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Archive 2023Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
p.8 #1Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Fred Miranda wrote:
You should get an idea of how well recent Voigtlander lenses 'sharpen up' if you check Fred's lens reviews. He provides 100% crops through the aperture range (but maybe only in full stops?). From my recollection, a lot of the recent lenses are already very sharp near wide open and you're usually only gaining depth of field and perhaps more even across-frame performance by stopping down.Yes and no.
The resolution of your sensor will determine the amount of diffraction *per pixel*, so if you are peeping at 1:1 it will be more obvious just because the higher resolution sensor is more magnified viewed at 1:1 (the pixels are smaller)
But at the image level diffraction is determined by the lens. Viewed onscreen or printed with the image dimensions the same, a high Rez and lower rez sensor will display the same dulling due to diffraction at small apertures.The way I understand this, diffraction is only determined by the size of the lens aperture. My point is that it begins when we close down the aperture. Therefore, if we have a super high MP sensor in the future, diffraction will be noticeable even earlier than what we currently see... In other words, higher megapixel sensors are not causing more diffraction, as many claim online -- they simply make the effects more noticeable at the pixel level.
Exactly, and the crucial phrase is “at the pixel level”
If you are comparing images displayed at the same physical dimensions (ie no of cm horizontal and vertical, not pixel dimensions) it won’t be more visible.
A lot of people (not Fred even though I’m replying to him) think that somehow a higher rez sensor will show diffraction more easily in a comparison of images displayed the same physical size, but this is not so. It’s only when the image is more *magnified*, whether by being printed or displayed larger, or viewed at 1:1
So how much does the increased visibility of diffraction *at the pixel level* matter?
To a first approximation the answer is not at all; the higher rez sensor will never make the image look worse .
More exactly it is a slight constraint on a reason you might want a higher res sensor: to make larger display sizes *viewed from the same distance*. They won’t be quite as sharp as you might have hoped because the larger display reveals diffraction more readily, so if that is your plan (displaying larger) and a wider aperture is consistent with your artistic intent, you might consider using a larger aperture. (If you plan to view larger display sizes from further away, which we usually do, once again it doesnt matter)
Even more exactly we are back to the rez havingbnothing to do with it (except more diffraction per pixel). What’s really going on here is ***more enlargement means more visible diffraction*** In one sense all a high Rez sensor does is tempt you to more enlargement - either by viewing the whole image larger or *by viewing st so-called life size*: the higher the sensor resolution the greater the magnification that is easily possible!
Here’s a thought experiment: imagine a godlike ideal print made with almost infinite resolution on a perfect lens set to some smaller aperture which diffracts.
Now we are going to take two photos of this print with a theoretically perfectly sharp f1.4 lens which introduces almost no further diffraction given it’s shot wide open. One with a high Rez sensor and one with a low Rez sensor.
Let’s view them at 1:1. The high Rez sensor will reveal more diffraction. Not from the sensor or the lens that took the photo: you have just magnified the photo on the wall more when you view the high Rez image at 1:1 compared to the lower rez one, and therefore see the diffraction more easily.
DavidBM wrote
rscheffler wrote
I believe viewable onset of diffraction is very dependent on the resolution of the sensor in your camera.You should get an idea of how well recent Voigtlander lenses 'sharpen up' if you check Fred's lens reviews. He provides 100% crops through the aperture range (but maybe only in full stops?). From my recollection, a lot of the recent lenses are already very sharp near wide open and you're usually only gaining depth of field and perhaps more even across-frame performance by stopping down.
The resolution of your sensor will determine the amount of diffraction *per pixel*, so if you are peeping at 1:1 it will be more obvious just because the higher resolution sensor is more magnified viewed at 1:1 (the pixels are smaller)
But at the image level diffraction is determined by the lens. Viewed onscreen or printed with the image dimensions the same, a high Rez and lower rez sensor will display the same dulling due to diffraction at small apertures.
