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Archive 2023Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
p.2 #1Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
One thing I like about using a digicam to scan film - apart from everything - is you can actually also use it as a camera! I know, right?!
Dec 15, 2023 at 11:25 AM
p.2 #2Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
Prior to moving to Negative Lab Pro for converting my negatives, I had to be careful with camera shake. The desk I use is fairly substantial but if it gets bumped during the capture, there would be blur. Once I moved to NLP, I have been able to use consistently higher shutter speeds and camera movement isn't uch of a problem. I use a IR remote with a three second delay.
The thing I really like about Negative Lab Pro is how much faster the capture and convert process has become. Since I'm only using B&W film, it will convert all of the images with a single click. The entire process from the first scan to posting on Flickr takes about forty five minutes.
The thing I really like about Negative Lab Pro is how much faster the capture and convert process has become. Since I'm only using B&W film, it will convert all of the images with a single click. The entire process from the first scan to posting on Flickr takes about forty five minutes.
Dec 15, 2023 at 01:35 PM
p.2 #3Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
Desmolicious wrote:
One thing I like about using a digicam to scan film - apart from everything - is you can actually also use it as a camera! I know, right?!
You can?! Maybe I need more than one lens!
One thing I like about using a digicam to scan film - apart from everything - is you can actually also use it as a camera! I know, right?!
You can?! Maybe I need more than one lens!
Dec 15, 2023 at 01:37 PM
p.2 #4Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
madNbad wrote:
You can?! Maybe I need more than one lens!
Why? That macro lens has a focus ring that goes all the way to infinity!
Desmolicious wrote
One thing I like about using a digicam to scan film - apart from everything - is you can actually also use it as a camera! I know, right?!Why? That macro lens has a focus ring that goes all the way to infinity!
Dec 15, 2023 at 01:41 PM
p.2 #5Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
Desmolicious wrote:
You can?! Maybe I need more than one lens!Why? That macro lens has a focus ring that goes all the way to infinity!
Before leaving for our cross country road trip this past June, I gave some serious thought to just taking the Sony. Sitting in my box of seldom used gear is a VG-C2EM battery grip with a RRS L bracket. When I was trading stuff with KEH, I had a FE 35 1.4 G in my cart but replaced it it with the hoodless black 50 2.5 Color Skopar LTM and a Leica LTM to M adapter. Every time I consider making the move to digital, I pick up the M4.
madNbad wrote
Desmolicious wrote
One thing I like about using a digicam to scan film - apart from everything - is you can actually also use it as a camera! I know, right?!Before leaving for our cross country road trip this past June, I gave some serious thought to just taking the Sony. Sitting in my box of seldom used gear is a VG-C2EM battery grip with a RRS L bracket. When I was trading stuff with KEH, I had a FE 35 1.4 G in my cart but replaced it it with the hoodless black 50 2.5 Color Skopar LTM and a Leica LTM to M adapter. Every time I consider making the move to digital, I pick up the M4.
Dec 15, 2023 at 02:36 PM
p.2 #6Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
Desmolicious wrote:
One thing I like about using a digicam to scan film - apart from everything - is you can actually also use it as a camera! I know, right?!
If I didn't have a backlog of photos to process, I would be doing just that -- generating some new film images to be scanned, scan them as a batch, then use the camera for other things, etc. That's a good thing, I know!
But I've got a lifetime backlog of positives and negatives to deal with -- so many that I think I'm going to need to dedicate a camera to a life on the copy stand so that I'm not constantly taking it down, putting it back up, recalibrating the setup, etc. I'm thinking that if I dedicate one camera to life on the copy stand, then I'm going to need a new camera to use as a camera.
That's a good thing, right? I mean, it's about as good a rationalization to buy a new camera as I can come up with.
One thing I like about using a digicam to scan film - apart from everything - is you can actually also use it as a camera! I know, right?!
If I didn't have a backlog of photos to process, I would be doing just that -- generating some new film images to be scanned, scan them as a batch, then use the camera for other things, etc. That's a good thing, I know!
But I've got a lifetime backlog of positives and negatives to deal with -- so many that I think I'm going to need to dedicate a camera to a life on the copy stand so that I'm not constantly taking it down, putting it back up, recalibrating the setup, etc. I'm thinking that if I dedicate one camera to life on the copy stand, then I'm going to need a new camera to use as a camera.
