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Canon 5Ds R vs R5

  
 
brianbeatty
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Yeah sure thing. I actually made a video comparing my 5dsr and R5 to the Fuji GFX 50s II. Here’s the link if you’re interested: https://youtu.be/aIMgrqkwik8?si=Wu4pWINtbPA2K4FN

The biggest difference I saw between the R5 and the other two wasn’t so much the resolution (though the other two definitely had a bit more), but rather the color. The R5 seems much more grey/yellowish with really muted oranges and reds. Probably better for skin tones, but not as great for landscape. The images in the video I even tried my best to equalize a little for that shift in tones, but it was consistent.

Again don’t misinterpret me - the R5 is a superb camera and excellent for all use cases. But the 5dsr is a hair better for my use IMO.



Jan 06, 2024 at 03:49 PM
Tony Ross
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


I owned a 5Ds for a while. It had an AA filter, despite being a 50Mp camera. The 5Dsr had that weird "cancelling" AA filter (had that on a Nikon D800e, and was never completely happy with it).

I believe the R5 has no AA filter, which would lead me to expect it to have better resolution than either the 5Ds or 5Dsr. I don't want an AA filter on any high resolution sensor.



Jan 06, 2024 at 04:38 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Tony Ross wrote:
I owned a 5Ds for a while. It had an AA filter, despite being a 50Mp camera. The 5Dsr had that weird "cancelling" AA filter (had that on a Nikon D800e, and was never completely happy with it).

I believe the R5 has no AA filter, which would lead me to expect it to have better resolution than either the 5Ds or 5Dsr. I don't want an AA filter on any high resolution sensor.


Hmmm…

First, the R5 does have an AA filter, IIRC.

Second, I spent some significant time comparing raw files from the 5Ds and 5DsR before I settled on the latter back when these cameras were released. The IQ differences were minuscule and reduced to almost non-existent after post-processing that was designed for the respective cameras. (I essentially decided that it really didn’t make any difference which model one got. Both produced extremely detailed images.)

I wonder what about it made you not “happy?”

For those comparing cameras with different sensor resolutions, the difference between 45MP and 50MP is virtually invisible. If ou calculate the resulting image sizes from the two at the same resolution, the difference is tiny. If you instead calculate the different resolutions at a common magnification size, they are not very different.



Jan 06, 2024 at 04:54 PM
Gunzorro
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


BokehBeauty wrote:
Thank you, what do you mean by the following sentence

Also, my most liked lenses are Zeiss ZE. How is manual focusing on the 5Ds(R)? On the 5D Mk II I had the EG-S focusing screen.


The 5Ds would provide slight smoothing of contrast/details due to its filter.

I love ZE lenses too, but the 5Ds and 5DsR are not much better at critical focusing than older 1Ds3 (although better viewfinder and rear screen details). I prefer the Canon R and more recent cameras, such as Sony a7R4, for precision magnified focusing.



Jan 07, 2024 at 12:00 PM
BokehBeauty
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Gunzorro wrote:
The 5Ds would provide slight smoothing of contrast/details due to its filter.

I love ZE lenses too, but the 5Ds and 5DsR are not much better at critical focusing than older 1Ds3 (although better viewfinder and rear screen details). I prefer the Canon R and more recent cameras, such as Sony a7R4, for precision magnified focusing.


Thank you. My desire died with this message

Peter Figen wrote:
Manual focus on a 5DSR. That's funny. Ain't gonna happen. The focusing screen is useless. You need to use Live View on the rear LCD or autofocus.



Jan 07, 2024 at 01:46 PM
garyvot
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


BokehBeauty wrote:
Thank you. My desire died with this message



It is too bad Canon abandoned interchangeable focusing screens on later 1- and 5-seies cameras. I used to use the Ee-S Super Precision Matte screen at times in my 5D and 1Ds II bodies. Made manual focusing with fast primes much easier.

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART126145



Jan 07, 2024 at 04:13 PM
BokehBeauty
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


garyvot wrote:
It is too bad Canon abandoned interchangeable focusing screens on later 1- and 5-seies cameras. I used to use the Ee-S Super Precision Matte screen at times in my 5D and 1Ds II bodies. Made manual focusing with fast primes much easier.

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART126145


Yes, I wouldn’t have been able to do quick and reliable manual focusing without the EG-S screen on my 5D MkII. My complaint, it did eat VF brightness.