Exactly, and the crucial phrase is “at the pixel level”
If you are comparing images displayed at the same physical dimensions (ie no of cm horizontal and vertical, not pixel dimensions) it won’t be more visible.
A lot of people (not Fred even though I’m replying to him) think that somehow a higher rez sensor will show diffraction more easily in a comparison of images displayed the same physical size, but this is not so. It’s only when the image is more *magnified*, whether by being printed or displayed larger, or viewed at 1:1
So how much does the increased visibility of diffraction *at the pixel level* matter?
To a first approximation the answer is not at all; the higher rez sensor will never make the image look worse .
More exactly it is a slight constraint on a reason you might want a higher res sensor: to make larger display sizes *viewed from the same distance*. They won’t be quite as sharp as you might have hoped because the larger display reveals diffraction more readily, so if that is your plan (displaying larger) and a wider aperture is consistent with your artistic intent, you might consider using a larger aperture. (If you plan to view larger display sizes from further away, which we usually do, once again it doesnt matter)
Even more exactly we are back to the rez havingbnothing to do with it (except more diffraction per pixel). What’s really going on here is ***more enlargement means more visible diffraction*** In one sense all a high Rez sensor does is tempt you to more enlargement - either by viewing the whole image larger or *by viewing st so-called life size*: the higher the sensor resolution the greater the magnification that is easily possible!
Here’s a thought experiment: imagine a godlike ideal print made with almost infinite resolution on a perfect lens set to some smaller aperture which diffracts.
Now we are going to take two photos of this print with a theoretically perfectly sharp f1.4 lens which introduces almost no further diffraction given it’s shot wide open. One with a high Rez sensor and one with a low Rez sensor.
Let’s view them at 1:1. The high Rez sensor will reveal more diffraction. Not from the sensor or the lens that took the photo: you have just magnified the photo on the wall more when you view the high Rez image at 1:1 compared to the lower rez one, and therefore see the diffraction more easily.
Jan 16, 2024 at 05:55 PM
p.8 #2Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Diffraction aside, I'll be very curious to see...
a) how much optical vignetting this lens has
b) are we getting the blistering micro-contrast of the 28/2 ASPH or the performance of the 35/1.5
I am curious about the lens rendering generally and performance. I hope coma correction is decent too.
a) how much optical vignetting this lens has
b) are we getting the blistering micro-contrast of the 28/2 ASPH or the performance of the 35/1.5
I am curious about the lens rendering generally and performance. I hope coma correction is decent too.
Jan 16, 2024 at 07:12 PM
p.8 #3Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Diffraction aside, I'll be very curious to see...
a) how much optical vignetting this lens has
b) are we getting the blistering micro-contrast of the 28/2 ASPH or the performance of the 35/1.5
I am curious about the lens rendering generally and performance. I hope coma correction is decent too.
I can't provide a detailed assessment of the lens until the production version is released, but I can answer your questions:
a) The optical vignetting appears to be less than expected. It seems similar to the Leica 28/2 cron rather than the 28/2 Ultron.
b) Based on the pre-production copy, its performance is closer to the 28/2 Ultron than the 35/1.5 Nokton. I'm impressed with its performance.
Diffraction aside, I'll be very curious to see...
a) how much optical vignetting this lens has
b) are we getting the blistering micro-contrast of the 28/2 ASPH or the performance of the 35/1.5
I am curious about the lens rendering generally and performance. I hope coma correction is decent too.
I can't provide a detailed assessment of the lens until the production version is released, but I can answer your questions:
a) The optical vignetting appears to be less than expected. It seems similar to the Leica 28/2 cron rather than the 28/2 Ultron.
b) Based on the pre-production copy, its performance is closer to the 28/2 Ultron than the 35/1.5 Nokton. I'm impressed with its performance.
Jan 16, 2024 at 07:41 PM
p.8 #4Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Thanks and I understand. That’s is super encouraging. I’ll probably pick one up.
I probably missed it. When is the official US release date?
I probably missed it. When is the official US release date?
