolution drops to 24MP.I never knew about the crop for continuous. Shows you how I use my camera!I just checked the manual to see which specific continuous modes the 1.29x crop applies - it's for the 10fps, 13fps and 20fps and not for the 11fps, 8fps, and 3-6fps modes. Odd. This is on page 384 of the full manual (PDF page 412).
This is the same for most X series cameras - there are different frame rates for electronic vs mechanical shutter.
On some cameras the highest electronic frame rates are cropped - this applies to the X100VI but not the X-H2S.
The faster readout would only apply when the crop applies - not all continuous and not all electronic shutter.
p.14 #3X100VI first impressions + running commentary
RoamingScott wrote: Fred Miranda wroteRoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteRoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteYep, that's right (1/27 vs 1/41). Keep in mind continuous mode involves a crop - the resolution drops to 24MP.I never knew about the crop for continuous. Shows you how I use my camera!I just checked the manual to see which specific continuous modes the 1.29x crop applies - it's for the 10fps, 13fps and 20fps and not for the 11fps, 8fps, and 3-6fps modes. Odd. This is on page 384 of the full manual (PDF page 412).Wouldn't those be the electronic shutter speeds?Yes, the 1.29x crop only occurs when you're shooting in electronic shutter mode. (10, 13 and 20FPS)
So, the question is: Does the sensor-readout speed of approximately 1/40 apply to both mechanical and electronic shutter modes? Or is the readout even faster in electronic shutter mode?Watching the Gerald Undone video about...video...latency, he noted that the 6k and oversampled 4k video modes had a roughly 40ms readout when normal 4k dropped down to 15ms. Would that mean that cropping into the sensor for electronic shutter mode could induce similar latency?
His video shows 24.6ms (1/40) for 6k and oversampled 4k. I measured 24.8ms. Non-oversampled involves a combination of line skipping and binning, depending on the implementation, whereas cropping is a reduction in the number of rows, with the faster readout directly proportional to the lower row count.
p.14 #4X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Fred Miranda wrote: RoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteRoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteFred Miranda wroteThanks Adam,
Practically speaking, when shooting stills, switching to 'continuous' mode results in a 1/40s sensor readout, whereas in normal mode, it's only 1/30s. Correct?Yep, that's right (1/27 vs 1/41). Keep in mind continuous mode involves a crop - the resolution drops to 24MP.I never knew about the crop for continuous. Shows you how I use my camera!I just checked the manual to see which specific continuous modes the 1.29x crop applies - it's for the 10fps, 13fps and 20fps and not for the 11fps, 8fps, and 3-6fps modes. Odd. This is on page 384 of the full manual (PDF page 412).Wouldn't those be the electronic shutter speeds?Yes, the 1.29x crop only occurs when you're shooting in electronic shutter mode. (10, 13 and 20FPS)
So, the question is: Does the sensor-readout speed of approximately 1/40 apply to both continuous drive mechanical and electronic shutter modes? Or is it's just for ES in crop mode?
The 1/41 does not apply for continuous shooting unless its also in crop mode
p.14 #5X100VI first impressions + running commentary
AZ Photo wrote: Fred Miranda wroteRoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteRoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteYep, that's right (1/27 vs 1/41). Keep in mind continuous mode involves a crop - the resolution drops to 24MP.I never knew about the crop for continuous. Shows you how I use my camera!I just checked the manual to see which specific continuous modes the 1.29x crop applies - it's for the 10fps, 13fps and 20fps and not for the 11fps, 8fps, and 3-6fps modes. Odd. This is on page 384 of the full manual (PDF page 412).Wouldn't those be the electronic shutter speeds?Yes, the 1.29x crop only occurs when you're shooting in electronic shutter mode. (10, 13 and 20FPS)
So, the question is: Does the sensor-readout speed of approximately 1/40 apply to both continuous drive mechanical and electronic shutter modes? Or is it's just for ES in crop mode?The 1/41 does not apply for continuous shooting unless its also in crop mode
Makes sense because of the crop. So, unless using the 1.3x crop mode, in practical terms, the X100VI readout is 1/30. This is similar when comparing some high res full frame cameras in APS-C mode.
