BastianK wrote:
I went out with 6 different 28mm lenses with maximum apertures between f/1.2 and f/1.5 today ( @hanay78@@ was also there to check out my A7rII UT):
I already compared the bokeh in seven different scenes and at different distances.
If anyone wants my advice: if you care about bokeh rendering, wait to see the results before you buy the VM 28mm 1.5.
It is a night and day difference between the VM and the Thypoch.
Yeah, I would qualify many of CV's lenses as a bit Zeiss in that ultra-abstracted and smooth bokeh doesn't seem a priority. And when it does hit really smooth bokeh, the other parts of the frame aren't as smooth. Having said that, I like a little structure in the draw as long as it's mostly uniform. I dislike it strongly when it's incongrous.
So the CV 28/1.5 bokeh is probably preferential to me. I am more curious about the inner and mid mid-frames WO as that's very often where I place my subjects, especially at 35mm and below.
I'd just like to ensure if my copy is behaving typically at the distances I often shoot (1-3 meters) in the mid-zone.
RustyBug wrote:
Excellent ... exactly what I was hoping to see.
Now, any chance you've got a Lux, Q and Cron, too.
Wishing for more, but even still ... very informative presentation.
Those two are the 28mm lenses I have. Fred Miranda posted several pictures comparing the Nokton to the Summilux, so I'd point you to those if you didn't already see them. I no longer have the Summicron-M Asph II, but I did compare it to the Ultron II before I sold the Leica lens.
LarsHP wrote:
Those two are the 28mm lenses I have. Fred Miranda posted several pictures comparing the Nokton to the Summilux, so I'd point you to those if you didn't already see them. I no longer have the Summicron-M Asph II, but I did compare it to the Ultron II before I sold the Leica lens.
Yup, seen those ... just, the clarity of your test makes it easy to readily discern the variances (transmission / color cast diff's, etc.) without having to decipher the scene to evaluate the lens.
Got a link to the Cron / Ultron comparison? I might have missed that one.
BastianK wrote:
I went out with 6 different 28mm lenses with maximum apertures between f/1.2 and f/1.5 today ( @hanay78@@ was also there to check out my A7rII UT):
I already compared the bokeh in seven different scenes and at different distances.
If anyone wants my advice: if you care about bokeh rendering, wait to see the results before you buy the VM 28mm 1.5.
It is a night and day difference between the VM and the Thypoch.
I'm also looking forward to the comparison to the Thypoch 28mm. Please let us know your findings!
BastianK wrote:
I went out with 6 different 28mm lenses with maximum apertures between f/1.2 and f/1.5 today ( @hanay78@@ was also there to check out my A7rII UT):
I already compared the bokeh in seven different scenes and at different distances.
If anyone wants my advice: if you care about bokeh rendering, wait to see the results before you buy the VM 28mm 1.5.
It is a night and day difference between the VM and the Thypoch.
I'm leaning toward a two M lens solution for 28mm: Color Skopar for small size + Thypoch for rendering. Already ordered the CS.
LarsHP wrote:
Since there already have been lots of images posted here showing sharpness, rendering/bokeh etc. of the 28mm Nokton, I have done a vignetting test comparing it to the 28mm Ultron II.
In the composite image below, we see not only a marked vignetting difference at f/2, the overall exposure (hence transmission) is much better in the Nokton. As expected, the difference evens out when stopping down. The difference in exposure at f/4 and f/5.6 is minor, but at f/2, the Nokton is clearly brighter even in the center (230 vs 222 in 8-bit steps). I also note that the Ultron II has a weak but visible magenta tint towards the corners, while the Nokton has negligible color shift.
Contrast and saturation settings in post process will change the appearance in this kind of test, so please refer to this as a relative test only. ...Show more →
Can't imagine how this lens is going to better Thypoch. I'm pretty impressed with bokeh from that lens in your pictures. Also as we know bokeh is not really the thing for cosina (though bokeh is subjective as is said).
BastianK wrote:
I went out with 6 different 28mm lenses with maximum apertures between f/1.2 and f/1.5 today ( @hanay78@@ was also there to check out my A7rII UT):
I already compared the bokeh in seven different scenes and at different distances.
If anyone wants my advice: if you care about bokeh rendering, wait to see the results before you buy the VM 28mm 1.5.
It is a night and day difference between the VM and the Thypoch.
highdesertmesa wrote:
I'm leaning toward a two M lens solution for 28mm: Color Skopar for small size + Thypoch for rendering. Already ordered the CS.