Jan 16, 2024 at 08:10 PM
p.8 #5Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Thanks and I understand. That’s is super encouraging. I’ll probably pick one up.
I probably missed it. When is the official US release date?
I've heard it's on January 19th.
Thanks and I understand. That’s is super encouraging. I’ll probably pick one up.
I probably missed it. When is the official US release date?
I've heard it's on January 19th.
Jan 16, 2024 at 08:27 PM
p.8 #6Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Here's a sample taken wide open:
No post-correction for vignetting. This is pretty much straight from the camera.
No post-correction for vignetting. This is pretty much straight from the camera.
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LEICA M10-R Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens 28mm f/2.8 1/250s 100 ISO +0.7 EV
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LEICA M10-R Elmarit-M 1:2.8/21 lens 21mm f/2.8 1/250s 100 ISO +0.7 EV
Jan 16, 2024 at 08:48 PM
p.8 #7Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Fred Miranda wrote:
I can't provide a detailed assessment of the lens until the production version is released, but I can answer your questions:
a) The optical vignetting appears to be less than expected. It seems similar to the Leica 28/2 cron rather than the 28/2 Ultron.
b) Based on the pre-production copy, its performance is closer to the 28/2 Ultron than the 35/1.5 Nokton. I'm impressed with its performance.
Sounds like the Goldilocks of 28mm M lenses! Question IMO is whether it will have much copy variation. Can't say I was overly impressed with the VM28/2 I tried in this respect, compared to Fred's test results.
Looking forward to seeing the comparison against the 28 Lux!
I can't provide a detailed assessment of the lens until the production version is released, but I can answer your questions:
a) The optical vignetting appears to be less than expected. It seems similar to the Leica 28/2 cron rather than the 28/2 Ultron.
b) Based on the pre-production copy, its performance is closer to the 28/2 Ultron than the 35/1.5 Nokton. I'm impressed with its performance.
Sounds like the Goldilocks of 28mm M lenses! Question IMO is whether it will have much copy variation. Can't say I was overly impressed with the VM28/2 I tried in this respect, compared to Fred's test results.
Looking forward to seeing the comparison against the 28 Lux!
Jan 16, 2024 at 10:13 PM
p.8 #8Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Fred Miranda wrote:
a) how much optical vignetting this lens has
b) are we getting the blistering micro-contrast of the 28/2 ASPH or the performance of the 35/1.5
I am curious about the lens rendering generally and performance. I hope coma correction is decent too.I can't provide a detailed assessment of the lens until the production version is released, but I can answer your questions:
a) The optical vignetting appears to be less than expected. It seems similar to the Leica 28/2 cron rather than the 28/2 Ultron.
b) Based on the pre-production copy, its performance is closer to the 28/2 Ultron than the 35/1.5 Nokton. I'm impressed with its performance.
Wow sounds like it’d be a lovely lens for Sony users, but only with some stack adjustments. And they seem to have given up making two versions of lenses other than cosmetic rehousings..
nehemiahphoto wrote
Diffraction aside, I'll be very curious to see...a) how much optical vignetting this lens has
b) are we getting the blistering micro-contrast of the 28/2 ASPH or the performance of the 35/1.5
I am curious about the lens rendering generally and performance. I hope coma correction is decent too.
a) The optical vignetting appears to be less than expected. It seems similar to the Leica 28/2 cron rather than the 28/2 Ultron.
b) Based on the pre-production copy, its performance is closer to the 28/2 Ultron than the 35/1.5 Nokton. I'm impressed with its performance.
Wow sounds like it’d be a lovely lens for Sony users, but only with some stack adjustments. And they seem to have given up making two versions of lenses other than cosmetic rehousings..
Jan 17, 2024 at 12:42 AM
p.8 #9Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Fred Miranda wrote:
Here's a sample taken wide open:
No post-correction for vignetting. This is pretty much straight from the camera.
Is this shot WO? And, any other samples?
Lovely photo—I like the greens esp.