Jan 08, 2024 at 08:59 AM
boldcolors
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


For what it is worth I traded my R6 -> 5DSr a few months ago. Mainly because i needed more megapixels (and can't afford an R5) but also because I prefer the look from older Canons. Makes my editing easier. It's not a myth, very much real and has partly to do with how Canon designed their CFAs and profiles back then. Primary colors were more punchy right out of the gate with - depending on taste - a more pleasing palette. Especially old-timers < Digic 5

As you might expect though by reading my nick I like vivid colors and mostly that old-school technicolor-look that we used to get from Canon back in the days. Pentax still has that approach btw.

Canons cameras today are state-of-the art and files are cleaner than ever but to me the files look pale/gray and too contrasty/crushed. Clinical and boring if you will. Goldenwarm biased "Canon colors" with that filmic smooth roll-off are truly a thing of the past and one needs to focus more on post processing with modern files. Otherwise they just look artifical and 2D.

That is sad and in a way backwards.



Jan 09, 2024 at 02:57 AM
snapsy
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


boldcolors wrote:
For what it is worth I traded my R6 -> 5DSr a few months ago. Mainly because i needed more megapixels (and can't afford an R5) but also because I prefer the look from older Canons. Makes my editing easier. It's not a myth, very much real and has partly to do with how Canon designed their CFAs and profiles back then. Primary colors were more punchy right out of the gate with - depending on taste - a more pleasing palette. Especially old-timers < Digic 5

As you might expect though by reading my nick I like vivid colors and
...Show more

Many said the same about the 5DS and bodies of similar generations, that they were the ones with more permissive CFAs and less color selectivity, relative to older bodies like the original 5D.



Jan 09, 2024 at 03:29 AM
boldcolors
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


snapsy wrote:
Many said the same about the 5DS and bodies of similar generations, that they were the ones with more permissive CFAs and less color selectivity, relative to older bodies like the original 5D.


Yes, compared to older models like the old champ 5D Classic this is true. The 5Ds/r did most likely get less steep filtering in the CFA to allow more light/less noise. If I remember correctly the metamerism score over at DXO was quite "poor" compared to older generations. That said, the 50 mp sensor is still one of Canons very best with great color rendition and hue resolution compared to what we see today. And one does have to separate between "accurate" colors and pleasing.

Then we have Adobe of course. They have changed the color tables for newer cameras as well. I mean, download a file from a Canon R5 for example, open it in LR and slam "Adobe Color" on the file. Supposed to be a general color profile but way to often all I see is a bleach bypass effect.

But then again, my eyes are made for bright colors :-) Or to put it as Paul Simon:

"Kodachrome
They give us those nice bright colors
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world's a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a Nikon camera - I love to take a photograph
So mama, don't take my Kodachrome away"









Jan 09, 2024 at 04:58 AM
 


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gdanmitchell
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


snapsy wrote:
Many said the same about the 5DS and bodies of similar generations, that they were the ones with more permissive CFAs and less color selectivity, relative to older bodies like the original 5D.


People have said that when EVERY new version of a photography thing was introduced. (To be fair, people have also over-rated the improvements in virtually EVERY new thing, too. There’s more than one way to succumb to preconceptions.)

My experience is that new versions of things (in photography and other endeavors) are almost always improvements over the old versions. (There are a few exceptions, but they are pretty rare.) Yet there’s a persistent thought in human societies holding that older things were “classics” and therefore better than newer versions. I’m not a psychologist or sociologist, but my uninformed speculation is that there’s some Darwinian advantage in responding conservatively to The New that persists in some individuals’ thinking.

(The obvious counterpoint is that is also a persistent percentage of society that is the “early adopter” type that seems to see the advantages of every new thing as being remarkable and irresistibly compelling.)

My experience is that newer versions of things are almost (though not quite always, on balance) better than the older versions. That has certainly been my experience with 20 years of Canon digital cameras. Some of the older cameras were remarkable when first introduced. (My original 5D was such a camera.) But there’s no continuing “magic” in these cameras, and their files aren’t “better” than those of newer cameras. (In some cases, I think that folks just need to learn the ideal ways to handle those newer files.)

I do not have the R5 since I decided (for reasons I won’t recount here) that it doesn’t provide a compelling advantage over my 5DsR for the photography that I mostly do with that camera. I believe that the R5 is “better,” and for some people it is better enough to move to it from an older camera, just not at this point in my case. So while I’m not a “New Thing Is Remarkably Better Than Old Thing” person, I have yet to see any indication of magic in older digital camera files that makes them better than newer cameras.

