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Archive 2023 · Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132

  
 
Mark Metternich
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p.2 #1Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Amazingly beautiful image. Thank you for sharing it!
Jul 26, 2023 at 08:38 AM
Leah Hallett
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p.2 #2Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Hey thank you everyone for the kind words, I really appreciate it! (I tried to do a multi-quote to each of you, but I couldn't figure out how - I clicked the multi-quote button? I'm dumb sometimes!)

Leah
Jul 26, 2023 at 12:53 PM
wuyu91410
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p.2 #3Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
This is very beautiful! Impressive!
Jul 27, 2023 at 01:04 PM
another_mikey
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p.2 #4Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Leah,

Firstly, should be no issue posting here. I have Featured Image in this forum twice - both times posting astro images, so no worries there. I expect you might achieve that with this as well

These 2 look quite nice to me. It is common to be most critical of your own work when others do not see the flaws unless you adamantly point them out first - I am often guilty of that myself. It is hard to judge the star quality at this resolution, perhaps I see a little bit of an issue. I shoot with the same camera and some similar filters from Antlia when shooting wider nebulae like this and have not noticed a vibration issue. I would also think if that was the cause you would expect the problem to be across the frame not just in the corners. It could perhaps be a backspacing issue - not familiar if the Z4 OTA has a critical backspacing somewhere in that imaging train or not.

In any case, these are both excellent - all the more so for your short time in the hobby! Great to see such deep images from suburban skies, nothing like imaging in narrowband it really is a game changer. I would definitely continue to post these with no qualms at all.

ML
Jul 28, 2023 at 10:35 AM
wsbrown
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p.2 #5Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
another_mikey wrote:
Leah,

Firstly, should be no issue posting here. I have Featured Image in this forum twice - both times posting astro images, so no worries there. I expect you might achieve that with this as well

These 2 look quite nice to me. It is common to be most critical of your own work when others do not see the flaws unless you adamantly point them out first - I am often guilty of that myself. It is hard to judge the star quality at this resolution, perhaps I see a little bit of an issue. I shoot with the same
...Show more →

As mentioned above, I believe this is is definitely backspacing. It looks like you need to add some. I would add some incrementally in the form of shims until it looks right. You should be within 2-3mm of being correct.

Even still, nice shot and great setup.
Jul 29, 2023 at 07:05 PM
Leah Hallett
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p.2 #6Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
wsbrown wrote:
another_mikey wroteLeah,

Firstly, should be no issue posting here. I have Featured Image in this forum twice - both times posting astro images, so no worries there. I expect you might achieve that with this as well

These 2 look quite nice to me. It is common to be most critical of your own work when others do not see the flaws unless you adamantly point them out first - I am often guilty of that myself. It is hard to judge the star quality at this resolution, perhaps I see a little bit of an issue. I shoot with the same camera and some similar filters from Antlia when shooting wider nebulae like this and have not noticed a vibration issue. I would also think if that was the cause you would expect the problem to be across the frame not just in the corners. It could perhaps be a backspacing issue - not familiar if the Z4 OTA has a critical backspacing somewhere in that imaging train or not.

In any case, these are both excellent - all the more so for your short time in the hobby! Great to see such deep images from suburban skies, nothing like imaging in narrowband it really is a game changer. I would definitely continue to post these with no qualms at all.

ML
As mentioned above, I believe this is is definitely backspacing. It looks like you need to add some. I would add some incrementally in the form of shims until it looks right. You should be within 2-3mm of being correct.

Even still, nice shot and great setup.


Thanks guys, appreciate the comments. The only thing is the Sharpstar Z4 is a Petzval Astrograph that shouldn't need backspacing. Even though as you say the bad stars in the corners would point to exactly that:

https://www.testar.com.au/products/sharpstar-z4-apo-refractor-f-5-5

If I were to use shims - what are they - and where would I put them?