Same for me!
One teaser for you all that blatantly shows the field curvature of the VM:
VM 28mm 1.5 @ 1.5 Leica M10
Thypoch 28mm 1.4 @ 1.4 Leica M10
And this is only the tip of the iceberg, as this is only ~2 m distance.
The Thypoch is always among the best in terms of bokeh rendering, same league as Sigma 28mm 1.4 Art and Nikon AF-S 28mm 1.4E.
A fantastic day of testing very small M-Mount lenses in @BastianK@@ A7rII UT
A very nice time of excellent weather, of interesting first hand experience on UT handling!
Thank you very very much Bastian!!!
BastianK wrote:
I went out with 6 different 28mm lenses with maximum apertures between f/1.2 and f/1.5 today ( @hanay78@@ was also there to check out my A7rII UT):
I already compared the bokeh in seven different scenes and at different distances.
If anyone wants my advice: if you care about bokeh rendering, wait to see the results before you buy the VM 28mm 1.5.
It is a night and day difference between the VM and the Thypoch.
A few samples from a walk-around yesterday:
The CV 28/1.5 Nokton creates a textured look in the image rendering, quite similar to the Leica 28/1.4 Lux, which I really appreciate. I prefer this style more than the smooth and sometimes dull look you get from modern lenses. I'm happy that Cosina took a different approach with this lens compared to what I saw with other vintage lenses like the CV 50/1.5 II and CV 35/1.5 Nokton.
LEICA M10-RVoigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens28mmf/2.01/125s200 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M10-RVoigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens28mmf/2.01/250s100 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M10-RVoigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens28mmf/2.01/125s125 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M10-RVoigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens28mmf/2.41/125s250 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M10-RVoigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens28mmf/2.01/180s100 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M10-RVoigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens28mmf/2.01/250s100 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M10-RVoigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens28mmf/2.01/180s125 ISO0.0 EV
RustyBug wrote:
Yup, seen those ... just, the clarity of your test makes it easy to readily discern the variances (transmission / color cast diff's, etc.) without having to decipher the scene to evaluate the lens.
Got a link to the Cron / Ultron comparison? I might have missed that one.
rscheffler wrote:
What camera did you use for these?
Kolari Ultra-Thin sensor glass modified Nikon Z6. The test should still have value as a relative comparison.
From my previous testing, the Leica M 240 has less vignetting, but more color shift than the Z6UT (using 28mm Summicron Asph II).
If Bastian Kratzke is right that the M11 sensor doesn't have special micro-lenses, the test should be resembling that camera more, since both have BSI sensors.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg, as this is only ~2 m distance.
The Thypoch is always among the best in terms of bokeh rendering, same league as Sigma 28mm 1.4 Art and Nikon AF-S 28mm 1.4E.
When scrutinizing the central background, it appears that the Nokton has less blur there, which could point to focus being slightly further away than the Simera? Otherwise, this test does show the outward bending focus plane + stronger optical vignetting of the Nokton brutally!
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Excellent. Thanks for posting. Do you mind to compare your copies of the CV 28/1.5 and CV 28/2 in the mid zone? Specifically at the rule of 1/3rd’s at about 2-3 meters?
I ask because I am on the fence about keeping my 28/1.5 now, and I know my copy is centered, but I would just like some enforcement that my copy is behaving typically.
After shooting a few images today (see below), I re-read your post and realize you wanted direct comparisons between the two lenses, right? Are you referring to rendering or sharpness at the focus point?
LarsHP wrote:
Some images from today, the first day with sun since early November by my house (Tromsø, Northern Norway) :
BTW: Flare resistance is excellent in my book. I use a Zeiss UV filter, which may help (covering that silver ring).
And this is only the tip of the iceberg, as this is only ~2 m distance.
The Thypoch is always among the best in terms of bokeh rendering, same league as Sigma 28mm 1.4 Art and Nikon AF-S 28mm 1.4E.
This image doesn't make a lot of sense to me- It appears the Nokton image has far more in focus, behind it and in the corners-
If compare the letters above the statue- the sign to the far left and the chair etc in the building, all are far more in focus- If it was just the edges I could understand field curvature being to blamed but not directly behind the subject. What am I missing?
Great pictures, Lars!
Did you add/remove vignetting on any of those?
In your set (but also in general in the thread) the vignetting seems to be much more noticeable on some pictures at same aperture than others.