That's a good thing, right? I mean, it's about as good a rationalization to buy a new camera as I can come up with.
Dec 15, 2023 at 10:26 PM
p.2 #7Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
madNbad wrote:
Prior to moving to Negative Lab Pro for converting my negatives, I had to be careful with camera shake. The desk I use is fairly substantial but if it gets bumped during the capture, there would be blur. Once I moved to NLP, I have been able to use consistently higher shutter speeds and camera movement isn't uch of a problem. I use a IR remote with a three second delay.
The thing I really like about Negative Lab Pro is how much faster the capture and convert process has become. Since I'm only using B&W film, it will convert all...Show more →
I'm not sure that I follow -- what happened with your conversion to NLP that allowed you to use higher shutter speeds and avoid camera shake? Did you change your lighting?
I've just done some preliminary testing using a lightpad to illuminate the source image held in my Nikon ES-1 slide carrier. I am using a 60mm f/2.8 Micro AF on a D810. The setup requires that I use extension tubes between the camera/lens, and between the slide/lens to get a 1:1 reproduction ratio where I can fill the screen and I don't have to crop dark borders. The setup increases the effective f-number beyond what is shown on the camera. A setting of f/8 on the camera ends up being at least f/11 when the lens is close-focused without extension tubes, and is probably an even higher f-number due to the extension tubes' addition to the light path. I haven't done any bellows math to calculate the exact numbers, but I have seen aperture priority determine shutter speeds as long as 30sec at ISO 64 with the lens set to f/8.
Wow, those exposure durations are long! I'm sure that at least part of this comes from the use of 2 diffusion panels (one in the lightpad, one in the ES-1), but that's a LOT longer than Desmo's values of 1/2.5sec at f/11. In contrast, it's no problem to set the shutter to 1/250 using a studio strobe at minimal output. This gives me the impression that all of these little light pads are very convenient but their light output is but a drop in the ocean compared to a studio strobe.
Those ultra-long exposures have me worrying about environmental interference -- everything from stray light to vibrations. I'd really like to know what you're doing to cut your exposure durations down. I'm guessing that you'd have to be using a higher ISO or changing your light source.
Prior to moving to Negative Lab Pro for converting my negatives, I had to be careful with camera shake. The desk I use is fairly substantial but if it gets bumped during the capture, there would be blur. Once I moved to NLP, I have been able to use consistently higher shutter speeds and camera movement isn't uch of a problem. I use a IR remote with a three second delay.
The thing I really like about Negative Lab Pro is how much faster the capture and convert process has become. Since I'm only using B&W film, it will convert all...Show more →
I'm not sure that I follow -- what happened with your conversion to NLP that allowed you to use higher shutter speeds and avoid camera shake? Did you change your lighting?
I've just done some preliminary testing using a lightpad to illuminate the source image held in my Nikon ES-1 slide carrier. I am using a 60mm f/2.8 Micro AF on a D810. The setup requires that I use extension tubes between the camera/lens, and between the slide/lens to get a 1:1 reproduction ratio where I can fill the screen and I don't have to crop dark borders. The setup increases the effective f-number beyond what is shown on the camera. A setting of f/8 on the camera ends up being at least f/11 when the lens is close-focused without extension tubes, and is probably an even higher f-number due to the extension tubes' addition to the light path. I haven't done any bellows math to calculate the exact numbers, but I have seen aperture priority determine shutter speeds as long as 30sec at ISO 64 with the lens set to f/8.
Wow, those exposure durations are long! I'm sure that at least part of this comes from the use of 2 diffusion panels (one in the lightpad, one in the ES-1), but that's a LOT longer than Desmo's values of 1/2.5sec at f/11. In contrast, it's no problem to set the shutter to 1/250 using a studio strobe at minimal output. This gives me the impression that all of these little light pads are very convenient but their light output is but a drop in the ocean compared to a studio strobe.
Those ultra-long exposures have me worrying about environmental interference -- everything from stray light to vibrations. I'd really like to know what you're doing to cut your exposure durations down. I'm guessing that you'd have to be using a higher ISO or changing your light source.