Thanks again,
Leah






Jul 30, 2023 at 09:22 AM
wsbrown
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p.2 #7Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Leah Hallett wrote:
wsbrown wrote
another_mikey wroteLeah,

Firstly, should be no issue posting here. I have Featured Image in this forum twice - both times posting astro images, so no worries there. I expect you might achieve that with this as well

These 2 look quite nice to me. It is common to be most critical of your own work when others do not see the flaws unless you adamantly point them out first - I am often guilty of that myself. It is hard to judge the star quality at this resolution, perhaps I see a little bit of an issue. I shoot with the same camera and some similar filters from Antlia when shooting wider nebulae like this and have not noticed a vibration issue. I would also think if that was the cause you would expect the problem to be across the frame not just in the corners. It could perhaps be a backspacing issue - not familiar if the Z4 OTA has a critical backspacing somewhere in that imaging train or not.

In any case, these are both excellent - all the more so for your short time in the hobby! Great to see such deep images from suburban skies, nothing like imaging in narrowband it really is a game changer. I would definitely continue to post these with no qualms at all.

ML
As mentioned above, I believe this is is definitely backspacing. It looks like you need to add some. I would add some incrementally in the form of shims until it looks right. You should be within 2-3mm of being correct.

Even still, nice shot and great setup.
Thanks guys, appreciate the comments. The only thing is the Sharpstar Z4 is a Petzval Astrograph that shouldn't need backspacing. Even though as you say the bad stars in the corners would point to exactly that:

https://www.testar.com.au/products/sharpstar-z4-apo-refractor-f-5-5

If I were to use shims - what are they - and where would I put them?

Thanks again,
Leah



I would assume the sensor still has to be 77mm from the flange as that is where the focal plane is shown on the Z4's drawings?

Here is a set of shims, just sandwich them inbetween any of your tubes, filter wheels, camera, ect..

https://www.highpointscientific.com/baader-15-piece-spacer-ring-set-t2ring?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=BAD-T2RING&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18147526044&utm_content=142198545324&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9qWMyuu2gAMVN6VaBR3a1gcwEAQYASABEgLIMvD_BwE

Jul 30, 2023 at 10:38 AM
Leah Hallett
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p.2 #8Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132


I would assume the sensor still has to be 77mm from the flange as that is where the focal plane is shown on the Z4's drawings?

Here is a set of shims, just sandwich them inbetween any of your tubes, filter wheels, camera, ect..

https://www.highpointscientific.com/baader-15-piece-spacer-ring-set-t2ring?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=BAD-T2RING&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18147526044&utm_content=142198545324&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9qWMyuu2gAMVN6VaBR3a1gcwEAQYASABEgLIMvD_BwE




If I remember right, I did have a 10mm or 15mm spacer in the image train to begin with and found that I couldn’t get the guide stars in focus no matter what I tried. What I understood was the distance from the OAG prism to the guide camera sensor needs to be the same as the distance from the prism to the main camera sensor. Which worked at about 55.5 mm after I removed the spacer and moved the prism up a tad. I guess I couldn’t get to that distance with the spacer.

These are much smaller spacers so maybe that will work! I’ll get some on order. The idea of unscrewing everything to install them though will be a fight or flight response!

Leah
Jul 30, 2023 at 03:01 PM
wsbrown
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p.2 #9Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Leah Hallett wrote:
Earlier quoteI would assume the sensor still has to be 77mm from the flange as that is where the focal plane is shown on the Z4's drawings?

Here is a set of shims, just sandwich them inbetween any of your tubes, filter wheels, camera, ect..

https://www.highpointscientific.com/baader-15-piece-spacer-ring-set-t2ring?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=BAD-T2RING&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18147526044&utm_content=142198545324&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9qWMyuu2gAMVN6VaBR3a1gcwEAQYASABEgLIMvD_BwE
If I remember right, I did have a 10mm or 15mm spacer in the image train to begin with and found that I couldn’t get the guide stars in focus no matter what I tried. What I understood was the distance from the OAG prism to the guide camera sensor needs to be the same as the distance from the prism to the main camera sensor. Which worked at about 55.5 mm after I removed the spacer and moved the prism up a tad. I guess I couldn’t get to that distance with the spacer.