p.14 #6X100VI first impressions + running commentary
AZ Photo wrote: Fred Miranda wroteRoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteRoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteYep, that's right (1/27 vs 1/41). Keep in mind continuous mode involves a crop - the resolution drops to 24MP.I never knew about the crop for continuous. Shows you how I use my camera!I just checked the manual to see which specific continuous modes the 1.29x crop applies - it's for the 10fps, 13fps and 20fps and not for the 11fps, 8fps, and 3-6fps modes. Odd. This is on page 384 of the full manual (PDF page 412).Wouldn't those be the electronic shutter speeds?Yes, the 1.29x crop only occurs when you're shooting in electronic shutter mode. (10, 13 and 20FPS)
So, the question is: Does the sensor-readout speed of approximately 1/40 apply to both continuous drive mechanical and electronic shutter modes? Or is it's just for ES in crop mode?The 1/41 does not apply for continuous shooting unless its also in crop mode
The manual seems to indicate the crop mode is compulsory for the highest frame rates. Are you saying that's not the case or were you just pointing out it only applies with the crop is used, for whatever reason, either optionally or not.
p.14 #7X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Thanks for the feedback on the video.
I’m considering whether it’s worth getting this camera to replace my rx1 (original) which is still working well but limited in af. When I look at comparisons with the v I’m not overwhelmed, but the af is definitely better, though not a7iv level.
I love the file output of the rx1. If the af was just a touch better I wouldn’t consider a replacement. I’m still tempted to find a used rx1r I which would be a similar price, but without warranty and some gambling on durability based on previous owner use. The other option is to get the 40/50 2.5 and use the a7iv more. In a way I kick myself for getting Sony instead of Fuji as I love the Fuji colours (I don’t want to debate the colour science, I find it pleasing). I also am tempted by the film simulations which I’ve always loved and there less time I have for post, the more drawn I am.
p.14 #8X100VI first impressions + running commentary
This is an interesting bit of rendering I haven't seen from the V or VI yet...note the edges of the flowers in the bokeh. I wasn't able to do any amount of post on this file because it looks so blotchy. This is a SOOC jpeg.
p.14 #9X100VI first impressions + running commentary
snapsy wrote: AZ Photo wroteFred Miranda wroteRoamingScott wrotesnapsy wroteRoamingScott wroteI never knew about the crop for continuous. Shows you how I use my camera!I just checked the manual to see which specific continuous modes the 1.29x crop applies - it's for the 10fps, 13fps and 20fps and not for the 11fps, 8fps, and 3-6fps modes. Odd. This is on page 384 of the full manual (PDF page 412).Wouldn't those be the electronic shutter speeds?Yes, the 1.29x crop only occurs when you're shooting in electronic shutter mode. (10, 13 and 20FPS)
So, the question is: Does the sensor-readout speed of approximately 1/40 apply to both continuous drive mechanical and electronic shutter modes? Or is it's just for ES in crop mode?The 1/41 does not apply for continuous shooting unless its also in crop modeThe manual seems to indicate the crop mode is compulsory for the highest frame rates. Are you saying that's not the case or were you just pointing out it only applies with the crop is used, for whatever reason, either optionally or not.
I was pointing out that it could misleading to say that the faster scan rates apply to continuous shooting - it only applies to the highest continuous rates in electronic shutter mode where the crop applies (there are other - slightly slower - high speed continuous rates that do not apply the crop)
p.14 #10X100VI first impressions + running commentary
I own both cameras in question.
I too love the output of the RX1R though find my frustrations with the camera generally outweigh my desire to actually use it. The AF is prehistoric. The attachable EVF is fragile and fiddly and another thing to cart around, mount and then compose photographs. The fixed screen makes it difficult to compose low or high vantages from standing. Forget about it for photographing kids.