Dec 15, 2023 at 10:38 PM
p.2 #8Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
I always leave the camera in Manual mode. My lightsource is a Negative Supply 5X7 Lightsource Pro 95 CRI. The lens is a Sony FE90 2.8 Macro set to F8. The ISO is set to 80. When I was using the previous conversation software, I was adjusting each capture to +1.7 EV to get a decent tonal range from a well developed negative. The exposures were often between 1/10 and 1/25 of a second and adjustment between each capture were a regular occurrence. Once I switched to Negative Lab Pro, it eliminated the need to adjust the EV and gets me closer to a regular meter reading. Gaining a couple of stops makes a big difference in shutter speeds. Now I’m averaging F8 @ 1/60th, getting better results with conversions that are done in a third of the time that was needed for the same results from the previous software. I hesitated to move to NLP because I really didn’t need everything Lightroom has to offer but now that I have it, I can’t believe how easy the process has become.
Dec 16, 2023 at 01:31 AM
p.2 #9Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
I prefer to shoot in M but for the digitization project I have been shooting in A to give the camera the opportunity to control exposure on the long exposures when using a lightpad. Depending on which tubes I'm using I've had to add +0 to +1.7 EV of bias on the meter to keep histograms pushed to the right. I think this is because of the larger effective f-number caused by my extension tubes. When I'm shooting with a strobe, I just use a fast exposure like 1/250 and "chimp" by varying the duration of the strobe until my histograms look good.
...but my brain is being slow on the uptake as I read your post. I can't figure out how a software change ended up giving you extra stops of light. That extra light had to come from somewhere, but I'm not following where you got it.
...but my brain is being slow on the uptake as I read your post. I can't figure out how a software change ended up giving you extra stops of light. That extra light had to come from somewhere, but I'm not following where you got it.
Dec 16, 2023 at 01:47 AM
p.2 #10Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
I prefer a film scanner with Vuescan to the camera approach. Small, self-contained, and connected to the computer. I like the workflow better, too.
I make digital contact sheets on a Porta-Trace light table with my GR III and scan a few per roll based on those sheets. I really enjoy the process of reviewing the contact sheets in LR and using the preview function of the scanner. It's probably slow for the Digital Age, but I like that.
I shoot BW almost exclusively, and the notion of sending my negatives through a color CMOS sensor with an AA filter and converting them to BW doesn't make sense to me. I've never been concerned with maximizing sharpness and detail, so scan quality, even if it is in fact less, is fine with me.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53401532688_1a24a75463_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53401805180_5948d9daf5_b.jpg
Edited on Dec 16, 2023 at 02:28 PM · View previous versions
I make digital contact sheets on a Porta-Trace light table with my GR III and scan a few per roll based on those sheets. I really enjoy the process of reviewing the contact sheets in LR and using the preview function of the scanner. It's probably slow for the Digital Age, but I like that.
I shoot BW almost exclusively, and the notion of sending my negatives through a color CMOS sensor with an AA filter and converting them to BW doesn't make sense to me. I've never been concerned with maximizing sharpness and detail, so scan quality, even if it is in fact less, is fine with me.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53401532688_1a24a75463_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53401805180_5948d9daf5_b.jpg
Edited on Dec 16, 2023 at 02:28 PM · View previous versions
Dec 16, 2023 at 08:49 AM
p.2 #11Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
My setup is similar to Desmolicious‘. I use Nikon D850 for the digital camera and mount it on a tripod instead of handholding it. As for the light source, I use Negative Supply’s 8x10 Light Source Pro with 99 CRI that I purchased here at the forum a while ago.
Dec 16, 2023 at 09:30 AM
p.2 #12Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
@richyirich, Your setup sounds like it could be close to mine so I'm going to ask a few questions. Right now I'm using a D810 with the 60mm AF-D and ES-1 to scan slides only, and either a strobe or a NS lightpad. So which lens are you using? 60mm AF-D or AF-S or something else? And an ES-2 with the NS Light Source Pro 99? ASA 64?
What kind of exposures are you using? I've tried using both a brand new NS LightSource Mini (the brand new one that is supposed to be several stops brighter than the 4x5 that it replaces) or a studio flash. I mentioned previously that the LSMini appears pretty bright when I look at it with the naked eye, but the sensor on my D810 doesn't agree. It uses long long exposures... so I'd like to know how your D850 setup compares: which lens you're using, whether it's forced you to add extension tubes, what kind of exposures, etc.
edit -- Also, what sort of tubes are you having to use with your lens and film holder setup? The instructions from Nikon are sparse, and with the 60mm AF-D I can't get the viewfinder filled when using the lens directly mounted to the camera irrespective of what type of extensions I use on the slide carrier. I've had to add a manual/dumb extension ring between the camera/lens to allow me to pull the image close enough to fill the viewfinder, which causes me to lose communication with the lens.
