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Canon 5Ds R vs R5

  
 
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Rajan Parrikar wrote:
Just to remind exactly one - the OP specified that he is seeking opinions from only those people who have used both the cameras.


Dear forum mom,

Deepest apologies for for missing the word "only" in the OP's post.

Oh, wait, you made that up. ;-)



Sep 17, 2023 at 10:50 AM
sebjmatthews
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


There's no reason to expect to get noticeably different image quality when shooting the same scene with a 5DSR and an R5 [at most ISOs. Any difference in portrait rendering is more likely due to the lighting, styling, file processing and/or lens used.

I've had the 5DSR in years past and currently have an R5, and I couldn't possibly spot the difference between the images under ISO 3200 and normal viewing sizes/distances, although if you really pixel-peep then at ISO 100 the 5DSR is a fraction better than the R5; not only do you have that tiny resolution difference and no AA filter (though the R5's AA filter is very weak), but there's less 'baked in' noise reduction in the 5DSR. (Yes, the R5 enforces some noise reduction even if you shoot raw and even at ISO 100.)
On the other side of that, the R5 is, unsurprisingly, cleaner and retains more latitude and dynamic range at ISO 3200-6400. I used to be happy to use the 5DSR up to ISO 1600 without problem and 3200 if I was desperate—though now my standards are probably a bit higher and I might not tolerate that at all these days—while the R5 I'm happy to use at ISO 6400 if I have no other options.
In other words, I consider the image quality to be negligibly better on the 5DSR at ISO 100, it's a dead tie from 200-2500, the R5 has a slight advantage at 3200, and at 6400 I find the R5 barely acceptable while the 5DSR was, in my opinion, completely useless.

(For reference, there isn't a single camera in the world which I consider clean enough to use at 12800+, and the only cameras that I've used that I'd rate better at 6400 than the R5 are the R3 and the GFX100. Of course, your own tolerances for noise, colour fidelity and so on may vary, and so you may tolerate higher/lower ISOs than I do.)

I haven't had the 5DSR in a few years, so I may not remember the focus and other functionality with 100% accuracy, but as I remember it, single-point focus was just as good as on the R5. In my experience the R5's various tracking modes are too-easily fooled and unreliable, so I only use them sporadically and would not consider them a major enough difference to choose it over the 5DSR. Much like ISO, it's a compromise. The R5 doesn't need MFA and when it does actually lock-on to what I want, it is a much slicker experience than with any SLR. On the other hand, the 5DSR (and any other SLR, frankly) was more consistent in operation, so even though it feels a bit cruder and you need to tweak every lens to focus perfectly, at least it never thought a bit of cloud was an eyeball!

Everything else is a matter of personal preference. Some people adore the EVF, others prefer an OVF; I could go either way depending on the shooting scenario, and for portraits it doesn't make the slightest difference to me. Some people are bothered about the R5's battery life, while others will be more bothered by the 5DSR's size. Some people will find the 5DSR too slow, others will find they never get any use out of the R5's speed or even find it harder to control.

Which is all to say, if someone took my R5 away today and gave me a 5DSR again instead, it wouldn't really make a practical difference to me. They're very, very even.

Since OP has an R5 anyway, I see no really compelling reason to get a 5DSR. By the same token, if someone had a 5DSR and was thinking of getting an R5, I'd tell them there's not much point, either.


If you've seen some portraits you really like the look of, as far as gear goes you should check what lens was used, and what (if any) filters. Also consider the lighting, make up, posing, and processing. All of those things can be copied by anyone using any camera body. I would never credit a portrait's appeal to the particular camera body that was used. Camera bodies can make a helluva difference to wildlife and landscape photography, but for portraits the camera body is just about the least relevant part.

Case in point, I recently saw some portraits by Arisak, a Japanese fashion photographer. Her subject matter isn't to my taste—a bit too 'weird for the sake of weird'—but her shooting style is fantastic to me and all her images really jump out. She uses a 5D mark IV and Sigma f/2.8 zooms. Given she's a studio shooter, she's probably always at base ISO; an R5 or a 5DSR would blow away the 5D4's image quality at ISO 100. Similarly, the latest generation of Canon L f/2.8 zooms blow away the Sigmas. She shoots for GQ and Vogue, so clearly she could get the 'better' gear if she really wanted. But does it really matter? She may be using B-tier lenses and an 'out-of-date', lower-resolution camera, but her picture quality sure blows anything I've ever done way out of the water. That's entirely down to her lighting, her posing, how she directs the stylists, and how she edits. The fact she has 'only' 30mp with a heavy AA filter, and third-party zooms at apertures past the diffraction limit, doesn't mean her photos are lacking anything. Handing her an R5 or 5DSR probably would not change a single thing about her results.

Don't bank on buying another toy to automatically make your portraits more captivating. A lens will make a bit more difference than a body, but it'll still be small. Lighting will make more of a difference than any lens or body. Styling will make a huge difference. Editing makes a gigantic difference. Posing and composition makes the biggest difference.