The X100VI is not perfect either. The files aren’t perfect though it is tremendously more enjoyable to carry and use.
That RX1R rendering and output is a thing of beauty but the rest of the camera is a frustrating experience to say the least.
h00ligan wrote:
Thanks for the feedback on the video.
I’m considering whether it’s worth getting this camera to replace my rx1 (original) which is still working well but limited in af. When I look at comparisons with the v I’m not overwhelmed, but the af is definitely better, though not a7iv level.
I love the file output of the rx1. If the af was just a touch better I wouldn’t consider a replacement. I’m still tempted to find a used rx1r I which would be a similar price, but without warranty and some gambling on durability based on previous owner use. The other option is to get the 40/50 2.5 and use the a7iv more. In a way I kick myself for getting Sony instead of Fuji as I love the Fuji colours (I don’t want to debate the colour science, I find it pleasing). I also am tempted by the film simulations which I’ve always loved and there less time I have for post, the more drawn I am.
p.14 #11X100VI first impressions + running commentary
RoamingScott wrote:
This is an interesting bit of rendering I haven't seen from the V or VI yet...note the edges of the flowers in the bokeh. I wasn't able to do any amount of post on this file because it looks so blotchy. This is a SOOC jpeg.
p.14 #12X100VI first impressions + running commentary
stuuke wrote: RoamingScott wroteThis is an interesting bit of rendering I haven't seen from the V or VI yet...note the edges of the flowers in the bokeh. I wasn't able to do any amount of post on this file because it looks so blotchy. This is a SOOC jpeg.
I'm going to try and replicate it and figure out if it was my recipe that caused it. I suspect a "Color +3" might be the culprit but I have many similar photos and no flowers have the same odd edge halos.
It was at f/4 as well so not just a MFD wide open anomaly.
edit - definitely something in the recipe.
Default Provia - you can see just a hint of the effect, but if you weren't looking for it, probably wouldn't notice
Could sort of recreate it with a different blue object in bokeh, but the hard edges of flowers really seems to set it off. Interesting stuff to keep on eye on with recipes for sure!
p.14 #16X100VI first impressions + running commentary
More and more, as I look at these photos, I do *not* like the general rendering of this lens. I've owned an X100 (og) and X100F, both briefly, and I think that was probably part of why I never fell in love with it.
Like others in the thread, if Fuji were to drop an XE5 with these same basic specs applied to an XE4 body, I would be much more interested. I love the output from the XF/XC 35/2, and the XF 18/2 so much, but would really like the upgraded sensor, AF, and IBIS.
p.14 #17X100VI first impressions + running commentary
The lens might not be the sharpest, but it probably helps with making FUJI's instagram filters (simulations) look more nostalgic and different from other camera brands. On pure technical terms, any mirror less camera (APSC or FF) will produce as good results as this camera, if not better. As Fuji is making me wait, my excitement for this camera is fading fast. I hope it will ship before I lose all interest in it.
p.14 #19X100VI first impressions + running commentary
ISO1600 wrote:
Had I been on a wait-list, I would've cancelled by now.
The hype about this camera has been… remarkable.
It still is as good of a camera as it was, but I suspect that time (as it always does) is leading some to think of it less as The One Perfect Camera To Rule All Cameras and more as another Fujifilm camera with a particular interface and features.
p.14 #20X100VI first impressions + running commentary
gdanmitchell wrote: ISO1600 wroteHad I been on a wait-list, I would've cancelled by now.The hype about this camera has been… remarkable.
It still is as good of a camera as it was, but I suspect that time (as it always does) is leading some to think of it less as The One Perfect Camera To Rule All Cameras and more as another Fujifilm camera with a particular interface and features.
Agreed. It is definitely not, and never was, the one perfect camera. I just know I miss having one from time to time. lol
BH originally quoted me a ship date of 2/28, and then showed delayed when that date arrived. I took that as a sign from the heavens that I might as well wait out the user reviews, since it was unclear when I would actually get one. Canceled that same day.