I don't know if the AF-S lens behaves the same way, as Desmo's photos give me the impression that the extension ring on the camera isn't necessary. Is that right Desmo? Are you able to fill the viewfinder without using an extension tube?
Edited on Dec 16, 2023 at 01:26 PM · View previous versions
What kind of exposures are you using? I've tried using both a brand new NS LightSource Mini (the brand new one that is supposed to be several stops brighter than the 4x5 that it replaces) or a studio flash. I mentioned previously that the LSMini appears pretty bright when I look at it with the naked eye, but the sensor on my D810 doesn't agree. It uses long long exposures... so I'd like to know how your D850 setup compares: which lens you're using, whether it's forced you to add extension tubes, what kind of exposures, etc.
edit -- Also, what sort of tubes are you having to use with your lens and film holder setup? The instructions from Nikon are sparse, and with the 60mm AF-D I can't get the viewfinder filled when using the lens directly mounted to the camera irrespective of what type of extensions I use on the slide carrier. I've had to add a manual/dumb extension ring between the camera/lens to allow me to pull the image close enough to fill the viewfinder, which causes me to lose communication with the lens.
I don't know if the AF-S lens behaves the same way, as Desmo's photos give me the impression that the extension ring on the camera isn't necessary. Is that right Desmo? Are you able to fill the viewfinder without using an extension tube?
Edited on Dec 16, 2023 at 01:26 PM · View previous versions
Dec 16, 2023 at 01:17 PM
p.2 #13Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
coralnut wrote:
@richyirich@, Your setup sounds like it could be close to mine so I'm going to ask a few questions. Right now I'm using a D810 with the 60mm AF-D and ES-1 to scan slides only. So which lens are you using? 60mm AF-D or AF-S or something else? And an ES-2 with the NS Light Source Pro 99?
What kind of exposures are you using? I've tried using both a brand new LightSource Mini (the brand new one that is supposed to be several stops brighter than the 4x5 that it replaces) and a studio flash. I mentioned previously that the...Show more →
What conversion software are you using?
@richyirich@, Your setup sounds like it could be close to mine so I'm going to ask a few questions. Right now I'm using a D810 with the 60mm AF-D and ES-1 to scan slides only. So which lens are you using? 60mm AF-D or AF-S or something else? And an ES-2 with the NS Light Source Pro 99?
What kind of exposures are you using? I've tried using both a brand new LightSource Mini (the brand new one that is supposed to be several stops brighter than the 4x5 that it replaces) and a studio flash. I mentioned previously that the...Show more →
What conversion software are you using?
Dec 16, 2023 at 01:19 PM
p.2 #14Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
I'm not sure what you mean by "conversion" software, as I'm shooting slides and I'm not sure what "conversion" really means -- when I hear "conversion" I'm thinking that's part of the negative-only workflow, to convert negatives into positives, right? When I shoot slides, I can copy them SOOC.
Dec 16, 2023 at 01:28 PM
p.2 #15Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
coralnut wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "conversion" software, as I'm shooting slides and I'm not sure what "conversion" really means -- when I hear "conversion" I'm thinking that's part of the negative-only workflow, to convert negatives into positives, right? When I shoot slides, I can copy them SOOC.
Yeah, conversion software to invert color negatives and remove the orange mask. You don't need that for black and white negs as all you have to do is invert, but, if you're adventurous and have an understanding of Photoshop or Capture One, it's not all that hard to get really great color neg conversions with either of those two programs.
By far the best color neg conversion program I've used is the drum scanning software Trident, and while I *think* it can open files without being attached to the scanner I haven't tried it and it'd be a pain in the ass anyway as it's on an orphaned (as in not networkable to newer computers) Mac tower running OS 9.2.2, but maybe that'll be a project for me to try in the new year.
I'm not sure what you mean by "conversion" software, as I'm shooting slides and I'm not sure what "conversion" really means -- when I hear "conversion" I'm thinking that's part of the negative-only workflow, to convert negatives into positives, right? When I shoot slides, I can copy them SOOC.