Sep 17, 2023 at 11:47 AM
Imagemaster
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Rajan Parrikar wrote:
Just to remind exactly one - the OP specified that he is seeking opinions from only those people who have used both the cameras.


There are always the few that simply disregard what the OP asks for and feel compelled to put in their two cents worth. Just look at who has spewed out the most words yet has not used both cameras.



Sep 17, 2023 at 01:24 PM
PhilPDX
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


stanj wrote:
As for image quality, I think that greatly depends on the ISO you're using and if you need AF to get the shot.


Agreed. I shoot mostly macro, handheld with manual focusing most of the time. The combination 5Ds/ EF 100mm L is clearly better (IMHO) when it comes to image quality than the combo R5/ RF 100 macro. One factor might of course be that I'm much more used to the 5Ds than to mirrorless.

-Phil




Sep 17, 2023 at 02:15 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


PhilPDX wrote:
I shoot mostly macro, handheld with manual focusing most of the time. The combination 5Ds/ EF 100mm L is clearly better (IMHO) when it comes to image quality than the combo R5/ RF 100 macro. One factor might of course be that I'm much more used to the 5Ds than to mirrorless.


There are two photographers in our household and one of us uses an R body... and is largely (pun not intended) a macro photographer who used and loved the EF 100mm f/2.8L IS macro (I have it now), but switched to the RF version of the 100mm macro (along with another RF macro) and likes it quite a bit.

As someone who uses a (non-Canon) mirrorless system and the 5DsR, I agree that you might be influenced by your lower level of familiarity with your mirrorless body.

sebjmatthews wrote:
There's no reason to expect to get noticeably different image quality when shooting the same scene with a 5DSR and an R5 [at most ISOs. Any difference in portrait rendering is more likely due to the lighting, styling, file processing and/or lens used.
..


With only a few extremely minor quibbles, this mirrors my opinion about the OP's question and about the things that do and do not lead to photographic "magic."

But expect a visit from the "too many words" forum police! ;-)

YMMV.



Sep 17, 2023 at 02:38 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


I downloaded the iso 6400 5DsR and 5D4 off the DPR tool. No difference. Did a thread if anyone is interested.

Sure 5DsR has smaller pixels and more noise, but you're probably going to use NR on 6400 anyway. And they looked the same after NR. And that's before any discussion of resizing to get rid of noise, which is also possible

IIRC the 5Ds has a higher iso setting, up to ~25600, 5DsR 12800. So if you're interested in high iso the 5Ds might be better.



Sep 18, 2023 at 12:15 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


5Ds and 5DsR have exactly the same ISO ranges. Both go to 12800.

It is easy to look this stuff up.



Sep 18, 2023 at 04:10 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5




gdanmitchell wrote:
It is easy to look this stuff up.


Thanks. So much.



Sep 18, 2023 at 06:43 PM
johnvanr
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


BokehBeauty wrote:
Thank you, what do you mean by the following sentence

Also, my most liked lenses are Zeiss ZE. How is manual focusing on the 5Ds(R)? On the 5D Mk II I had the EG-S focusing screen.


Manual focusing EF lenses on the R5 is way, way, way better than on any Canon DSLR.



Sep 18, 2023 at 07:07 PM
johnvanr
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Imagemaster wrote:
There are always the few that simply disregard what the OP asks for and feel compelled to put in their two cents worth. Just look at who has spewed out the most words yet has not used both cameras.


There’s one person no one can beat on word usage…



Sep 18, 2023 at 07:09 PM
 


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Rajan Parrikar
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


johnvanr wrote:
There’s one person no one can beat on word usage…


May I rephrase for accuracy?: There’s one man-child no one can beat on word usage…



Sep 19, 2023 at 02:21 AM
johnvanr
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Rajan Parrikar wrote:
May I rephrase for accuracy?:


We all have our hang ups, though. One can almost predict who is going to say what in a thread, at least where the regulars are concerned. If it wasn’t too personal, you could devise a game where others have to guess who said what.



Sep 19, 2023 at 05:45 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Rajan, you’re SO cute when you get triggered!

Again.

I still occasionally wonder what the actual hell set you off on this perverse, obsessive, stalking mission about my posts so many years back. Probably something to discuss with your therapist.

Edited on Dec 29, 2023 at 12:05 AM · View previous versions



Sep 19, 2023 at 10:47 AM
jcolwell
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Really. How's about we show our new members from DPR a bit more maturity?

It's time to move on.



Sep 19, 2023 at 11:12 AM
wwwest
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


sebjmatthews wrote:
A lens will make a bit more difference than a body, but it'll still be small. Lighting will make more of a difference than any lens or body. Styling will make a huge difference. Editing makes a gigantic difference. Posing and composition makes the biggest difference.


I liked a lot of what you said and in particular was thinking along the same lines myself. I used commercially all the 1Ds series as they came out, like the first available each time, and then the 5D3 and then of course the 5DSR which was a real game changer for my work in architectural photography. That body was transformative just like canon finally bringing out the 17 TSe and newer/much better 24 tse mk II and 50 tse.