The truth? The new thing is almost always an improvement over the old thing, though it is rarely as earth-shaking of a difference as the true believers hope.

The R5 seems like a fine camera, and if I didn’t have the 5DsR and was looking for something new it would be very appealing. (Or if my particular photography was weighted toward the strengths of the R5…) I’m strongly skeptical of any claim that the files from the R5 are somehow deficient compared to to the 5DsR, aside from the small, inconsequential difference in MP.



Jan 09, 2024 at 10:49 AM
AmbientMike
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5




brianbeatty wrote:
Yeah sure thing. I actually made a video comparing my 5dsr and R5 to the Fuji GFX 50s II. Here’s the link if you’re interested: https://youtu.be/aIMgrqkwik8?si=Wu4pWINtbPA2K4FN

The biggest difference I saw between the R5 and the other two wasn’t so much the resolution (though the other two definitely had a bit more), but rather the color. The R5 seems much more grey/yellowish with really muted oranges and reds. Probably better for skin tones, but not as great for landscape. The images in the video I even tried my best to equalize a little for that shift in tones, but it
...Show more

That's interesting, used 20D more recently and it doesn't blow out the red channel like newer bodies. Before anyone goes nuts saying Canon is pumping up the reds, I 1st noticed this on m4/3. So that's probably an advantage on portraits, and a reason some people like the 5D, wondering if the R5 is going back to this



Jan 09, 2024 at 11:12 AM
AmbientMike
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Never really got into the latest gear, very happy using film OM-1 before digital came along.

I guess you could say af is "better," one mf plastic body early on developed a crack, even though I didn't feel it had been used hard. Hesitant to get plastic cameras after that and none of the pro cameras like medium and large format had af anyways. The digital aps cameras have been extremely tough, tougher than I ever expected though, even if the rebels are a bit more plastic



Jan 09, 2024 at 11:18 AM
boldcolors
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


gdanmitchell wrote:
My experience is that new versions of things (in photography and other endeavors) are almost always improvements over the old versions. (There are a few exceptions, but they are pretty rare.) Yet there’s a persistent thought in human societies holding that older things were “classics” and therefore better than newer versions. I’m not a psychologist or sociologist, but my uninformed speculation is that there’s some Darwinian advantage in responding conservatively to The New that persists in some individuals’ thinking.


I am sure a lot can be studied here. Just as nostalgia can be appreciated because it reminds us of a time when we maybe were happier, I don't know :-)

That said...as for color rendition I do appreciate the older bodies more and to this day I have not been able to replicate that look in any modern Canon camera. The main question is.... how important is it? For me it is very important since I rate color reproduction in a camera extremely high. Higher than DR, ISO noise and sharpness. That is why I have no problems at all shooting with a 7D for example. Technically inferoior to modern cameras but it has a certain color pop that reminds me of technicolor. Turns out it has not been easy to get that look consistently in post processing. Some people see this difference, some simply don't. Or don't care. OR they will strip the file anyway and build the image from scratch with LUTs, selective color editing and what not.

This is the ONLY reason I still prefer older Canons. I am fully aware that newer cameras are technical improvements. Reminds me a bit of audiophiles still preferring vinyl. "There is something in the sound. Deeper, richer" :-) I can relate.









Jan 10, 2024 at 04:49 AM
Jeff
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


stanj wrote:
The few pixels could not make up for the other overall improvements...

PhilPDX wrote:
For me it's exactly the opposite. I had both the 5Ds and R5, and sold the latter because its image quality wasn't on par with the 5Ds while at the same time having an abysmal battery life.

-Phil

Not even remotely my experience after years of shooting with both cameras. I cannot think of one, single aspect of image quality that the 5Ds exceeds that of the R5 except for mathematical resolution. And that, for my shooting, is easily eclipsed by the R5's increased image quality in all other aspects, especially in relation to DR.

Of course, your mileage certainly seems to vary.



Feb 11, 2024 at 11:55 PM
CCoppola82
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Late to this thread. I have way too many cameras to begin wtih. When I see a new toy for a great deal I have a hard time passing it up. I have an Eos R, 5dsr, 1dx, and 5d “classic”. I’ve had them all for a while now and they all fit a different use case or mood. I have never really seen the point in comparing their IQ or color or anything until recently when I was bored and curious.