Yeah, conversion software to invert color negatives and remove the orange mask. You don't need that for black and white negs as all you have to do is invert, but, if you're adventurous and have an understanding of Photoshop or Capture One, it's not all that hard to get really great color neg conversions with either of those two programs.
By far the best color neg conversion program I've used is the drum scanning software Trident, and while I *think* it can open files without being attached to the scanner I haven't tried it and it'd be a pain in the ass anyway as it's on an orphaned (as in not networkable to newer computers) Mac tower running OS 9.2.2, but maybe that'll be a project for me to try in the new year.
Dec 16, 2023 at 01:45 PM
p.2 #16Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
coralnut wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "conversion" software, as I'm shooting slides and I'm not sure what "conversion" really means -- when I hear "conversion" I'm thinking that's part of the negative-only workflow, to convert negatives into positives, right? When I shoot slides, I can copy them SOOC.
So, let me see if I have this right: you're using a Nikon D810 with a 60mm AF-D Macro, an ES-1 slide copier attachment and a Negative Supply 4X5 Lightsource to digitize your slide collection. Both the ES-1 and ES-2 mount to the front of a Nikkor macro lens and have a bit of adjustment to let the user align and center the slide. I'm not sure why you have an extension ring. I know the manual focus 55 Micro-Nikkor's needed one to achieve 1:1 but I don't know about the AF Nikkor's. The AF lens will take care of the focusing and at a base ISO of 64 and setting the F stop at 8 will give you fairly low shutter speeds. Since all you are really doing is making a digital capture of the slide, any post processing software for editing digital photos will work.
You could raise the ISO, still have a decent capture and a higher shutter speed. A copy stand and a IR remote will help eliminate camera shake.
I'm not sure what you mean by "conversion" software, as I'm shooting slides and I'm not sure what "conversion" really means -- when I hear "conversion" I'm thinking that's part of the negative-only workflow, to convert negatives into positives, right? When I shoot slides, I can copy them SOOC.
So, let me see if I have this right: you're using a Nikon D810 with a 60mm AF-D Macro, an ES-1 slide copier attachment and a Negative Supply 4X5 Lightsource to digitize your slide collection. Both the ES-1 and ES-2 mount to the front of a Nikkor macro lens and have a bit of adjustment to let the user align and center the slide. I'm not sure why you have an extension ring. I know the manual focus 55 Micro-Nikkor's needed one to achieve 1:1 but I don't know about the AF Nikkor's. The AF lens will take care of the focusing and at a base ISO of 64 and setting the F stop at 8 will give you fairly low shutter speeds. Since all you are really doing is making a digital capture of the slide, any post processing software for editing digital photos will work.
You could raise the ISO, still have a decent capture and a higher shutter speed. A copy stand and a IR remote will help eliminate camera shake.
Dec 16, 2023 at 02:12 PM
p.2 #17Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
yes, I'm doing all the textbook things that you're supposed to do -- mount on a heavy copy stand, mirror up w/remote release, shoot at the optimal lens aperture to avoid the diffraction limited aperture effects caused by pixel size/sensor density (f/8 on a D810), low ISO, fastest possible shutter. But what I'm finding is that even the expensive high-output light boxes are a poor substitute for a strobe, as the exposures are always long with the light boxes (as long as many seconds) compared to the strobe (shutter speed of 1/250 is excessive; the strobe duration actually controls the exposure).
My points of confusion about the process so far boil down to two areas:
1. Lighting.
How much light is enough, and what's the best way to provide it?
It seems that everyone likes the convenience of cheap light panels (or expensive light panels) that require long exposures instead of using a strobe. That surprised me, I had expected that every professional would be using a strobe.
When it comes to getting the right exposure my experience is that I can trust the camera to make the correct metering decisions even when extension tubes come into play. Even if I bracket 7 exposures in 0.3 stop increments to be certain, the D810 meter is usually accurate and the best exposure is in the middle of the series. Sometimes I add a little bias to push the exposure to histogram-right.