Here's a sample taken wide open:
No post-correction for vignetting. This is pretty much straight from the camera.
Is this shot WO? And, any other samples?
Lovely photo—I like the greens esp.Jan 17, 2024 at 02:28 AM
p.8 #10Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Fred Miranda wrote:
Here's a sample taken wide open:
No post-correction for vignetting. This is pretty much straight from the camera.
Gorgeous colors in this Fred. Oh, and cute couple.
Joe D
Here's a sample taken wide open:
No post-correction for vignetting. This is pretty much straight from the camera.
Gorgeous colors in this Fred. Oh, and cute couple.
Joe D
Jan 17, 2024 at 02:39 AM
p.8 #11Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
nehemiahphoto wrote:
No post-correction for vignetting. This is pretty much straight from the camera.Is this shot WO? And, any other samples? Lovely photo—I like the greens esp.
Yes, at f/1.5. I will post a couple more samples wide open.
Fred Miranda wrote
Here's a sample taken wide open:No post-correction for vignetting. This is pretty much straight from the camera.
Lovely photo—I like the greens esp.Yes, at f/1.5. I will post a couple more samples wide open.
Jan 17, 2024 at 09:26 AM
p.8 #12Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Hi Fred, you might have said this already. Do you code this lens as anything specific or just keep that as off? Thanks
Jan 17, 2024 at 11:43 AM
p.8 #13Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
MCMXCAD wrote:
Hi Fred, you might have said this already. Do you code this lens as anything specific or just keep that as off? Thanks
I leave the lens profile set to "off" for this lens because it's not my personal lens; it's just a pre-release (sample) version.
If it were my lens, I would code it to 28/1.4 Lux.
Hi Fred, you might have said this already. Do you code this lens as anything specific or just keep that as off? Thanks
I leave the lens profile set to "off" for this lens because it's not my personal lens; it's just a pre-release (sample) version.
If it were my lens, I would code it to 28/1.4 Lux.
Jan 17, 2024 at 11:47 AM
p.8 #14Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Looking at the image more closely, the horizon line is smoother in the central 2/3rds of the frame versus the outer 1/3. I wonder if we can get nissen bokeh (or doubling) of OOF areas in the outer portions of the frame. The 31 ltd had a very similar bokeh profile in that sense.
Jan 17, 2024 at 01:32 PM
p.8 #15Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Captured another shot with the background near the subject. Kept it wide open, without cropping, and without correcting for vignetting or chromatic aberration, just like the previous one.
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LEICA M10-R Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens 28mm f/2.8 1/125s 100 ISO -0.7 EV
Jan 17, 2024 at 04:46 PM
p.8 #16Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Here is a back-lit sample. Also wide open:
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LEICA M10-R Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens 28mm f/2.8 1/500s 100 ISO +0.7 EV
Jan 17, 2024 at 06:47 PM
p.8 #17Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
looks like great flare protection too.
Jan 17, 2024 at 07:39 PM
p.8 #18Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
It looks like a lovely option for environmental portraiture. I think I’ll like it a bit more than the VM 50/1.5 II with which it’ll be paired.
Jan 17, 2024 at 07:56 PM
p.8 #19Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Desmolicious wrote:
looks like great flare protection too.
This photo was captured with a better exposure for the sky, and there's a very slight flare, but I'm pushing it! I managed to recover some of the shadows on the subject.
looks like great flare protection too.
This photo was captured with a better exposure for the sky, and there's a very slight flare, but I'm pushing it! I managed to recover some of the shadows on the subject.
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LEICA M10-R Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton lens 28mm f/2.8 1/2000s 100 ISO +0.7 EV
Jan 17, 2024 at 09:32 PM
p.8 #20Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
I got shipping notice from Map Camera and my 28/1.5 (Black Type I) should arrive tomorrow morning. I will try to get some samples on my stock Sony A7CII tomorrow at lunch break but I'm quite busy with work this week. The weather looks good for tomorrow but on weekend it will turn bad...
Jan 18, 2024 at 03:00 AM