These are much smaller
...Show more →

It has been a little over a year since I did my last astrophotography. I have no experience with an OAG, I used a small seperate scope mounted on top. Flatteners with adjustable backspacing are a livesaver, but being a Petzval that's not an option. If you get tired of figuring out optimal backspacing for a refractor get a newtonian astrograph and tackle proper collimation...
Jul 30, 2023 at 04:29 PM
Leah Hallett
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p.2 #10Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
wsbrown wrote:
Leah Hallett wrote
Earlier quoteI would assume the sensor still has to be 77mm from the flange as that is where the focal plane is shown on the Z4's drawings?

Here is a set of shims, just sandwich them inbetween any of your tubes, filter wheels, camera, ect..

https://www.highpointscientific.com/baader-15-piece-spacer-ring-set-t2ring?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=BAD-T2RING&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18147526044&utm_content=142198545324&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9qWMyuu2gAMVN6VaBR3a1gcwEAQYASABEgLIMvD_BwE
If I remember right, I did have a 10mm or 15mm spacer in the image train to begin with and found that I couldn’t get the guide stars in focus no matter what I tried. What I understood was the distance from the OAG prism to the guide camera sensor needs to be the same as the distance from the prism to the main camera sensor. Which worked at about 55.5 mm after I removed the spacer and moved the prism up a tad. I guess I couldn’t get to that distance with the spacer.

These are much smaller spacers so maybe that will work! I’ll get some on order. The idea of unscrewing everything to install them though will be a fight or flight response!

Leah
It has been a little over a year since I did my last astrophotography. I have no experience with an OAG, I used a small seperate scope mounted on top. Flatteners with adjustable backspacing are a livesaver, but being a Petzval that's not an option. If you get tired of figuring out optimal backspacing for a refractor get a newtonian astrograph and tackle proper collimation...



I’d love to see a pic of your Newtonian setup if you still have it all together…and of course also the time

Leah

Jul 30, 2023 at 05:45 PM
wsbrown
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p.2 #11Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Leah Hallett wrote:
wsbrown wrote
Leah Hallett wrote
Earlier quoteI would assume the sensor still has to be 77mm from the flange as that is where the focal plane is shown on the Z4's drawings?

Here is a set of shims, just sandwich them inbetween any of your tubes, filter wheels, camera, ect..

https://www.highpointscientific.com/baader-15-piece-spacer-ring-set-t2ring?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=BAD-T2RING&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18147526044&utm_content=142198545324&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9qWMyuu2gAMVN6VaBR3a1gcwEAQYASABEgLIMvD_BwE
If I remember right, I did have a 10mm or 15mm spacer in the image train to begin with and found that I couldn’t get the guide stars in focus no matter what I tried. What I understood was the distance from the OAG prism to the guide camera sensor needs to be the same as the distance from the prism to the main camera sensor. Which worked at about 55.5 mm after I removed the spacer and moved the prism up a tad. I guess I couldn’t get to that distance with the spacer.

These are much smaller spacers so maybe that will work! I’ll get some on order. The idea of unscrewing everything to install them though will be a fight or flight response!

Leah
It has been a little over a year since I did my last astrophotography. I have no experience with an OAG, I used a small seperate scope mounted on top. Flatteners with adjustable backspacing are a livesaver, but being a Petzval that's not an option. If you get tired of figuring out optimal backspacing for a refractor get a newtonian astrograph and tackle proper collimation...
I’d love to see a pic of your Newtonian setup if you still have it all together…and of course also the time

Leah



It was a bit of sarcasm as collimating a Newtonian that is out to the degree of accuracy needed for astrophotography can induce insanity. Although they are a cheaper objective inch for inch vs a refractor and fast.

I sold my gear last year to pursue normal photography. Though, I think it is more of a break than getting out of it entirely, as I see myself coming back to it eventually. Technology and gear have changed a lot just in the past few years, so I think it will be beneficial.

Here is my Flickr astrophotography album, my best setup was an 8" newtonian astrograph with a Starizona Nexus reducer / coma corrector, the put me at F3.3.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191048831@N07/albums/72157718149297581
Jul 30, 2023 at 07:13 PM
Leah Hallett
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p.2 #12Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Wow! You are really good, fantastic imaging. In the words of Steely Dan, get back, Jack, Do it again! Not sure where that popped into my head from, but you should re-invest in the newer tech.