I'm actually quite surprised to hear that so many people accept the scenario that it's OK to use light pads that produce so little output that you have to resort to long exposures. I had expected that it would be amateurish for me to do things that way as they're "wrong" from my old-school textbook perspective, so I've thought of using a strobe from the beginning. I thought of light pads as more of a marketing gimmick than an optimal solution. My background tells me to always use a flash and a brief exposure to limit the opportunities for extraneous factors to corrupt the capture process. I'm really surprised to hear that so many people have adopted the light pad method just because it's easy and it works. The news that I'm not thinking of doing things the way everyone else is actually doing them makes me question my knowledge, as what I think constitutes the right way to do things appears to be violating the consensus of opinion.
2. Need for Extension Tubes.
Nikon ES-1 Slide Copying Adapter - Documentation
Nikon documentation on the use of extension tubes with the ES-1 isn't particularly clear in answering my question. Yes, they recommend a PK-13 when using the 55mm Micro, just because it has only a 1:2 native reproduction ratio and the PK13 is necessary to achieve 1:1.
The 60mm Micro AF-D claims to have a 1:1 RR, as does the AF-S, but in my experience it's just not true for the AF-D.
I can set my AF-D at the close focusing distance and move the ES-1 so that the slide maximally fills the viewfinder while remaining in focus, but I run beyond the close-focus limit of the lens before completely filling the viewfinder. Without an extension tube I get sharp captures with a decent, albeit incomplete utilization of my D810 sensor. I end up with slide images that have dark bands around the edges because I'm not utilizing the full sensor when mounting the AF-D directly to camera.
To fill the viewfinder/sensor while maintaining focus I have to add a small extension tube. The 5.8mm K1 ring between the camera / lens (which Nikon warns not to use with a chipped lens) gives just enough extension for me to fill the frame, which in turn requires some additional extension between the lens and slide to allow the proper zooming and focusing distance.
The Nikon documentation is poor -- They advertise the 60mm f/2.8 Micro AF-D as having a 1:1 RR but the reality is that it doesn't if you're trying to copy slides with the ES-1. The fact that the ES-1 documentation tells you that an extension ring is required when using the AF-D is a tacit admission that the lens doesn't really have a 1:1 RR suitable for slide copying, as you won't get a full sensor if you use no extension rings. Nikon doesn't readily specify that the AF-D doesn't truly provide a 1:1 RR that's sufficient for slide duplication if you use no extension rings, or that the claimed 1:1 RR for the lens is a bit of an exaggeration.
I don't know about the AF-S (maybe Desmo can answer this) but I imagine it behaves identically to the AF-D. If that's the case, then I'm guessing that people who mount the lens directly to the camera w/o an extension tube are doing so out of convenience to maintain AF and metering and they are getting black borders that they are willing to live with (crop). I've chosen to use a dumb extension tube, which helps me utilize 100% of the sensor, but I do that at the expense of losing the convenience of AF and some metering modes by using a dumb ring. I might be able to use one of the PK series extension rings to regain metering, but there's no good extension tube solution that maintains AF.
If the AF-S does not behave similarly to the AF-D, and the AF-S could solve this problem then I would buy one. But if the AF-S behaves just like the AF-D that will be a wasted effort. So it would really help to determine if people using the AF-S w/o extension rings are just accepting good-enough performance like I get with the AF-D and no extension rings. But instead of accepting "good enough", where I'm not filling the sensor, my OCD nature makes me search out a solution where I can completely utilize the full sensor.
My points of confusion about the process so far boil down to two areas:
1. Lighting.
How much light is enough, and what's the best way to provide it?
It seems that everyone likes the convenience of cheap light panels (or expensive light panels) that require long exposures instead of using a strobe. That surprised me, I had expected that every professional would be using a strobe.
When it comes to getting the right exposure my experience is that I can trust the camera to make the correct metering decisions even when extension tubes come into play. Even if I bracket 7 exposures in 0.3 stop increments to be certain, the D810 meter is usually accurate and the best exposure is in the middle of the series. Sometimes I add a little bias to push the exposure to histogram-right.
I'm actually quite surprised to hear that so many people accept the scenario that it's OK to use light pads that produce so little output that you have to resort to long exposures. I had expected that it would be amateurish for me to do things that way as they're "wrong" from my old-school textbook perspective, so I've thought of using a strobe from the beginning. I thought of light pads as more of a marketing gimmick than an optimal solution. My background tells me to always use a flash and a brief exposure to limit the opportunities for extraneous factors to corrupt the capture process. I'm really surprised to hear that so many people have adopted the light pad method just because it's easy and it works. The news that I'm not thinking of doing things the way everyone else is actually doing them makes me question my knowledge, as what I think constitutes the right way to do things appears to be violating the consensus of opinion.