What I can say with certainty is the CFA is different in all of them. Ironically the worst in my opinion is the R. Hopefully this was addressed in the R5 and R6 series, but I continue to see “green cast” posts about them. When viewing side by side with any of the others, it has a noticeably green/yellow cast even at equal WB. A simple nudging toward magenta does not fix this. That being said, it’s a bit like comparing paint colors in the store. Take 3 hours looking at 4 varieties of blue in the same value range and can’t decide. In reality you would never tell the difference or complain when it’s on your wall at home. Also, if you don’t shoot the cameras side by side you might think we are crazy for pointing this out because you can’t see it until you compare.

The “magic” of the 5d Classic. Hmm. It’s real. Sort of. Looking at identical files, my SUSPICION is that canon very intelligently manipulated the processing to work within the limited parameters. They bumped the luminance in the orange/skin tone colors and reduced slightly in the blues/cyan. This sort of gives a natural contrast curve where the warm colors are illuminated and jump forward where the cool colors are “heavier” and recede. This is how we want the eye to work. Warm colors come forward, cools recede. It’s also got great acutance with the weak AA filter. It just has a crisp look. However, it is low in resolution.

The 5dsr does not have that same luminance adjustment and is likely my 2nd favorite sensor next to the 5d. Colors are accurate and both resolution and acutance are really high. That’s actually a pretty remarkable achievement considering that has been a fairly constant trade off in image making since film days. Think Tri-x acutance vs TMax resolution.

The Eos R is actually somewhere in the middle. Very utilitarian for basic work. I don’t love the color or handling of the camera so it’s rarely used…but it works well for when I want to be lazy or for work purposes.

I know I side tracked a lot but those are my experiences with these cameras. Tbh, I just grab whichever is closest sometimes and they all take a worthy photo of whatever I put in front of it. Arguing about which is 5% better than the other is a moot point especially since most people print maybe 10 shots a year at most anyway.

Just grab what you’ve got and make it work.



Feb 15, 2024 at 11:37 PM
garyvot
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


For those commenting on the "muted, grey/yellowish" colors from the R5 relative to the 5Ds or older models, that sounds an awful lot like a side-effect of using the default "Adobe Color" profile in ACR or Lightroom. For whatever reason, Adobe's default treatment for newer Canon bodies tends to be flat and desaturated, and not representative of the cameras' true character. (As an aside, the last Canon body I owned for which I genuinely preferred Adobe's profiles was the 1D Mark IV.)

At minimum if using an Adobe workflow, I would use one of Adobe's camera-matching profiles for comparison (I tend to prefer 'Camera Standard' as a starting point). Fortunately, Adobe's camera-matching profiles are a much closer match to the camera's default JPEG output and what you would see from DPP.



Feb 16, 2024 at 05:54 AM
AmbientMike
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


I use DPP for better colors, highlights + sharpness better, too, vs one popular paid raw processor


Feb 16, 2024 at 01:21 PM
BManz
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


Since I got the R5 bodies, I don't often use the 5DsR much except as a backup or when I need one of the R5 cameras to do video while doing stills with the other and need two higher res still bodies in hand. The exception to run the 5DsR over the R5 is when I need to do long exposures; the 5DsR works better when I'm in the boonies because the batteries last longer in that situation.

Arguably, with a sharp macro lens or the 200/f1.8, I see a very little bit more detail at 100% viewing from the 5DsR vs the R5, same subject/exposure/lighting. The R5 is otherwise perfect for all my portrait, group, sports, nature and travel shooting with/without grip as needed. Mirrorless has spoiled me, for sure.



Feb 16, 2024 at 01:45 PM
Danpbphoto
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Canon 5Ds R vs R5


BokehBeauty wrote:
Thank you. That’s the end of this GAS episode.

Not to be dismissive of your comment or seem negative but I have 2@5DSr's and I NEVER have used "Live". I manual focus on ANYTHING close up and have NEVER had any issues. I rely 100% on the VF and the lock focus tone. Not implying they are any better than "LIve View", just the minimal affirmation of "focus lock" The AF point in the VF and tone, are just saying IMHE(experience).
Dan



Edited on Feb 16, 2024 at 04:37 PM · View previous versions



Feb 16, 2024 at 02:24 PM
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