Leah

Edited on Jul 31, 2023 at 07:05 AM · View previous versions
Jul 30, 2023 at 09:13 PM
skyshinphoto
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p.2 #13Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Waaaay beyond my level of astro photography...absolutely stunning, thank you for sharing!!
Jul 31, 2023 at 12:15 AM
DanielJStein
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p.2 #14Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Leah Hallett wrote:
I reimaged this Elephant Trunk Nebula last night after changing out the camera fan to the noctua and all the anti-vibration fixins. The stars look a little bit better...

Ok, now I'll leave everyone alone!


Leah these are insane!!!!!!!
Aug 03, 2023 at 11:45 AM
ftllens
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p.2 #15Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
The color processing are beautiful as well. I think I might get your exact setup and try this year myself!
Aug 05, 2023 at 05:11 AM
Leah Hallett
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p.2 #16Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
skyshinphoto wrote:
Waaaay beyond my level of astro photography...absolutely stunning, thank you for sharing!!


Thanks very much for the kind words, I appreciate it.
Leah

DanielJStein wrote:
Leah these are insane!!!!!!!


I hope that means you like them Thank you!
Leah

ftllens wrote:
The color processing are beautiful as well. I think I might get your exact setup and try this year myself!


If you do pursue this exact setup, you should read the thread I started when I was in paralysis about what to purchase. At the time I had a fully automatic Stellina which was underwhelming and you had no control at all. It did EVERYTHING for you. I wanted to do...well, more:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/864541-from-scratch-setup-for-deep-sky-imaging-help/
Aug 05, 2023 at 08:04 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.2 #17Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Leah, this is astronomical!
I did astro photography long ago when a ccd camera was all I could use. I took images of Horsehead Nebula from a Meade LX200 12- SCT.
This is a phenominal image!
Dan

PS: A FM member is an astrophotographer/astronomer (Patrick Dixon) who works back-n-forth between the Johns Hopkins Univ Hubble Space Lab and the site in England(James Webb). He is VERY adept at this. Hope he will chime in. He was instrumental in the latest space telescope for imaging.
Aug 09, 2023 at 12:45 PM
Leah Hallett
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p.2 #18Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Danpbphoto wrote:
Leah, this is astronomical!
I did astro photography long ago when a ccd camera was all I could use. I took images of Horsehead Nebula from a Meade LX200 12- SCT.
This is a phenominal image!
Dan

PS: A FM member is an astrophotographer/astronomer (Patrick Dixon) who works back-n-forth between the Johns Hopkins Univ Hubble Space Lab and the site in England(James Webb). He is VERY adept at this. Hope he will chime in. He was instrumental in the latest space telescope for imaging.


Thanks very much Dan. I just watched a documentary on the building of the James Webb Telescope - talk about a feat of science and engineering!

Leah

Aug 09, 2023 at 03:19 PM
Danpbphoto
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p.2 #19Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Leah Hallett wrote:
Danpbphoto wroteLeah, this is astronomical!
I did astro photography long ago when a ccd camera was all I could use. I took images of Horsehead Nebula from a Meade LX200 12- SCT.
This is a phenominal image!
Dan

PS: A FM member is an astrophotographer/astronomer (Patrick Dixon) who works back-n-forth between the Johns Hopkins Univ Hubble Space Lab and the site in England(James Webb). He is VERY adept at this. Hope he will chime in. He was instrumental in the latest space telescope for imaging.
Thanks very much Dan. I just watched a documentary on the building of the James Webb Telescope - talk about a feat of science and engineering!

Leah


Thank you Leah!
Your "set up" is one of the best I have ever seen!

Hope you will post more.
Dan

Aug 10, 2023 at 09:29 AM
DanielJStein
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p.2 #20Lion's Head Nebula Sh2-132
Leah Hallett wrote:
carlameeske wroteI don't smell anything! The stars look fantastic to me.
They are a bit stinky in the far corners....kinda egg shape with a tail.


This could be a backfocus issue. You can use calipers to ensure your backfocus is dead on. I would also recommend shooting flats.
Aug 10, 2023 at 05:22 PM
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