2. Need for Extension Tubes.
Nikon ES-1 Slide Copying Adapter - Documentation
Nikon documentation on the use of extension tubes with the ES-1 isn't particularly clear in answering my question. Yes, they recommend a PK-13 when using the 55mm Micro, just because it has only a 1:2 native reproduction ratio and the PK13 is necessary to achieve 1:1.
The 60mm Micro AF-D claims to have a 1:1 RR, as does the AF-S, but in my experience it's just not true for the AF-D.
I can set my AF-D at the close focusing distance and move the ES-1 so that the slide maximally fills the viewfinder while remaining in focus, but I run beyond the close-focus limit of the lens before completely filling the viewfinder. Without an extension tube I get sharp captures with a decent, albeit incomplete utilization of my D810 sensor. I end up with slide images that have dark bands around the edges because I'm not utilizing the full sensor when mounting the AF-D directly to camera.
To fill the viewfinder/sensor while maintaining focus I have to add a small extension tube. The 5.8mm K1 ring between the camera / lens (which Nikon warns not to use with a chipped lens) gives just enough extension for me to fill the frame, which in turn requires some additional extension between the lens and slide to allow the proper zooming and focusing distance.
The Nikon documentation is poor -- They advertise the 60mm f/2.8 Micro AF-D as having a 1:1 RR but the reality is that it doesn't if you're trying to copy slides with the ES-1. The fact that the ES-1 documentation tells you that an extension ring is required when using the AF-D is a tacit admission that the lens doesn't really have a 1:1 RR suitable for slide copying, as you won't get a full sensor if you use no extension rings. Nikon doesn't readily specify that the AF-D doesn't truly provide a 1:1 RR that's sufficient for slide duplication if you use no extension rings, or that the claimed 1:1 RR for the lens is a bit of an exaggeration.
I don't know about the AF-S (maybe Desmo can answer this) but I imagine it behaves identically to the AF-D. If that's the case, then I'm guessing that people who mount the lens directly to the camera w/o an extension tube are doing so out of convenience to maintain AF and metering and they are getting black borders that they are willing to live with (crop). I've chosen to use a dumb extension tube, which helps me utilize 100% of the sensor, but I do that at the expense of losing the convenience of AF and some metering modes by using a dumb ring. I might be able to use one of the PK series extension rings to regain metering, but there's no good extension tube solution that maintains AF.
If the AF-S does not behave similarly to the AF-D, and the AF-S could solve this problem then I would buy one. But if the AF-S behaves just like the AF-D that will be a wasted effort. So it would really help to determine if people using the AF-S w/o extension rings are just accepting good-enough performance like I get with the AF-D and no extension rings. But instead of accepting "good enough", where I'm not filling the sensor, my OCD nature makes me search out a solution where I can completely utilize the full sensor.
Dec 16, 2023 at 10:17 PM
p.2 #18Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
coralnut wrote:
@richyirich@, Your setup sounds like it could be close to mine so I'm going to ask a few questions. Right now I'm using a D810 with the 60mm AF-D and ES-1 to scan slides only, and either a strobe or a NS lightpad. So which lens are you using? 60mm AF-D or AF-S or something else? And an ES-2 with the NS Light Source Pro 99? ASA 64?
What kind of exposures are you using? I've tried using both a brand new NS LightSource Mini (the brand new one that is supposed to be several stops brighter than the 4x5 that...Show more →
@coralnut, I use Nikon AF-S Micro NIKKOR 60mm f/2.8G ED, made in Japan (if that matters to you).
Nate at Negative Lab Pro suggested to overexpose by 1 stop when scanning with a digital camera to extract as much detail from the negative as possible so that's what I've been doing. Because D850 is a DSLR, I chose to mount it on a tripod in order to shoot at slower shutter speeds. I haven't scanned in a while, but I believe I set the lens at f/8.
I don't use any tubes. When scanning, I close the window blind and door to my office and turn off all the lights except the light source to scan the negatives.
@richyirich@, Your setup sounds like it could be close to mine so I'm going to ask a few questions. Right now I'm using a D810 with the 60mm AF-D and ES-1 to scan slides only, and either a strobe or a NS lightpad. So which lens are you using? 60mm AF-D or AF-S or something else? And an ES-2 with the NS Light Source Pro 99? ASA 64?