However, for my work in particular, the R5 presented a benefit not so much about "it" but more about work flow and that was by way of the EF to RF lens mount adapter where you could have a CPL behind the wide 17tse which was always problematic to filter in front. I had the various ways of doing so as they finally hit the market but behind is SO much easier.

My work of course was only base iso, f11-16, and often lit for interiors and always on a tripod so high iso and even noise were irrelevant as was dynamic range because even at 14 or more like other cameras, I'd still have to layer together at least a few exposures for high, medium, low zones.

I actually never "needed" the R5, and more precisely, only tested for a year the R5C because I instead went into the Fuji gfx 100s for obvious reasons which made the 5dsr vs r5 pondering somewhat pointless.

What's funny is that I only found this thread because after selling my 5dsr to a friend that i'd had since they were first released, i had two actually for dual twilight set-ups, i recently wondered if i should just have one as a backup/alt that is easily native to the EF tse lenses and as a backup.

Now that the R5 is on big discount and the 5dsr next to impossible to buy new, i find myself thinking and r5 might be "just fine" but i really did like the upsizing and sharpening ability of the 5dsr files for finest details alone.

I also had, and just loved how it felt to work with, the 1Dx2 and especially the 1Dx3. Then for a year the R3 but also sold it and those knowing that an R5 mk II and/or "R1" will really be what i want in the mirrorless range and am fine with my GFX kit for the time being even though it is NO WHERE NEAR as fun to use as the 1Dx3 was or the R3.




Dec 28, 2023 at 11:33 PM
garyvot
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


I never had the good fortune to own a 5DsR (or rather, I never had an actual need for one as a PJ/sports photographer), but I do remember reviewing some RAW files that had been posted by DPR and being blown away by the 1:1 detail and microcontrast on offer.

In case others have not seen this, this video by Scott at Tin House Studio (professional food photography) might be worth a watch:

https://youtu.be/Phie5y_pv5M?feature=shared



Dec 30, 2023 at 01:32 PM
Jeff
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


stanj wrote:
Had the 5DsR since it came out, got the R5 when that one came out, immediately sold the 5DsR and got another R5. The few pixels could not make up for the other overall improvements, whether it's shooting landscapes or people. YMMV.


This.

I can't wait to replace the 5Ds (hopefully soon!).

That being said, I always find these questions (like the OP's) entertaining, and it reminds me of audiophile forums where people argue about the coloration of music from DACs, swear cables make a difference, etc. Unless you A/B a comparison with identical conditions/settings/processing, there are so many factors that can influence the 'look' of a portrait, certainly not the least of which is the lens used. The files certainly are different, however I'd not likely be able to guess the camera looking at the images typically posted on the web, especially since they've been processed.



Dec 30, 2023 at 05:10 PM
brianbeatty
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


I own/shoot both the 5DSR and R5 regularly. The R5 is the all around better option. Lighter, better focusing, stunning video. But - the 5DSR has the superior image quality for what I do, which is landscape on a tripod with the shutter release cable. Detail is better and color is better. I've compared numerous images side by side with the same identical lens and keep finding this result to be true.

That said, if you like other types of photography, esp. portraits, then the R5 is better. I use it for all my paid portrait gigs and the 5DSR is in my car for emergencies only. Hope that helps!



Jan 05, 2024 at 01:26 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


brianbeatty wrote:
I own/shoot both the 5DSR and R5 regularly. The R5 is the all around better option. Lighter, better focusing, stunning video. But - the 5DSR has the superior image quality for what I do, which is landscape on a tripod with the shutter release cable. Detail is better and color is better. I've compared numerous images side by side with the same identical lens and keep finding this result to be true.

That said, if you like other types of photography, esp. portraits, then the R5 is better. I use it for all my paid portrait gigs and the 5DSR
...Show more

That is the main reason I'm still using my 5DsR — its image quality and performance for things like landscape photography is excellent, and the ways in which the R5 is better don't have any significant effect on that.

If I did not have such a camera and was buying for the first time, I'm pretty sure that I'd get a R5 rather than a used 5DsR if cost wasn't an issue. But the value proposition of switching to the R5 from an existing 5DsR isn't there for what I do.



Jan 05, 2024 at 05:40 PM
snapsy
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


brianbeatty wrote:
I own/shoot both the 5DSR and R5 regularly. The R5 is the all around better option. Lighter, better focusing, stunning video. But - the 5DSR has the superior image quality for what I do, which is landscape on a tripod with the shutter release cable. Detail is better and color is better. I've compared numerous images side by side with the same identical lens and keep finding this result to be true.

That said, if you like other types of photography, esp. portraits, then the R5 is better. I use it for all my paid portrait gigs and the 5DSR
...Show more

That is an interesting observation. I've never seen a direct comparison between the two cameras. Any chance you could share an identically-shot sample between the two?



Jan 05, 2024 at 06:57 PM
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