What kind of exposures are you using? I've tried using both a brand new NS LightSource Mini (the brand new one that is supposed to be several stops brighter than the 4x5 that...Show more →
@coralnut, I use Nikon AF-S Micro NIKKOR 60mm f/2.8G ED, made in Japan (if that matters to you).
Nate at Negative Lab Pro suggested to overexpose by 1 stop when scanning with a digital camera to extract as much detail from the negative as possible so that's what I've been doing. Because D850 is a DSLR, I chose to mount it on a tripod in order to shoot at slower shutter speeds. I haven't scanned in a while, but I believe I set the lens at f/8.
I don't use any tubes. When scanning, I close the window blind and door to my office and turn off all the lights except the light source to scan the negatives.
Dec 17, 2023 at 08:27 AM
p.2 #19Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
So we've got one person using the Japanese AF-S lens to compare their setup to my Japanese AF-D lens setup. Thanks.
As I understand you're using the following:
* D850
* 60mm AF-S
* ES-2
* NS Light Source
* No extension tubes
Are you getting complete fill-up of the sensor at 1:1 or are you getting some banding around the edges?
How long are your exposures at f/8 with the NS light source? (Mine were very long)
Instead of just using a +1 stop rule, I look at the histograms after a test image. I bias the EV offset positive to push the histogram to the right while being careful to avoid clipping the highlights. This allows me to pull the most detail out of the shadows without overexposing the highlights. The EV offsets that I use have been anywhere from +0.0 EV to +1.7 EV depending on lighting.
I know that some people think of this as extreme, but I also try to match the color temp of my light source to the color temp at which the slides were exposed. This can be difficult when mixed lighting was used. We had a lot of tungsten interior lighting back in the day.
Sometimes I use the NS light pad, but I am experimenting with a studio flash when the source image was captured with flash or daylight. That gives me a fast exposure. If the source image is tungsten balanced, I avoid the light pad and the strobe, and just use a longer exposure using the strobe's tungsten modelling light and a longer exposure. So far the colors have turned out OK, without alot of need for fussing with light balance in post.
It seems that the vast majority of people have adopted high CRI light pads and longer exposures just for the convenience factor.
As I understand you're using the following:
* D850
* 60mm AF-S
* ES-2
* NS Light Source
* No extension tubes
Are you getting complete fill-up of the sensor at 1:1 or are you getting some banding around the edges?
How long are your exposures at f/8 with the NS light source? (Mine were very long)
Instead of just using a +1 stop rule, I look at the histograms after a test image. I bias the EV offset positive to push the histogram to the right while being careful to avoid clipping the highlights. This allows me to pull the most detail out of the shadows without overexposing the highlights. The EV offsets that I use have been anywhere from +0.0 EV to +1.7 EV depending on lighting.
I know that some people think of this as extreme, but I also try to match the color temp of my light source to the color temp at which the slides were exposed. This can be difficult when mixed lighting was used. We had a lot of tungsten interior lighting back in the day.
Sometimes I use the NS light pad, but I am experimenting with a studio flash when the source image was captured with flash or daylight. That gives me a fast exposure. If the source image is tungsten balanced, I avoid the light pad and the strobe, and just use a longer exposure using the strobe's tungsten modelling light and a longer exposure. So far the colors have turned out OK, without alot of need for fussing with light balance in post.
It seems that the vast majority of people have adopted high CRI light pads and longer exposures just for the convenience factor.
Dec 17, 2023 at 09:24 AM
p.2 #20Recent Film Shots -- How are You Digitizing?
I get some banding around the edges, but I tend to crop during post-processing using Adobe Lightroom so I don't worry about it.
I believe the shutter speeds were hovering at around 1/2 second at f/8 when I was scanning a few months ago.
I'm not a professional photographer; just a hobbyist with limited equipment. After many tries and failures, this is the setup that produced the best results so I've been sticking with it. I even made a zine using this setup.
I believe the shutter speeds were hovering at around 1/2 second at f/8 when I was scanning a few months ago.
I'm not a professional photographer; just a hobbyist with limited equipment. After many tries and failures, this is the setup that produced the best results so I've been sticking with it. I even made a zine using this setup.
Dec 17, 2023 at 10:12 AM